Canon EOS-R8, EOS-R50 And New Lenses Announced

[Kisaha]

Another pub type discussion, sans the nice ales you get there and the smelly carpet!

The people that need IBIS, won't buy this camera. The people that are happy with APS-C won't..but people that need amazing full frame performance and IQ in the least price new, WILL! You will be surprised to learn how many there are!

This is a 1500$ release, whatever that's translated to your country.

Right now, R6mkII is 3.200€ in my E.U country, the R8 will be probably 1750-1.800€, the analogy will be similar in any country, a significant increase in final price. 3.200 - 1.800 = 1.400€ difference. That is huge..

Not everyone just buys whatever cameras are out there. This is madness..Canon offering such a quality with Clog3 to connect all the dots is unheard of..

I gave you some sales figures also, RP is super successful and popular, the R8 arguably is a much better and more modern camera. Success!

For me it will be a great addition to my collection of cameras. Yes, I wish I could afford the R6mkII, but my next purchase won't be the money maker, so I have limited funds to invest, meanwhile, I still will be able to use it on some projects additionally to my other cameras. Priceless..

[gt3rs]

9 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

One camera was released in 2023, the other was released in 2020. A 2023 camera shouldn't be comparable to a camera released nearly 3 years earlier, regardless of the price.

Canon doesn't deserve a ticker-tape parade for releasing an average camera with one great feature (and several handicaps) just because they priced it lower than a bunch of cameras that are 2-3 years older than it. It's a pretty damning indictment of Canon that people think they do simply for not releasing a lemon.

An entry model camera that was released three years ago! Within 6 to 12 months there will be a FF camera that exceeds what the Canon R8 can do, and probably significantly, while priced competitively. 

 

Are you serious?
We should compare to cameras that may be released in the future and thus we should be here saying that is meh release because it will be surpassed in the future?!? Because you, alias Nostradamus 🙂, thinks that in 6-12 months there will be (and I actually hope so) better cameras in this class?

But yes if you remove the super sampled 4k with no crop 24-60p, the great AF, the fast still fps, the 10 bit log, the good rolling shutter, the hybrid hot shoe, it is a crappy release... but guess what great AF and great 4k 24-60 image with AF is what many people want.  

I have also a prediction then, with the "next 6 to 12 months camera on the same price brackets" people can take artifacts free, rolling shutter free and noise free image, by using 0 space on the card compared to the R8 because it does not exit 😁

You don't like canon and is fine but I really don't get what is your contribution here as it not facts based and only hypothetical future predictions that does not help anybody that needs a camera today. 

Canon has changed a lot on the video side and most of the new release have really good video capacity with great AF:

C70 4k RAW
R5 8K RAW, 4k 120
R5c 8K RAW 60P with Cinema OS
R3 6K RAW 60p
R6, R6 II, R8 super sampled 4k 60 10bit CLog 3
R7 super sampled S35 4k 60 10bit CLog 3

Times are changed from the Canon that was not innovating and holding back tons of features on the video sides. Are these camera perfect no, are their competitive in their respective price bracket yes. Just a few years ago RP and R where really meh released for video.

The fact that a 1500$ gives you most of the feature that the others much more expensive cameras give you is the good story. And let's not discuss on the stills side that for the sports/actions photographer a R8 will do better in many scenarios than 6k$ 1Dx III (and I owned the 1Dx III)

 

[PannySVHS]

Mini Hdmi, no IBIS, great AF for video, FF 4K60, no RAW out, for 1799EUR

vs

Full HDMI, IBIS, great AF for video, S35 4K60, RAW out for 1999EUR

I would take the second one for my needs. I never owned the 1DXIII:)

[gt3rs]

3 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Another pub type discussion, sans the nice ales you get there and the smelly carpet!

The people that need IBIS, won't buy this camera. The people that are happy with APS-C won't..but people that need amazing full frame performance and IQ in the least price new, WILL! You will be surprised to learn how many there are!

This is a 1500$ release, whatever that's translated to your country.

Right now, R6mkII is 3.200€ in my E.U country, the R8 will be probably 1750-1.800€, the analogy will be similar in any country, a significant increase in final price. 3.200 - 1.800 = 1.400€ difference. That is huge..

Not everyone just buys whatever cameras are out there. This is madness..Canon offering such a quality with Clog3 to connect all the dots is unheard of..

I gave you some sales figures also, RP is super successful and popular, the R8 arguably is a much better and more modern camera. Success!

For me it will be a great addition to my collection of cameras. Yes, I wish I could afford the R6mkII, but my next purchase won't be the money maker, so I have limited funds to invest, meanwhile, I still will be able to use it on some projects additionally to my other cameras. Priceless..

This exactly, for the first time you can buy an entry level FF that has great spec and will allow many people to create great content with a fairly "low investment". 

My only concern is the battery that we need to see some test, you can always partially mitigate with a power bank for long takes.
 

[gt3rs]

13 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

I guess I just look at it the other way, I don't consider the crop sensor to be a compromise at all and I use it with FF glass every day; in fact, I did not buy a single new lens for the R7, even my EF-S glass works with it.  I actually consider it a strength since it produces identical IQ as the R5 up to 3200ISO, but with better battery life, better IBIS, and better heat handling.

What I do consider a much bigger compromise is the single card slot, worse ergonomics, no IBIS, etc of the R8 just because it is a FF sensor.

I do agree, no matter who this camera appeals to; consumers win in the end with more choice.

I thinks R7 vs R8 is a much harder call.... R8 has FF, much better rolling shutter 15 vs 30ms "to be confirmed", 4k 60 super sampled but no IBIS and lame battery, maybe worst ergonomics but smaller and lighter.... R7 has IBIS and S35 if you need reach or want to use APS-C lenses but line skipping 4k 60 and pretty severe rolling shutter in HQ.

The good news that they are both available so people can pick the one that fits their needs the most. 

[ade towell]

Looks like a good little b-camera to have in the bag just wouldn't want to rely on it as my main.

The lack of IBIS and tiny battery (why oh why Canon?) make this a definite pass for me, it's not quite an R6 replacement but does make the R6ii look way overpriced. Am very happy with the Panasonic S5ii and all its benefits for my needs and will be selling my R6. I have got too used to the amazing IBIS, full HDMI and great DR of the S5ii to go back to Canon mirrorless.

But as already mentioned more budget choices are always good and encouraged, am sure Canon will sell a lot of these

[Kisaha]

3 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

I thinks R7 vs R8 is a much harder call.... R8 has FF, much better rolling shutter 15 vs 30ms "to be confirmed", 4k 60 super sampled but no IBIS and lame battery, maybe worst ergonomics but smaller and lighter.... R7 has IBIS and S35 if you need reach or want to use APS-C lenses but line skipping 4k 60 and pretty severe rolling shutter in HQ.

The good news that they are both available so people can pick the one that fits their needs the most. 

In my case I believe they will be complement each other pretty nice..

With almost the price of an R6mkII one can have a 2 camera setup covering most bases..

I am still a S35 sympathizer, so the full frame option will be just a bonus for me for the occasional use, and mainly in photography I guess..

Ibis I do not use, external recorders not, the battery is my main concern, and that mainly for disturbing the harmonious workflow!

Of course the overheating will be an issue, if it goes for an hour straight in hot climates I will be alright..

R7 has IBIS which is still a good tool to have, HUGE work time per battery, 2 card slots that you want from your main tool, great recording times and no obvious overheating issues, and I believe that's that..but pretty important differences to categorize the crop camera as a PRO tool..I am not saying that the R8 can't be, I have seen anything in my lifetime(!), but R7 brings more confidence to your pro workflow.

When I was doing event photography I was using 2-3 cameras. For performance videos 3-4 cameras. In any job I am carrying with me 2 cameras (I always have backup options with me). I just can't believe I can do that now with RF for such a low price..

I probably have to sell some NX stuff now! Keep only a couple of bodies and some lenses.

The other side of course is lenses, which is a tragic tale to discuss..I will tell you what I have in NX and why that was one of the most amazing systems for APS-C sensors ( for a dead system that operated in such a small timeframe).

- amazing pro S lenses (16-50 to 150mm from 2-2.8f!! Just unique)

- amazing tiny pancakes, from 16 and on..incredible IQ for tiny packages with great prices.

- great kit lenses, Canon's RF kit lenses are almost laughable..the 16-50 NX was/is tiny with power zoom on the lens(!) and 3.5-5.6f. The 500-200 also is amazing and faster than the new Canon RF-S that announced with the new cameras..I will put here the 12-24 also, as it covers the 3 basic bronze triad (from 12 to 200mm). There are also other kit lenses like the more traditional 18-55mm 3.5-5.6f. I am not sure now, but back then they were the best kit lenses in the industry.

- great pancake native fisheye! I can't stress that much, brilliant oddball lens which I LOVE.

RF-S is not existant for now, and even the new RF 24-50mm is such a joke! 

But I have most of my needs covered already with the EF and RF I already own, so that is not a huge deal, and it is not like I can find everything in just one mount..

So far, the best was/is NX for me! Exactly what I wanted..

[So Ros]

I think for the Canon users who are in need of this camera, they should definitely buy it as it suits them.   What works great for you doesn’t work for everybody here.
 Same for the non-Canon filmmakers out there that need a cam or an extra cam, there are tools out there right now for cheaper prices.  For less then $1500 you can get a “used” XT3-4/OG S5/S1/Gh5s/bmpcc4k/6k/sigma Fp/Fx30.  So many good options out there right now, buy one that suit your needs.

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, So Ros said:

I think for the Canon users who are in need of this camera, they should definitely buy it as it suits them.   What works great for you doesn’t work for everybody here.
 Same for the non-Canon filmmakers out there that need a cam or an extra cam, there are tools out there right now for cheaper prices.  For less then $1500 you can get a “used” XT3-4/OG S5/S1/Gh5s/bmpcc4k/6k/sigma Fp/Fx30.  So many good options out there right now, buy one that suit your needs.

At the end of the day you are right...tons of economical options; but this is an R8 thread so it is still interesting to see different people's perspectives on Canon's latest release. My final verdict is that its an ok camera at its price point, but not the best fit for my needs even at its price point since the R7 is at the same price point.

For me specifically, the FF sensor comes with too many compromises and those compromises are more important to me than the sensor size. If I absolutely had to purchase a FF body today right now I would get the R6II; if price was more important to me then I would get the S5II, there is just no scenario for me where I would get the R8.

Most if not all of the used options on your list don't have useable AF which is far more important to me than sensor size. In a year when you can get the R6II, R8, and the S5II at a decent used price then used will look at lot more attractive.

[Django]

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Of course the overheating will be an issue, if it goes for an hour straight in hot climates I will be alright..

Check out Lok's R8 test, he sticked it in his oven set at 37 degrees Celsius and it ran for an 1h10mn in 4K25p after what his SD was full and he stopped testing it, the new temp meter was only at about 3 bars. The R50 overheated immediately upon turning on after his initial 5mn off warm up. R8 battery life was I think 53mn (you'll have to check) in those conditions which isn't great but not totally bad.

8 hours ago, herein2020 said:

For me specifically, the FF sensor comes with too many compromises and those compromises are more important to me than the sensor size. If I absolutely had to purchase a FF body today right now I would get the R6II; if price was more important to me then I would get the S5II, there is just no scenario for me where I would get the R8.

Totally understandable. Not too many scenarios for the EOSHD crowd to go for an R8, we're not really the target. Places like Cined, Gerald Undone etc haven't even bothered reviewing it. Heck even the R5/R6/R5C barely get any traction. Canon is absolutely hated on by pundits. That said, on the field, or even right here, most Canon users are working pros, shooting silently and getting paid while others circle jerk over their bonus features shooting alleys and trees in glorious anamorphic splendour and wobble free stability. Being slightly facetious here, I think all cameras are pretty great right now compared to just a generation or two ago.

[Kisaha]

and now for something completely different!

First pre-order price here 1.939€ (body only ofcourse)!!

R6mkII is 3.200€, a price for the R8 closer to 1.650 (that I was expecting/hoping the price to be) is almost half the money of the R6mkII. They both are way overpriced for what they are, so I am going to pause for a while..

I do not agree that this is the "wrong" camera for the forum though. It is a comprehensive proposition for 1.500$, just not for 1939€!

In the end, is the placement in the market that matters..a few hundred money(sic) can make or brake a product. Any product.

I was checking these 2 new lenses also..oh my..what a (or two) joke(s)..

The S5iiX and 2 lenses are 3.000$ and the 20-60 is thousands times more usable, and that 50mm 1.8f seems ace..

[So Ros]

11 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Most if not all of the used options on your list don't have useable AF which is far more important to me than sensor size. In a year when you can get the R6II, R8, and the S5II at a decent used price then used will look at lot more attractive.

Cool! I’m speaking to those that don’t need AF as a tool for their projects 100% of the time.  I understand that AF is beneficial for some shooting scenarios but not for every project or every member here. The R8 just got non or ex canon users like me curious but like I said before if I was doing 100% video work, I would rather pony up and buy an S5ii or wait for a used one.  The R8 doesn’t work for me or you but it can definitely work for others here, just gotta deal with its workarounds.  

[newfoundmass]

19 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Are you serious?
We should compare to cameras that may be released in the future and thus we should be here saying that is meh release because it will be surpassed in the future?!? Because you, alias Nostradamus 🙂, thinks that in 6-12 months there will be (and I actually hope so) better cameras in this class?

But yes if you remove the super sampled 4k with no crop 24-60p, the great AF, the fast still fps, the 10 bit log, the good rolling shutter, the hybrid hot shoe, it is a crappy release... but guess what great AF and great 4k 24-60 image with AF is what many people want.  

I have also a prediction then, with the "next 6 to 12 months camera on the same price brackets" people can take artifacts free, rolling shutter free and noise free image, by using 0 space on the card compared to the R8 because it does not exit 😁

You don't like canon and is fine but I really don't get what is your contribution here as it not facts based and only hypothetical future predictions that does not help anybody that needs a camera today. 

Canon has changed a lot on the video side and most of the new release have really good video capacity with great AF:

C70 4k RAW
R5 8K RAW, 4k 120
R5c 8K RAW 60P with Cinema OS
R3 6K RAW 60p
R6, R6 II, R8 super sampled 4k 60 10bit CLog 3
R7 super sampled S35 4k 60 10bit CLog 3

Times are changed from the Canon that was not innovating and holding back tons of features on the video sides. Are these camera perfect no, are their competitive in their respective price bracket yes. Just a few years ago RP and R where really meh released for video.

The fact that a 1500$ gives you most of the feature that the others much more expensive cameras give you is the good story. And let's not discuss on the stills side that for the sports/actions photographer a R8 will do better in many scenarios than 6k$ 1Dx III (and I owned the 1Dx III)

 

Yes, I'm serious. And if you don't think a FF camera at a comparable price point with better specs won't be announced in the next 6 to 12 months then you don't follow the camera industry. 

My comments aren't because I'm a Canon hater, they're because it's an average release with one standout feature. The R7 is a better option, and I gave Canon credit on this forum when it was announced. 

If you're fine spending $1500 on a camera that lacks IBIS, has only one card slot, terrible battery life, poor ergonomics, etc. because it has full frame 4K60p then cool. But your opinion is no more valid than mine. 

[Django]

5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

and now for something completely different!

First pre-order price here 1.939€ (body only ofcourse)!!

R6mkII is 3.200€, a price for the R8 closer to 1.650 (that I was expecting/hoping the price to be) is almost half the money of the R6mkII. They both are way overpriced for what they are, so I am going to pause for a while..

I do not agree that this is the "wrong" camera for the forum though. It is a comprehensive proposition for 1.500$, just not for 1939€!

In the end, is the placement in the market that matters..a few hundred money(sic) can make or brake a product. Any product.

I was checking these 2 new lenses also..oh my..what a (or two) joke(s)..

The S5iiX and 2 lenses are 3.000$ and the 20-60 is thousands times more usable, and that 50mm 1.8f seems ace..

Ouch that hurts! EU has about 30% increase from US prices (20% VAT + 10% markup) for Sony & Canon products. It looks like your country has 40%!

Brazil I think is the worst. I'd advise grey market at that point. 😉 

What is strange and works strongly in the favour of Panasonic is that here their gear is only 19% more than the US. That's less than VAT meaning Panny not only doesn't do a markup, they cut off a percent from their margins for the EU market. Smart strategy that I'm sure pays off!

[Kisaha]

5 hours ago, Django said:

Ouch that hurts! EU has about 30% increase from US prices (20% VAT + 10% markup) for Sony & Canon products. It looks like your country has 40%!

Brazil I think is the worst. I'd advise grey market at that point. 😉 

What is strange and works strongly in the favour of Panasonic is that here their gear is only 19% more than the US. That's less than VAT meaning Panny not only doesn't do a markup, they cut off a percent from their margins for the EU market. Smart strategy that I'm sure pays off!

It won't, but maybe it will! GH4 and 5 were great successes, not other models though..Olympus were selling more for casual use.

now people still using their GH5 cameras and they see no big reason to move to GH6..even in Japan you see that Panasonic is far behind everyone else.. Actually, Panasonic and Fuji didn't have a single camera at the top 10 for 2022, and Fuji sold more cameras in total..

I checked at CVP, is 1925€ for the R8 body only..do you see different prices in France?

R6mkII is 3.150€ in CVP, so not different than my countries prices, they seem like normal EU prices (ok, CVP is 10-20€ cheaper..).

I do not usually support anything grey(!), but I need more the tax/vat benefits anyway..

..and I was so enthusiastic..I am seriously considering going L all the way now, I just have to sell so many things it's unbelievable..

[Kisaha]

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Yes, I'm serious. And if you don't think a FF camera at a comparable price point with better specs won't be announced in the next 6 to 12 months then you don't follow the camera industry. 

My comments aren't because I'm a Canon hater, they're because it's an average release with one standout feature. The R7 is a better option, and I gave Canon credit on this forum when it was announced. 

If you're fine spending $1500 on a camera that lacks IBIS, has only one card slot, terrible battery life, poor ergonomics, etc. because it has full frame 4K60p then cool. But your opinion is no more valid than mine. 

You wouldn't be able to buy anything in your life, ever! Have you ever bought a car??!! That would be a nightmare for you!

1500$ is ace, only it isn't 1.500€ for us Europeans.

IQ and speed are the number 1 in video cameras, and this one has those 2 sorted.

IBIS being so important is just laughable for me..does the Pocket cameras have IBIS? Did your cameras for 3-4 years ago? Your Canon C cameras of yesteryear? The Alexa's of this world? I have to work with GH5 sometimes and they make me work with IBIS and I hated it.

Same with one slot, it isn't preferable, but we were workings with one slot (or 1 film, which was worst!) for decades..

The battery is an issue, but the size and weight needs compromises.

I explained myself earlier, it could have been a perfect fit for my needs.

It may isn't for you, but the world is a big place with - probably too - many peoples.

[John Matthews]

7 hours ago, Django said:

Ouch that hurts! EU has about 30% increase from US prices (20% VAT + 10% markup) for Sony & Canon products. It looks like your country has 40%!

Brazil I think is the worst. I'd advise grey market at that point. 😉 

What is strange and works strongly in the favour of Panasonic is that here their gear is only 19% more than the US. That's less than VAT meaning Panny not only doesn't do a markup, they cut off a percent from their margins for the EU market. Smart strategy that I'm sure pays off!

Prices are only sometimes higher. I've seen deals on both sides. There's an important point regarding the EU: mandatory 2 year warranty. Also, sales tax is often double (but many of us get that back in health care). In general though, I feel individual products are lower in the USA, except monopolies like internet and cellphone service where the USA has pathetic regulation.

[gt3rs]

8 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Yes, I'm serious. And if you don't think a FF camera at a comparable price point with better specs won't be announced in the next 6 to 12 months then you don't follow the camera industry. 

My comments aren't because I'm a Canon hater, they're because it's an average release with one standout feature. The R7 is a better option, and I gave Canon credit on this forum when it was announced. 

If you're fine spending $1500 on a camera that lacks IBIS, has only one card slot, terrible battery life, poor ergonomics, etc. because it has full frame 4K60p then cool. But your opinion is no more valid than mine. 

What ergonomic issue has this camera I don't get it? Compare it to your pointed out R7 it misses only 1 joystick that for video is not super useful compared to the touch screen. I have R5 and R5c and I use the joystick rarely and only for photo. 
So please enlighten me on the poor ergonomics....? or maybe is not too bad that is so small and lightweight that you can use it in smaller gimbal..

IBIS, I wrote so much about the issue that it has at least on Canon cameras that I'm tired to repeat but the summary is Canon IBIS is bad <30mm and if you turn it off you lose lens IS, great between 30-100 especially on non IS lenses, and not useful > 100mm and counterproductive on long lens 400+500mm. What canon needs to do is an IBIS that you can physically fully block while keeping lens IS on.... until then is mix bag....

You are so obsess with one stand out feature but the R8 has many not seen at this price point, FF + great AF + 4k 24 super sampled + 10 bit log + good rolling shutter. I ask you one more time can you point me out another FF camera in the same price range even without your standout 4k super sampled 60? But yes in 6 to 12 months XYZ will have it all + IBIS and for 100$ less so no point in buying this.... or you are one that says great AF is useless as ARRI does not have it 😁, FF is overrated, super sampling what is for I watch on a phone only, but whiteout IBIS is carp as ARRI is 😁. I'm sure you will come with the argument that but XYZ used it has.... but you know what if you keep waiting the R8 will be sold used 😁

So R7 not full frame, really bad RS 32ms!!, no super sampled 50/60p, it is a much better release because it has IBIS and longer battery.... and yes I forget the famous joystick 😉

They are both very good camera for the price but you are not happy that other people are happy with the R8... is a bit sad... it is more than fine that you don't find it a great release but why asking other to stop being happy or praising....  "To be clear, it's not an awful release, but let's stop praising Canon because they're doing more than the bare minimum finally" 

If keep waiting for what comes next makes you happy good for you, but life is too short for keep waiting and complaining ; 😉 .... 

[gt3rs]

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

..and I was so enthusiastic..I am seriously considering going L all the way now, I just have to sell so many things it's unbelievable..

Completely personal feeling and not based on any fact, but I'm a bit puzzled why in a shrinking industry people would invest on L mount with basically only nice players with no high-end cinema and entry level consumers camera offering.... Currently the only two pseudo safe bet are Sony and Canon as both have from entry level to high-end cinema camera. Sony has already all in the mirrorless mount and Canon is following, plus you have REDs using the same RF mount.

Nikon has the Z9 that is really really a good camera but is the only one at the moment in their line. They have also some cool lenses so maybe they bounce back hopefully.

On the L mount... Leica and Sigma are really nice players for cameras, Panasonic seems to have dropped cinema cameras, how old is the EVA? and is not really a player in the photo space... Maybe DJI can push on the long term.... but seems a more risky move.

If people stick with Sony or Canon and don't continue to switch they save money and get good options from lower budget up to the big guns..... the others not soo much.

The used lens market is also much bigger and you can find really good deal. As EF + adapter works so well on the R cameras you can find some pretty impressive lens at attractive price. You now start to see also quite a bit of RF lenses used although with higher prices...

Then L mount will dominate ad I was totally wrong.... but personally I would not bet on it.

[newfoundmass]

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

You wouldn't be able to buy anything in your life, ever! Have you ever bought a car??!! That would be a nightmare for you!

I'm filming on two S5 bodies and a GH5. I don't care about using the latest and greatest. I'm merely pointing out, in response to people insisting on comparing the R8 to 3 year old cameras to point out how great it is, that someone before long will inevitably come along and release a FF 4k60p camera but without all the compromises for under $2000. 

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

IBIS being so important is just laughable for me..does the Pocket cameras have IBIS? Did your cameras for 3-4 years ago? Your Canon C cameras of yesteryear? The Alexa's of this world? I have to work with GH5 sometimes and they make me work with IBIS and I hated it.

I've had a GH5 for 6 years, so yes, I've had IBIS for the last 3-4 years. I've also had no recording limits/overheating, two card slots, good battery life, a body capable of tons of customization, etc. To me these are just as important as the image quality, because they make my job easier. 

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

IQ and speed are the number 1 in video cameras, and this one has those 2 sorted.

How is this camera built for speed?