SRV1981 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Are we the point where high-end phones can be used for most photo and video needs when using for personal use and outputting to YouTube? does it make more sense to use a high-end phone for that and invest in a cinema camera for video work for personal stuff being output to YouTube? Also frame grabs for small prints and socials? c70? FX6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 What does the C70 or FX6 give you that a mirrorless camera half the price doesn't? If you have the money to spend then I guess I'd say go for it, but honestly there's not a ton of good reasons to purchase a cine camera unless you're a full time DP who can benefit from being an owner/operator, and thus get more work and charge more since it eliminates the need of renting a camera. For most of us it just isn't a good investment. FHDcrew and SRV1981 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 46 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: What does the C70 or FX6 give you that a mirrorless camera half the price doesn't? If you have the money to spend then I guess I'd say go for it, but honestly there's not a ton of good reasons to purchase a cine camera unless you're a full time DP who can benefit from being an owner/operator, and thus get more work and charge more since it eliminates the need of renting a camera. For most of us it just isn't a good investment. Internal ND, audio upgrades etc. do you think an fx3/30 is a better middle ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 3 hours ago, SRV1981 said: Internal ND, audio upgrades etc. do you think an fx3/30 is a better middle ground? Internal ND is nice, but is it worth paying 2 or 3 times as much? Audio is less of a problem these days, since you can buy the hot shoe audio adapters that are available and can grow with you. If you are going the Sony route I think the FX30 is an excellent option and competitively priced. I think if you wanted full frame the A7IV would be a better deal than the FX3. For me, it's better to spend less on the camera body because that's what loses value quickest. The second you open that box for the first time your camera is worth less than it was when it was closed. And with every day the value goes down more and more. That's part of the reason I have trouble recommending people drop serious coin on a camera, because unless they are going to be generating a lot of income because of it, it's just not a great long term investment. Like I could afford to buy the Lumix S5ii right now but I'm not going to because in a year or two it will be significantly cheaper on the used market, meaning I keep more money in my pocket even when using it to generate income. 🙂 SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 hour ago, newfoundmass said: Internal ND is nice, but is it worth paying 2 or 3 times as much? Audio is less of a problem these days, since you can buy the hot shoe audio adapters that are available and can grow with you. If you are going the Sony route I think the FX30 is an excellent option and competitively priced. I think if you wanted full frame the A7IV would be a better deal than the FX3. For me, it's better to spend less on the camera body because that's what loses value quickest. The second you open that box for the first time your camera is worth less than it was when it was closed. And with every day the value goes down more and more. That's part of the reason I have trouble recommending people drop serious coin on a camera, because unless they are going to be generating a lot of income because of it, it's just not a great long term investment. Like I could afford to buy the Lumix S5ii right now but I'm not going to because in a year or two it will be significantly cheaper on the used market, meaning I keep more money in my pocket even when using it to generate income. 🙂 Right and we can also buy an fx30 or fx3 used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, SRV1981 said: Right and we can also buy an fx30 or fx3 used. Indeed, though as more time passes they'll become cheaper and cheaper! That's when you find the bargains! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: Indeed, though as more time passes they'll become cheaper and cheaper! That's when you find the bargains! Is it possible to bake in a Lut look in camera for fx30? That would be wild if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPNS Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 8 hours ago, SRV1981 said: Is it possible to bake in a Lut look in camera for fx30? That would be wild if true. They just call that s cinetone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, PPNS said: They just call that s cinetone To clarify, can you upload a custom LUT like Phantom LUTs into the fx30 and bake that look in for quick turn around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 3 hours ago, SRV1981 said: To clarify, can you upload a custom LUT like Phantom LUTs into the fx30 and bake that look in for quick turn around? Yes you can, up to 16 LUTs can be imported and can be baked into clips, or just used to display. True for fx30 and fx3. SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, markr041 said: Yes you can, up to 16 LUTs can be imported and can be baked into clips, or just used to display. True for fx30 and fx3. For prosumer or quick turn around makes the Fx and s52 lines juicy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjohn Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 21 hours ago, newfoundmass said: The second you open that box for the first time your camera is worth less than it was when it was closed. I can see this point for a commercial operator, but resale value has never played a role in my camera purchase decisions, nor do I consider a camera an "investment" when making a purchase. I tend to use my cameras for 10 years or longer if I can, at which point I'm more likely to give them away to a student than to try to sell them anyway. When I owned cars I did the same thing: I ran them for 10 years or 250,000 miles, whichever came first. SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 6:40 AM, newfoundmass said: What does the C70 or FX6 give you that a mirrorless camera half the price doesn't? MANY things! Timecode. SDI outputs. Reliability. Internal NDs. More recording options. etc etc etc etc But for many people these extra factors don't matter to them. However, for many professionals these would be deal breakers for these to be missing. Kisaha and SRV1981 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: MANY things! Timecode. SDI outputs. Reliability. Internal NDs. More recording options. etc etc etc etc But for many people these extra factors don't matter to them. However, for many professionals these would be deal breakers for these to be missing. I was referring more to the OPs use case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/19/2023 at 10:47 PM, newfoundmass said: If you are going the Sony route I think the FX30 is an excellent option and competitively priced. I think if you wanted full frame the A7IV would be a better deal than the FX3. For me, it's better to spend less on the camera body because that's what loses value quickest. The second you open that box for the first time your camera is worth less than it was when it was closed. And with every day the value goes down more and more. That's part of the reason I have trouble recommending people drop serious coin on a camera, because unless they are going to be generating a lot of income because of it, it's just not a great long term investment. Like I could afford to buy the Lumix S5ii right now but I'm not going to because in a year or two it will be significantly cheaper on the used market, meaning I keep more money in my pocket even when using it to generate income. I dunno sorry but that's a really goofy way of looking at things, especially if you're a pro. Buy the best camera you can afford that fits your requirements wether that's specs (resolution, codecs etc) or i/o's ergonomics etc. Obviously be smart and on the lookout for what camera will be a better long term investment rather than short if the camera is at the end of a cycle. The FX3 is imo a much better investment and solution than the A7IV. First it doesn't overheat. That alone is key. Then you have all the cine features including LUT support. The fast readout sensor, A7IV has terrible RS. And of course the cage-less body and top handle with XLRs. If you're on a budget or don't need FF then the FX30 makes even better sense. S5ii is also very competitive. Why wait a year or two if you need the camera today? Don't get me wrong, I don't buy cameras often at all, in fact much less than your average person around here. When I find a camera I'm comfortable with I stick with it forever. And I rarely go for flagships when they are new (I skipped R5, A7S3). But there are plenty of excellent options in the $2K-$3K region right now both new and used if you're in the market for an upgrade. So many in fact that it is hard to choose! Kisaha and SRV1981 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, Django said: I dunno sorry but that's a really goofy way of looking at things, especially if you're a pro. Buy the best camera you can afford that fits your requirements wether that's specs (resolution, codecs etc) or i/o's ergonomics etc. Obviously be smart and on the lookout for what camera will be a better long term investment rather than short if the camera is at the end of a cycle. The FX3 is imo a much better investment and solution than the A7IV. First it doesn't overheat. That alone is key. Then you have all the cine features including LUT support. The fast readout sensor, A7IV has terrible RS. And of course the cage-less body and top handle with XLRs. If you're on a budget or don't need FF then the FX30 makes even better sense. S5ii is also very competitive. Why wait a year or two if you need the camera today? Don't get me wrong, I don't buy cameras often at all, in fact much less than your average person around here. When I find a camera I'm comfortable with I stick with it forever. And I rarely go for flagships when they are new (I skipped R5, A7S3). But there are plenty of excellent options in the $2K-$3K region right now both new and used if you're in the market for an upgrade. So many in fact that it is hard to choose! He seems to be an enthusiast that is looking to film personal videos and some stuff to put on YouTube. There really is no reason to get the FX3 or any other expensive camera when he would be just fine filming with a more affordable one, like the A7IV. Please re-read the original post before recommending that a $4000 camera is a good investment for someone that is looking to film personal stuff that he might put on YouTube. If he has the money to blow, then I guess go for it, but he does not need a cine camera. As far as my own personal philosophy, I want to get the most out of each and every camera investment I make. By waiting I not only will have made more money using the equipment I have, but the equipment that I want to upgrade to will have come down in price even more. In our disposable society where people need the latest and greatest that might seem goofy, but for me it makes the most financial sense and ensures that more money goes into my pocket. In the 5 years I've owned the GH5 it has paid for itself at least 50x over and continues to be a camera I can make money using over the next couple of years. That's what I'm concerned about the most as a freelancer who could one day find himself out of work for a year because of a global pandemic. SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 All excellent points - I’m an enthusiast but wanted to discuss ideas for both pro and non pro alike so I think both views are warranted here. newfoundmass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 hours ago, IronFilm said: MANY things! Timecode. SDI outputs. Reliability. Internal NDs. More recording options. etc etc etc etc But for many people these extra factors don't matter to them. However, for many professionals these would be deal breakers for these to be missing. The C70 doesn't have SDI unfortunately. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, newfoundmass said: He seems to be an enthusiast that is looking to film personal videos and some stuff to put on YouTube. There really is no reason to get the FX3 or any other expensive camera when he would be just fine filming with a more affordable one, like the A7IV. Please re-read the original post before recommending that a $4000 camera is a good investment for someone that is looking to film personal stuff that he might put on YouTube. If he has the money to blow, then I guess go for it, but he does not need a cine camera. As far as my own personal philosophy, I want to get the most out of each and every camera investment I make. By waiting I not only will have made more money using the equipment I have, but the equipment that I want to upgrade to will have come down in price even more. In our disposable society where people need the latest and greatest that might seem goofy, but for me it makes the most financial sense and ensures that more money goes into my pocket. In the 5 years I've owned the GH5 it has paid for itself at least 50x over and continues to be a camera I can make money using over the next couple of years. That's what I'm concerned about the most as a freelancer who could one day find himself out of work for a year because of a global pandemic. I'm not recommending him anything in particular, we're just talking shop and comparing cameras. There are enthusiasts with high budgets and also high expectations. There are pros that are very budget conscious and don't place priority on specs. There are Canon fans, Panasonic fans, Sony fans. FF fans, S35 fans, MFT fans. Etc. I don't know who is who when on gear forums, I can only give you my perspective. SRV1981, FHDcrew and IronFilm 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, newfoundmass said: By waiting I not only will have made more money using the equipment I have, but the equipment that I want to upgrade to will have come down in price even more. Ditto. I used to always upgrade to the most recent latest & greatest whether it really was or not and sometimes it was and other times it wasn’t. Ideally, unless I absolutely need it, I hold off. Since 2018, I have bought precisely 2 new cameras. That I have kept anyway (returned the OM-1 and XH2). These have been the S5 after I sold off all my Fuji gear knowing I was not going to stick with what I had and then recently the S5ii as I do have need for reliable AF for a % of my work. But my S1R's, both now gone, purchased used for 1500 and 1600 euros and my current pair of S1H's, 2150 and 1850. For me it is the equation: need + cost + timing and I like to start any season with all the kit I am going to use and if I can, not make changes until after any season has finished. Too many lens changes last year as I wrestled L Mount into submission but think I have it nailed down now… newfoundmass, IronFilm and SRV1981 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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