Fx30

[SRV1981]

28 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Working on it!

Last year, I shot and produced 32 (all weddings by the way so if that bores you, look away now!) and I was a little sporadic in my use of lighting for all kinds of reasons*

Early, but slow start this year and kicking myself I did not start as I meant to go, ie, again, not full use as intended.

Next job, next week, I am going to light light light it and keep on doing so for the future.

This is the way.

*Mainly long lay off over Winter and first couple of jobs always a bit rusty. That’s my excuse anyway… 🤨

Awesome! Congrats.  When you’re producing during travel for yourself etc are you lighting indoors and outside when it’s dark? 

[IronFilm]

On 4/20/2023 at 5:43 AM, SRV1981 said:

I'm not sure about this.  We're not living a decade ago and for those who don't have more than themselves and no lighting - ISO performance and options today are what's relevant. 

How many of us can shoot better than what was being made a decade ago? 

The equipment isn't limiting you, skill/time/budget is. 

Let's not lose focus on the big picture: the low light capabilities of cameras are far better than what most of us need. We're not shooting with Panasonic DVX100 cameras any longer. 

On 4/20/2023 at 5:43 AM, SRV1981 said:

Fault with the user ... could you unpack how that plays out in lowlight as a single operater?

Because they're shooting at f11 then complaining about the noise, or they don't even expose it right in the first place. Or they don't use a light when they should. Or they don't realize when they're making completely unreasonable demands.

[IronFilm]

On 4/20/2023 at 2:53 PM, Django said:

Also C300ii & FS7 are fairly old cameras, even the Alexa Classic/Mini was never really considered a "lowlight cinema champ".

FS7 has probably shot more professional content in recent years than anything else. 

The FS7 was absolutely dominant in the mid/low end market until just a few short years ago. 

And the C300mk2 was the #2 player behind it. 

People playing in the no budget mirrorless world are very lucky to now have cameras such as the FX30 that outperforms the image quality from a FS7. (but no NDs, no SDI, etc... still a lot of reasons to prefer a FS7)

And the Alexa when it first came out certainly was a big game changer in allowing to shoot in low light, vs what they typically used beforehand. 

[Django]

29 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

FS7 has probably shot more professional content in recent years than anything else. 

The FS7 was absolutely dominant in the mid/low end market until just a few short years ago. 

And the C300mk2 was the #2 player behind it. 

People playing in the no budget mirrorless world are very lucky to now have cameras such as the FX30 that outperforms the image quality from a FS7. (but no NDs, no SDI, etc... still a lot of reasons to prefer a FS7)

And the Alexa when it first came out certainly was a big game changer in allowing to shoot in low light, vs what they typically used beforehand. 

Oh I know bro, I own an FS7 so I know its a workhorse. But FF and even APS-C mirrorless have more refreshed sensors so not really a surprise they handle lowlight or DR better. I still think the FS7 has a certain mojo to its IQ, just like older Canon does despite being inferior on paper/charts. And of course the Alexa is already a cult classic still in heavy use despite more recent ARRI cams with higher resolution/specs. 

[aaa123jc]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:05 PM, SRV1981 said:

This is exactly what I’m saying. Well said. What cameras would you recommend for those who fit this description?

I can only comment on Sony cameras. I have very little experience with modern cameras from other brands.

TBH, basically any newer Sony camera(within 2-3 years) is going to be great at lowlight. I would recommend A7M4 because it is also a terrific stills camera, and in terms of image quality or high iso performance, quite similar to the A7S3. You don't need a high base of ISO 12800 to shoot in darker condition. For the most part, the high iso performance of the A7M4 is more than enough. It is FF too.

I personally use the FX30. Despite it being Super 35 and "only" ISO 2500, I can still shoot night scenes with it with only street lights and the results are at least acceptable. As long as there is some kind of light source, any capable modern Sony camera can give good result in lowlight.

My other even older camera, FS7M2, does decent in lowlight too. And that sensor is anicent, comparing to the A7M4.

Also, you can always clean up some of the noise in post. I really like the denoise in Davinci Resolve.

[aaa123jc]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

FS7 has probably shot more professional content in recent years than anything else. 

The FS7 was absolutely dominant in the mid/low end market until just a few short years ago. 

And the C300mk2 was the #2 player behind it. 

People playing in the no budget mirrorless world are very lucky to now have cameras such as the FX30 that outperforms the image quality from a FS7. (but no NDs, no SDI, etc... still a lot of reasons to prefer a FS7)

And the Alexa when it first came out certainly was a big game changer in allowing to shoot in low light, vs what they typically used beforehand. 

The FS7 really is a legendary camera. IMO it deserves to have its own chapter in camera history. I maybe biased though, as an owner of two, the FS7 and the FS7M2. 😄

The image quality of the FS7 sensor still holds up, especially with good lighting. No client has ever complained about the images I produced with it. Not to mention other profesional features like SDI. Both of my FS7 are easily some of the best pruchase I have made ever.

[SRV1981]

6 hours ago, aaa123jc said:

I can only comment on Sony cameras. I have very little experience with modern cameras from other brands.

TBH, basically any newer Sony camera(within 2-3 years) is going to be great at lowlight. I would recommend A7M4 because it is also a terrific stills camera, and in terms of image quality or high iso performance, quite similar to the A7S3. You don't need a high base of ISO 12800 to shoot in darker condition. For the most part, the high iso performance of the A7M4 is more than enough. It is FF too.

I personally use the FX30. Despite it being Super 35 and "only" ISO 2500, I can still shoot night scenes with it with only street lights and the results are at least acceptable. As long as there is some kind of light source, any capable modern Sony camera can give good result in lowlight.

My other even older camera, FS7M2, does decent in lowlight too. And that sensor is anicent, comparing to the A7M4.

Also, you can always clean up some of the noise in post. I really like the denoise in Davinci Resolve.

Well laid out points.  Took time today to check the experiences with overheating in the a74 and the look of cinetone with some modifications. 
 

this guy convinced me I don’t need LUTs to get good skin tones and images: 

 

This video also made me comfortable that at 4k 24 I shouldn’t worry about overheating: 

 

so the fx30 would Have better cooking and slow motion but I’d stilL need to buy a photo camera and it will Cost more than just using an a7iv and 24-105.

 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

but I’d stilL need to buy a photo camera and it will Cost more than just using an a7iv and 24-105.

meh, just get an a6000 from eBay for mere pennies to take your photos with, and it makes for a handy B Cam / emergency back up to your FX30. 

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

meh, just get an a6000 from eBay for mere pennies to take your photos with, and it makes for a handy B Cam / emergency back up to your FX30. 

Ha I get it! But I’d be shooting fast moving athletes indoors - never had luck with APSC. Was hoping the fx30 would be good for me but video after video notes that you must properly light your scene as you’ve said here. I’ve realized for my needs I won’t be lighting so an a7iv is a better value it seems. 

[Django]

4 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Ha I get it! But I’d be shooting fast moving athletes indoors - never had luck with APSC. Was hoping the fx30 would be good for me but video after video notes that you must properly light your scene as you’ve said here. I’ve realized for my needs I won’t be lighting so an a7iv is a better value it seems. 

Keep in mind A7IV has very poor RS (26.8ms) so not really ideal for sports/action. 4K60p also has a 1.5x crop so it basically becomes APS-C & 4K120 is absent. If you add to that the overheating that makes A7IV a rather poor choice if you're planning on shooting beyond 4K30p..

[SRV1981]

55 minutes ago, Django said:

Keep in mind A7IV has very poor RS (26.8ms) so not really ideal for sports/action. 4K60p also has a 1.5x crop so it basically becomes APS-C & 4K120 is absent. If you add to that the overheating that makes A7IV a rather poor choice if you're planning on shooting beyond 4K30p..

Sports is one aspect - not for paid but personal use as a coach. I used an xt3 years ago and the only complaint people noticed was noise fr ISO and autofocus. RS isn’t a big issue for track and field in my view.  Lowlight is significantly more important to me, personally than RS. 

[A_Urquhart]

15 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Ha I get it! But I’d be shooting fast moving athletes indoors - never had luck with APSC. Was hoping the fx30 would be good for me but video after video notes that you must properly light your scene as you’ve said here. I’ve realized for my needs I won’t be lighting so an a7iv is a better value it seems. 

If there is enough light indoor to play sport, there is more than enough light for an FX30 to get decent images.
 

 

[IronFilm]

On 4/24/2023 at 9:39 PM, SRV1981 said:

Ha I get it! But I’d be shooting fast moving athletes indoors - never had luck with APSC.

Millions of photos have been shot of athletes indoors, if an APS-C camera such as the Nikon D500 isn't "good enough" for you, then I expect the problem is with the user and not the sensor size. 

On 4/24/2023 at 9:39 PM, SRV1981 said:

but video after video notes that you must properly light your scene as you’ve said here.

Properly lighting a scene is important for any camera with any sensor size. 

 

[SRV1981]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Millions of photos have been shot of athletes indoors, if an APS-C camera such as the Nikon D500 isn't "good enough" for you, then I expect the problem is with the user and not the sensor size. 

Properly lighting a scene is important for any camera with any sensor size. 

 

It’s really comforting to come to a forum to chat with blokes and be responded to with ad hominem insults.  You’re not wrong on some of what you’d say, but you miss context a lot. 

[IronFilm]

There is no ad hominem whatsoever in pointing out that if a person is getting bad photos out of a Nikon D500, the issues is very likely not with the camera. 

[MrSMW]

Googles meaning: ‘ad hominem’.

You learn something every day on this forum 👍

[Django]

I'm not sure how FX30's video lowlight capabilities effectively can translate to shooting photos on a D500 but I do agree that indoor sports shouldn't be the most challenging light conditions unless you are shooting at very slow aperture and/or the gym has extremely poor lighting for some reason. In that case, the solution imo is to use faster glass, improve the lighting and/or indeed get better lowlight sensor. 

Regardless, if you do need a hybrid, that kinda rules out FX30, especially for sports. XH2S would be a much better hybrid for fast action and lowlight imo. S5ii and R6ii are also solid choices in that $2.5K budget.

[SRV1981]

11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Googles meaning: ‘ad hominem’.

You learn something every day on this forum 👍

The upsides of social media 😝 

10 hours ago, Django said:

I'm not sure how FX30's video lowlight capabilities effectively can translate to shooting photos on a D500 but I do agree that indoor sports shouldn't be the most challenging light conditions unless you are shooting at very slow aperture and/or the gym has extremely poor lighting for some reason. In that case, the solution imo is to use faster glass, improve the lighting and/or indeed get better lowlight sensor. 

Regardless, if you do need a hybrid, that kinda rules out FX30, especially for sports. XH2S would be a much better hybrid for fast action and lowlight imo. S5ii and R6ii are also solid choices in that $2.5K budget.

Good points. Thinking a7iv is going to be the ultimate move here. Work with cinetone and improve the craft. 

[markr041]

fx30 at night:

 

[SRV1981]

29 minutes ago, markr041 said:

fx30 at night:

 

Looks good at 2500 with ambient light, love it!  Still thinking a7iv will make more sense with ability for photo in 1 body