Sony New Camera Launch - 29th March 2023

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, 92F said:

it could have been shot with anything... and in FHD

No point videos I call them..what is the point of those? What do we learn? That kids play soccer at some Arabic country? 

1:30 minutes of nothingness..

[PannySVHS]

no, no, not nothingness, nowness it is! @Kisaha

[aaa123jc]

22 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Exactly the opposite, it has tricks and technical specifications that someone with very limited knowledge can achieve results much above his/hers abilities..

I agree with the technical specifications. The tricks I can't say for certain though. It looks to me that cinematic mode does more harm than good at the moment. It may depends on how limited the knowledge of that person.

Anyways I haven't had a chance to test out this camera, so I'm just speculating.

If the ZV-E1 indeed can give someone with limited knowledge the ability to produce professional result, it's going to be a VERY BIG DEAL, but perhaps not so great for us professionals.😅

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, aaa123jc said:

I agree with the technical specifications. The tricks I can't say for certain though. It looks to me that cinematic mode does more harm than good at the moment. It may depends on how limited the knowledge of that person.

Anyways I haven't had a chance to test out this camera, so I'm just speculating.

If the ZV-E1 indeed can give someone with limited knowledge the ability to produce professional result, it's going to be a VERY BIG DEAL, but perhaps not so great for us professionals.😅

Definitely not for us! But these AI "gimmicks" can offer someone with very limited knowledge some "production" values. One of the best Sony sensor/stabilization also helps..

I am not defending the camera, I respect the product placement and the marketing decisions in this..

We all speculate, it will be strange for me to use this camera on any production that I usually work, but I get what are they doing, I guess.

[92F]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Nous spéculons tous, il sera étrange pour moi d'utiliser cet appareil photo sur n'importe quelle production sur laquelle je travaille habituellement, mais je comprends ce qu'ils font, je suppose.

👍

[92F]

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

We all speculate, it will be strange for me to use this camera on any production that I usually work, but I get what are they doing, I guess.

👍

[Django]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:37 AM, MrSMW said:

I thought you said in a few posts back I was being too harsh regarding this release? 🤔😉

true lol but that was before the dan watson review where he got the camera to overheat in 5mn as well as on his couch without even recording. if the camera actual had decent thermal management I wouldn't be so harsh on it myself. then again the intended market will probably shoot short 8-bit baked files. and when the camera overheats in 4K60p/4k120p they will switch to their phones and call it a day. ignorance is bliss. 

[MrSMW]

Exactly. Anything can have all the paper specs in the world but if when you step outside your front door…

Or even remain on your couch like Dan 🤔

I’m all for small, light and ingenious and I am well aware of what/who the target market is, but there are plenty of other options sooooo much better than this.

Who would it work for?

C/casual cam for someone who can say, “OKfuckit” and flip over to their FX30 in under 10 seconds when it shuts down.

I can see a place for it and some of it’s features are pretty funky, but I think what most of us are mainly criticising is it’s not going to be a reliable sole camera for anyone that is working I guess.

The ZV1 was great but it had that problem most small cameras suffer from, near zero thermal management.

Mine overheated too many times so it had to go. But then I probably should not have been using it for what I was using it for! 🤪

[Emanuel]

@Kisaha@92F Sarah Jeanette Connor was sane after all ;- )

[IronFilm]

On 3/31/2023 at 8:00 AM, SRV1981 said:

Seems premature to be that specific and confident,  no? 12 people had a stab at it with different analysis of overheating. 

And that's why people have reported. 

[newfoundmass]

I was talking to a friend this morning who started out planning to be a YouTuber but ended up doing actual paid work and losing interest in YouTube. He's a Sony user and he gave me a different perspective for why this camera sucks and it is a pretty simple one: given it's limitations it can't grow with you.

His first paid jobs were because people knew he did "that YouTube stuff" and they wondered if he could film something for them. He was of course stoked about it, but ended up having a problem: his A7iii was good for his YouTube channel but the 30 minute record limit didn't cut it for the theater productions he was asked to film. Suddenly the camera that he bought because all the YouTubers he wanted to emulate were using it, and that he bought on credit (he was 20 at the time and didn't know better), wasn't the right tool for the job. He was able to get around it when he found out the trick to remove the limit, but he still found it'd overheat sometimes. His parents eventually helped him buy an A7siii once they saw the potential in what he was doing, but it was a costly lesson. 

Obviously his experience might not be typical, but his point was that if he was just getting started now he'd probably buy this camera but end up regretting it because of it's limitations. People's intentions/priorities change over time. People buying this camera might only intend to use it for YouTube and short takes, but what happens when your co-worker offers to pay you to film their kid's play? Or you're asked to film your cousin's wedding? 

Anyway, it was an interesting perspective from someone that started out as a YouTuber that I thought I'd share.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I was talking to a friend this morning who started out planning to be a YouTuber but ended up doing actual paid work and losing interest in YouTube. He's a Sony user and he gave me a different perspective for why this camera sucks and it is a pretty simple one: given it's limitations it can't grow with you.

His first paid jobs were because people knew he did "that YouTube stuff" and they wondered if he could film something for them. He was of course stoked about it, but ended up having a problem: his A7iii was good for his YouTube channel but the 30 minute record limit didn't cut it for the theater productions he was asked to film. Suddenly the camera that he bought because all the YouTubers he wanted to emulate were using it, and that he bought on credit (he was 20 at the time and didn't know better), wasn't the right tool for the job. He was able to get around it when he found out the trick to remove the limit, but he still found it'd overheat sometimes. His parents eventually helped him buy an A7siii once they saw the potential in what he was doing, but it was a costly lesson. 

Obviously his experience might not be typical, but his point was that if he was just getting started now he'd probably buy this camera but end up regretting it because of it's limitations. People's intentions/priorities change over time. People buying this camera might only intend to use it for YouTube and short takes, but what happens when your co-worker offers to pay you to film their kid's play? Or you're asked to film your cousin's wedding? 

Anyway, it was an interesting perspective from someone that started out as a YouTuber that I thought I'd share.

we just wrapped a few hours ago a documentary for the National TV. The first camera was an A7sIII and the second camera was an A7iii..

for most jobs, even an A7iii is good enough, if you shoot theater productions, even a C100mkII is ideal for it, which is not for most of the other stuff..

This is just one rare case..

most youtubers do not even care for "normal" jobs, and most blue collar videographers do not even know any youtubers..

[Django]

 

@newfoundmass I'd say Sony is expecting precisely your friends pattern. They want to lure in young newbies into their ecosystem with ZV-E1 and then have them upgrade to a more capable camera once they outgrow the limitations. Most noobs don't directly invest in the most expensive flagship.

36 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

for most jobs, even an A7iii is good enough, if you shoot theater productions, even a C100mkII is ideal for it, which is not for most of the other stuff..

I think his point was the 30mn record limit made A7iii a no go. As for C100mkII, meh.. that old sensor does not do good in low-light. I also find 4K/6K/8K invaluable for that type of work if you're on solo cam for punch-ins in post. I could actually see the new AI auto frame stuff being handy for quick turnover long format situations where you might not be able to move around like in a locked audience perspective stage performance. Obviously not the ZV-E1 but that tech in the next Sony cams may have potential. 

[newfoundmass]

40 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

This is just one rare case..

most youtubers do not even care for "normal" jobs, and most blue collar videographers do not even know any youtubers..

As I said it might not be typical, but I don't think it's one rare case at all. I think quite a few YouTubers end up producing video work for others, whether it's a friend asking to film their kid's recital or a family member asking if they'd film their wedding. Once the ball gets rolling it can lead into something else. Many of us "blue collar videographers" started out as hobbyist and got our first paid gigs because we were known as "the video person" or "the person with the video camera." My first paid work was because as a 13 year old I'd bring my video camera to pro-wrestling shows to film for my own enjoyment and one time I was offered money in exchange for the footage. In many ways the aspiring YouTuber is the modern equivalent of that. To say that it's rare I just don't think is correct.

[Kisaha]

3 minutes ago, Django said:

 

@newfoundmass I'd say Sony is expecting precisely your friends pattern. They want to lure in young newbies into their ecosystem with ZV-E1 and then have them upgrade to a more capable camera once they outgrow the limitations. Most noobs don't directly invest in the most expensive flagship.

I think his point was the 30mn record limit made A7iii a no go. As for C100mkII, meh.. that old sensor does not do good in low-light. I also find 4K/6K/8K invaluable for that type of work if you're on solo cam for punch-ins in post. I could actually see the new AI auto frame stuff being handy for quick turnover long format situations where you might not be able to move around like in a locked audience perspective stage performance. Obviously not the ZV-E1 but that tech in the next Sony cams may have potential. 

no one I know shoots or delivers 4K for long performances/dance/music/theater. someone might, but is definitely not the standard at this side of European Union..still a lot of people use the C100mkII as their moneymakers, hence the high prices for such an old camera. There is always light on stage, it is more likely to overexpose on such a situation than the opposite.

It wasn't the right tool for the job, I get it, but it doesn't mean much, or saying anything about this new release, or most of the cameras on the market..I never got a Sony, as it was never the right tool for me, but I never complained that it isn't the right tool, it isn't, for me, but it was right for a lot of people if I have to judge by sales!

@newfoundmass

I still found the case too specific to matter much..what was the job? I never shoot one camera only on performances, that is just crazy..even when I work alone I use at least 2, or even 3 cameras. With 1 photo camera you just ask for trouble..overheating, change cards (especially if you shoot 4K and above you will need a lot of those), batteries dying, someone trips on the tripod, you have made a small technical mistake - very common for unexperienced videomakers, completely wrong focus or searching/finding the right focus and I can keep going on for a few more lines for sure..

on cases that I shoot alone, and I do not do them anymore but just to keep the conversation going, I have one camera with a widish focal lenght and one with a tele zoom, that is the absolutely minimum..sometimes I was even having one on stage with a fish eye or ultra wide (very impressive for dance performances).

If he is really doing long performances, I would keep the A7iii as a B cam, it would be great for interviews as well, or a second body for photography (I always used 2 or 3 bodies for photographing such events..).

I would prefer Youtubers, stay on youtube..

I don't know how everyone started on the job, but I started the old school way, with 2 2-year diplomas, one Bachelor of Arts and 24 years of professional experience between those.

I wonder what is going to be his next purchase if he wants to become a pilot next..

[newfoundmass]

Times change, as does how people get into video production and videography. You're unable to see things from a perspective that isn't yours @Kisaha. If you're a 21 year old kid (that's how old he was when he got his first paid gig) that is offered $75 to film a theater performance because you happen to own a camera for a YouTube channel you're trying to get off the ground, you're not going to have the experience and knowledge of someone that has been doing it for years and years. You're also probably not going to turn that opportunity down, either, because that's a credit card payment for the camera you put on credit.

I was only relaying how his path into videography began, and how he first purchased a camera that was limited and how that impacted his unexpected, but ultimately successful, transition into doing paid work. He now shoots with three A7siii bodies and is doing well for himself. His criticism of the ZV-E1 is pretty valid, because 5 years ago he would've been the target demo for this camera, probably purchased it, and found he'd spent $2200 on a camera that he couldn't use for the work he'd eventually end up doing. As he put it, there's dozens of better options that won't limit a person from following whatever path they end up taking, whether it's being a YouTuber or becoming interested in filmmaking or videography as a job.

His perspective was different from mine, and obviously yours, so I figured it was worth sharing.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

Times change, as does how people get into video production and videography. You're unable to see things from a perspective that isn't yours @Kisaha. If you're a 21 year old kid (that's how old he was when he got his first paid gig) that is offered $75 to film a theater performance because you happen to own a camera for a YouTube channel you're trying to get off the ground, you're not going to have the experience and knowledge of someone that has been doing it for years and years. You're also probably not going to turn that opportunity down, either, because that's a credit card payment for the camera you put on credit.

I was only relaying how his path into videography began, and how he first purchased a camera that was limited and how that impacted his unexpected, but ultimately successful, transition into doing paid work. He now shoots with three A7siii bodies and is doing well for himself. His criticism of the ZV-E1 is pretty valid, because 5 years ago he would've been the target demo for this camera, probably purchased it, and found he'd spent $2200 on a camera that he couldn't use for the work he'd eventually end up doing. As he put it, there's dozens of better options that won't limit a person from following whatever path they end up taking, whether it's being a YouTuber or becoming interested in filmmaking or videography as a job.

His perspective was different from mine, and obviously yours, so I figured it was worth sharing.

Moot point..we now shoot Alexas and high end cameras for big projects, when I started young it was only film and terrible (cheap) digital, then we didn't even have dSLRs shooting video, then we didn't have mirrorless, in 5 years maybe the 4K of the A7sIII will be obsolete and everyone will shoot 8K..how is it possible to know that one will keep a camera for more than 5 years? Maybe the kid shoots with 3 Alexa's next..or what should have done when asked to film for 75$? Buy a 4.000$ camera instantly (which wasn't probably released yet?!?)? Moot point..

Whatever your way is, you never make ONE purchase, and stay with it forever..

[SRV1981]

 

[IronFilm]

On 4/5/2023 at 5:39 AM, newfoundmass said:

Times change, as does how people get into video production and videography. You're unable to see things from a perspective that isn't yours @Kisaha. If you're a 21 year old kid (that's how old he was when he got his first paid gig) that is offered $75 to film a theater performance because you happen to own a camera for a YouTube channel you're trying to get off the ground, you're not going to have the experience and knowledge of someone that has been doing it for years and years. You're also probably not going to turn that opportunity down, either, because that's a credit card payment for the camera you put on credit.

I was only relaying how his path into videography began, and how he first purchased a camera that was limited and how that impacted his unexpected, but ultimately successful, transition into doing paid work. He now shoots with three A7siii bodies and is doing well for himself. His criticism of the ZV-E1 is pretty valid, because 5 years ago he would've been the target demo for this camera, probably purchased it, and found he'd spent $2200 on a camera that he couldn't use for the work he'd eventually end up doing. As he put it, there's dozens of better options that won't limit a person from following whatever path they end up taking, whether it's being a YouTuber or becoming interested in filmmaking or videography as a job.

His perspective was different from mine, and obviously yours, so I figured it was worth sharing.

I agree, the next generation of us filmmakers will more likely have come up via a pathway of being aspiring youtubers/tiktokkers/instagrammers than because they were aspiring to be the next Richard Deakins 

The B Cam Op on the film I just finished was yet another example of exactly that, he was a fairly successful Instagram Influencer who has now transitioned over into the Camera Dept on film sets. (owns a RED Weapon and RED Komodo) 

[newfoundmass]

34 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I agree, the next generation of us filmmakers will more likely have come up via a pathway of being aspiring youtubers/tiktokkers/instagrammers than because they were aspiring to be the next Richard Deakins 

The B Cam Op on the film I just finished was yet another example of exactly that, he was a fairly successful Instagram Influencer who has now transitioned over into the Camera Dept on film sets. (owns a RED Weapon and RED Komodo) 

There are good and bad things about it, I definitely get why people dread it, but it's the future. Social media is how they get their feet wet and THEN that's when their world opens up to filmmaking and videography. I mean, we're already seeing it happen. People who think my friend is a rare example aren't paying attention.

 

On 4/4/2023 at 2:53 PM, Kisaha said:

how is it possible to know that one will keep a camera for more than 5 years? Maybe the kid shoots with 3 Alexa's next..or what should have done when asked to film for 75$? Buy a 4.000$ camera instantly (which wasn't probably released yet?!?)? Moot point..

Whatever your way is, you never make ONE purchase, and stay with it forever..

You're still missing the point. No one is saying you buy one camera and that's it. Someone starting their video journey though probably shouldn't have to purchase a whole new camera in a year or two because the camera they spent $2200 on can't record for extended periods or in hot conditions without overheating. At least not in 2023, anyway. 

People need to stop making excuses for these companies.

21 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

 

He's a nice enough dude, but unfortunately he's a Sony shill. I probably wouldn't take what he has to say, re: whether you should buy a camera, very seriously.