Sony New Camera Launch - 29th March 2023

[Kisaha]

35 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Is that a real product? 

Edit: it is, I'll be damned!

Actually, JJC has a lot value for money products. I have some pistol grips and many accessories for bought from them. Also, recently got all my RF sun hoods from them. I didn't know about the umbrella though!

[newfoundmass]

Yeah JCC has always had decent gear. I'll probably purchase this with the summer coming, if only to shade my pale ass a little (there's a bigger version available!) From the sun!

[Django]

So I just tried the ZV-E1 among other recent releases and here are some quick thoughts:

The build quality is better than I thought, nothing like the previous toy-like ZV cams and much closer to current A7 series, probably closest to A7C. Unit carries a certain weight so balances ok even with bigger (prime) lenses.

Very minimal design and button layout. While this may seem like a con its also a pro, kind of reminds me of Leica philosophy. Yes sometimes less is more. 

Set the shutter speed with the dial, aperture with the thumbwheel. Zoom with the rocker switch. Jump to stills/video/S&Q with the mode switch.

Just about everything else is done on the touchscreen like a smartphone. This is where things start to go a little sideways. The tiny 3" display and small fonts of the settings require precision, and the Sony menu and overlays don't help. But it is still more handy than most other A7 cameras with their limited touch capabilities. 

By default just about everything is automatic, like a smartphone. Basically point & shoot. And it works pretty well as in no major jarring issues. The AF is top notch, I tried several lenses including my F1.8 Zeiss and it didn't skip a beat.. smooth AF, pun intended. 

No surprise about the IQ, its an A7Siii sensor. Clear image zoom via the rocker switch is killer though, really like that function lifted from FX3. 

Tried the AI reframing stuff, didn't gel with it. Applies a huge crop.

Now about the overheat. After 15mn of shooting 4K60p indoors using lowest bitrate codec, the camera shut off with no warning. I thought the battery had died lol. That was on the normal level heat setting, so I put it into high and didn't run into the issue again but I was shooting short clips, changing lenses every 5 minutes and didn't spend more than an hour with the unit. I didn't have a fast card so wasn't even able to test out the higher bitrate settings or ALL-I. The camera did feel warm after about hour.

This pretty much confirmed my suspicions through the reviews that this camera is not fit for pro/extended use but rather casual shooting. I still find the price of 2799€ pretty bonkers for a camera with no EVF, single card slot, zero cooling, no mechanical shutter etc. But the IQ and snappiness is impressive.

That being said, it does make the A7SIII feel somewhat sluggish & dated. And all this tech in an A7 body would be nice. I guess its a good preview into what's to expect in upcoming higher end Sony bodies..

[ntblowz]

21 minutes ago, Django said:

 

Now about the overheat. After 15mn of shooting 4K60p indoors using lowest bitrate codec, the camera shut off with no warning. I thought the battery had died lol. That was on the normal level heat setting, so I put it into high and didn't run into the issue again but I was shooting short clips, changing lenses every 5 minutes and didn't spend more than an hour with the unit. I didn't have a fast card so wasn't even able to test out the higher bitrate settings or ALL-I. The camera did feel warm after about hour.

This pretty much confirmed my suspicions through the reviews that this camera is not fit for pro/extended use but rather casual shooting. I still find the price of 2799€ pretty bonkers for a camera with no EVF, single card slot, zero cooling, no mechanical shutter etc. But the IQ and snappiness is impressive.

No EVF is a key feature according to Sony

Wonder how long the the camera last with 4K120P in july/aug temperature..

The processor on those new camera felt much more refined vs 2-3 year old release, the R8 makes my R5 felt a bit old for sure lol.

 

[ntblowz]

This guy managed to get 4K60p recording from 40min to over 1hr 40min with this fan kit

[newfoundmass]

14 hours ago, ntblowz said:

This guy managed to get 4K60p recording from 40min to over 1hr 40min with this fan kit

Lol, this stuff is ridiculous. 

[markr041]

On 5/4/2023 at 8:06 AM, Django said:

So I just tried the ZV-E1 among other recent releases and here are some quick thoughts:

The build quality is better than I thought, nothing like the previous toy-like ZV cams and much closer to current A7 series, probably closest to A7C. Unit carries a certain weight so balances ok even with bigger (prime) lenses.

Very minimal design and button layout. While this may seem like a con its also a pro, kind of reminds me of Leica philosophy. Yes sometimes less is more. 

Set the shutter speed with the dial, aperture with the thumbwheel. Zoom with the rocker switch. Jump to stills/video/S&Q with the mode switch.

Just about everything else is done on the touchscreen like a smartphone. This is where things start to go a little sideways. The tiny 3" display and small fonts of the settings require precision, and the Sony menu and overlays don't help. But it is still more handy than most other A7 cameras with their limited touch capabilities. 

By default just about everything is automatic, like a smartphone. Basically point & shoot. And it works pretty well as in no major jarring issues. The AF is top notch, I tried several lenses including my F1.8 Zeiss and it didn't skip a beat.. smooth AF, pun intended. 

No surprise about the IQ, its an A7Siii sensor. Clear image zoom via the rocker switch is killer though, really like that function lifted from FX3. 

Tried the AI reframing stuff, didn't gel with it. Applies a huge crop.

Now about the overheat. After 15mn of shooting 4K60p indoors using lowest bitrate codec, the camera shut off with no warning. I thought the battery had died lol. That was on the normal level heat setting, so I put it into high and didn't run into the issue again but I was shooting short clips, changing lenses every 5 minutes and didn't spend more than an hour with the unit. I didn't have a fast card so wasn't even able to test out the higher bitrate settings or ALL-I. The camera did feel warm after about hour.

This pretty much confirmed my suspicions through the reviews that this camera is not fit for pro/extended use but rather casual shooting. I still find the price of 2799€ pretty bonkers for a camera with no EVF, single card slot, zero cooling, no mechanical shutter etc. But the IQ and snappiness is impressive.

That being said, it does make the A7SIII feel somewhat sluggish & dated. And all this tech in an A7 body would be nice. I guess its a good preview into what's to expect in upcoming higher end Sony bodies..

Very nice write-up. But one advantage of the ZV E1 is Dynamic Active Stabilization (DAS). It turns out that what is going on is that Sony is exploiting Clear Image Zoom technology, now much improved by AI - you can use all the tracking AF features with CIZ - CIZ is better on the E1 than on any fx camera (and the a7s iii) because of the AI (you lose tracking focus with ZIZ on all other cameras). Anyway, the DAS uses the augmented CIZ to zoom out to accomplish the crop. So the loss of resolution you expect from the crop is not there! Moreover you really can walk and shoot with the camera with no gimbal and it looks good  - much better than the simple crop you get using gyro stabilization in post, and a smoother result.

I will have a 4K 60P real video soon, which shows off the audio (live music), focus pulls, CIZ, DAS, and AF. Shot in 4K 60P HEVC 200 Mbps 10bit 422 Slog3. And I used the kit lens. First time with the camera. As you said, the images look as good as the fx3 (a7s iii), but the capabilities are really enhanced for using in the field.

And, in a 2.5 hours shooting with clips ranging from 10 seconds to two minutes exhausting 96 GB's of storage and 76% of the battery the camera never even got warm (65 degree (F) weather and humid).

[markr041]

And her it is, with the Dynamic Active stabilization demo at the end:

 

[Django]

10 hours ago, markr041 said:

Very nice write-up. But one advantage of the ZV E1 is Dynamic Active Stabilization (DAS). It turns out that what is going on is that Sony is exploiting Clear Image Zoom technology, now much improved by AI - you can use all the tracking AF features with CIZ - CIZ is better on the E1 than on any fx camera (and the a7s iii) because of the AI (you lose tracking focus with ZIZ on all other cameras). Anyway, the DAS uses the augmented CIZ to zoom out to accomplish the crop. So the loss of resolution you expect from the crop is not there! Moreover you really can walk and shoot with the camera with no gimbal and it looks good  - much better than the simple crop you get using gyro stabilization in post, and a smoother result.

I will have a 4K 60P real video soon, which shows off the audio (live music), focus pulls, CIZ, DAS, and AF. Shot in 4K 60P HEVC 200 Mbps 10bit 422 Slog3. And I used the kit lens. First time with the camera. As you said, the images look as good as the fx3 (a7s iii), but the capabilities are really enhanced for using in the field.

And, in a 2.5 hours shooting with clips ranging from 10 seconds to two minutes exhausting 96 GB's of storage and 76% of the battery the camera never even got warm (65 degree (F) weather and humid).

Interesting, you had some pretty harsh comments towards this camera (so did I tbh) but it sounds like you're warming up to it after trying it out!

The overheating is really dependent on the ambient temperature and how long you shoot. 65 degrees is pretty mild/cool and shooting 10s to 2mn clips with intervals isn't going to stress it much either. This camera might turn out to be ideal for your particular needs/shooting style but I'd be curious on your feedback on a warmer day (+75F). 

 

 

[markr041]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Interesting, you had some pretty harsh comments towards this camera (so did I tbh) but it sounds like you're warming up to it after trying it out!

The overheating is really dependent on the ambient temperature and how long you shoot. 65 degrees is pretty mild/cool and shooting 10s to 2mn clips with intervals isn't going to stress it much either. This camera might turn out to be ideal for your particular needs/shooting style but I'd be curious on your feedback on a warmer day (+75F). 

 

 

I agree that ambient temperature really matters - even the Sony manual reports shot durations by ambient temperature, which shows a real gradient. I would have wanted to shoot in a hotter setting, but I cannot control the weather!

I will be disappearing into China for 4 weeks tomorrow and I was seeking the smallest rig possible, which got me interested in the ZV E1. I had two days to try it out (delivered yesterday) - I will be facing some days in China in the 80's (F).

I was very pleasantly surprised by the camera. It is actually hard to go back to the "old" technology!

It is the fx30 + Sony 18-70 f4 lens versus the ZV E1 + Sony 28-60 lens. I prefer the 18-70 lens because it is faster and has a larger range, but that combo with the fx30 is just much larger. And an equivalent range and aperture lens on a full-frame is a monster. The compact 28-60 has good quality, though. I will take one faster prime for night, likely the small Sony FE 24 f2.8. That is fast enough for the ZV E1 sensor for any light.

A key advantage of the ZV E1 too is the built-in mic and deadcat - no need for an eternal mic mounted on the camera with a deadcat, which basically makes one look like a professional, but adds no real extra quality in audio. There were some folks at the park with cameras and mounted mics and they attracted attention. But no one cared about my tiny camera. I was also considering using the white version, so no one could possibly take me seriously.

I do have experience with overheating cameras - I shot 8K RAW video with the Canon R5 in summer before the firmware update that extended durations. In those days, the limit was 5 minutes! I could take similar videos as above. The most important trick was to turn off the camera after each shot (I did not do that with the ZV E1). Cameras now turn on instantly so this is not a real constraint, and one just gets used to shoot, turn off, see something, turn on and shoot, turn off. Shade is a friend, and so is a breeze, so when I walked with the camera from place to place I would swing my arm with the camera so air rushed by it like a fan. It all worked and became second nature. So I think I am prepared for the worst.

Btw, setting up the camera using the menus to suit my preferences (button/dial assignments etc.) took 10 minutes and the camera got hot - this really scared me. Others have reported this phenomenon (one person experienced the camera turning off). But it appears this says nothing about actually shooting with the camera. It is odd though.

[Django]

2 hours ago, markr041 said:

I agree that ambient temperature really matters - even the Sony manual reports shot durations by ambient temperature, which shows a real gradient. I would have wanted to shoot in a hotter setting, but I cannot control the weather!

I will be disappearing into China for 4 weeks tomorrow and I was seeking the smallest rig possible, which got me interested in the ZV E1. I had two days to try it out (delivered yesterday) - I will be facing some days in China in the 80's (F).

I was very pleasantly surprised by the camera. It is actually hard to go back to the "old" technology!

It is the fx30 + Sony 18-70 f4 lens versus the ZV E1 + Sony 28-60 lens. I prefer the 18-70 lens because it is faster and has a larger range, but that combo with the fx30 is just much larger. And an equivalent range and aperture lens on a full-frame is a monster. The compact 28-60 has good quality, though. I will take one faster prime for night, likely the small Sony FE 24 f2.8. That is fast enough for the ZV E1 sensor for any light.

A key advantage of the ZV E1 too is the built-in mic and deadcat - no need for an eternal mic mounted on the camera with a deadcat, which basically makes one look like a professional, but adds no real extra quality in audio. There were some folks at the park with cameras and mounted mics and they attracted attention. But no one cared about my tiny camera. I was also considering using the white version, so no one could possibly take me seriously.

I do have experience with overheating cameras - I shot 8K RAW video with the Canon R5 in summer before the firmware update that extended durations. In those days, the limit was 5 minutes! I could take similar videos as above. The most important trick was to turn off the camera after each shot (I did not do that with the ZV E1). Cameras now turn on instantly so this is not a real constraint, and one just gets used to shoot, turn off, see something, turn on and shoot, turn off. Shade is a friend, and so is a breeze, so when I walked with the camera from place to place I would swing my arm with the camera so air rushed by it like a fan. It all worked and became second nature. So I think I am prepared for the worst.

Btw, setting up the camera using the menus to suit my preferences (button/dial assignments etc.) took 10 minutes and the camera got hot - this really scared me. Others have reported this phenomenon (one person experienced the camera turning off). But it appears this says nothing about actually shooting with the camera. It is odd though.

Yeah I had similar experience with the R6, learned how to get around overheat but it was a constant stress and I vouched never again but for casual shooting, travel etc was never really a concern. The ZV-E1 during my one hour test did shut off while in the menus with no warning which is what made me think initially the battery had died, but it was still on default normal temp setting. When set to high I didn't get an overheat warning but I didn't stress the camera much.

I've done some gigs in China with an FS7 + A7iii. Needless to say the A7 was the only camera used in public. Looks like you'll be able to put the ZV-E1 through its paces on your tip. Don't forget to grab a VPN beforehand so you can access google and such and hopefully give us some feedback! Safe travels.

[markr041]

5 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah I had similar experience with the R6, learned how to get around overheat but it was a constant stress and I vouched never again but for casual shooting, travel etc was never really a concern. The ZV-E1 during my one hour test did shut off while in the menus with no warning which is what made me think initially the battery had died, but it was still on default normal temp setting. When set to high I didn't get an overheat warning but I didn't stress the camera much.

I've done some gigs in China with an FS7 + A7iii. Needless to say the A7 was the only camera used in public. Looks like you'll be able to put the ZV-E1 through its paces on your tip. Don't forget to grab a VPN beforehand so you can access google and such and hopefully give us some feedback! Safe travels.

Thanks.

One last one before leaving, in the sun and 70 F. The sun on the camera does warm it up. But it never got hot.

 

[FHDcrew]

Speaking of new Sony releases...how about old Sony bodies!  Zach Mayfield looked at an older A7SII recently and found the color held up well in Davinci Resolve provided you don't underexpose.  It seems like with how optimized and powerful Davinci Resolve is, you can honestly push 8 bit SLOG footage pretty far!  I imagine a lot of people would be just fine working with 8-bit SLOG in a color-managed Davinici Resolve workflow!

 

[FHDcrew]

This was shot in SLOG3 BTW.  Almost makes me start to think a used A7III is a good deal in 2023...

[Django]

4 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Speaking of new Sony releases...how about old Sony bodies!  Zach Mayfield looked at an older A7SII recently and found the color held up well in Davinci Resolve provided you don't underexpose.  It seems like with how optimized and powerful Davinci Resolve is, you can honestly push 8 bit SLOG footage pretty far!  I imagine a lot of people would be just fine working with 8-bit SLOG in a color-managed Davinici Resolve workflow!

The A7Sii was quite seminal being the first FF 4K mirrorless with IBIS that could literally see in the dark. Noise was never an issue with that camera since it had such great low-light performance across the ISO field. The real problem with these earlier A7 cams was the horrible AWB in mixed lighting combined with so-so CS. Andrew had a classic hilarious YT video about the A7Sii zombie skin tones. Sure you could somewhat correct it in Davinci but 8-bit really isn't the best for heavy color correction not to mention the waste of time. Daylight shooting not so much an issue but the camera had a few other cons brought up in that video such as slow AF, harsh highlight roll-off, poor battery life, build quality issues etc. 

Still for the current used price its a great little budget camera if you find one in not too battered state (they honestly haven't held up well) and don't shoot much mixed lighting. 

 

4 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

This was shot in SLOG3 BTW.  Almost makes me start to think a used A7III is a good deal in 2023...

The A7iii fixes most of the A7Sii issues both in build, battery life but also AWB/CS. Also uses oversampled 4K for more detailed current IQ. But they still go for +$1.5K used. Not bad but not phenomenal considering you can now get a 10-bit cam for not a lot more from other manufacturers.. 

[Kisaha]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:18 PM, Django said:

Interesting, you had some pretty harsh comments towards this camera (so did I tbh) but it sounds like you're warming up to it after trying it out!

The overheating is really dependent on the ambient temperature and how long you shoot. 65 degrees is pretty mild/cool and shooting 10s to 2mn clips with intervals isn't going to stress it much either. This camera might turn out to be ideal for your particular needs/shooting style but I'd be curious on your feedback on a warmer day (+75F). 

 

 

I told you!

The camera is great for the intended use, as the R8 is also. 

They both aren't hardcore pro tools for really long takes but they will have their place in many peoples hands..

[Emanuel]

  

On 5/5/2023 at 4:16 AM, newfoundmass said:

Lol, this stuff is ridiculous. 

Really? I don't find any workaround ridiculous unless to the manufacturer, I do agree.

  

On 5/4/2023 at 1:33 PM, ntblowz said:

This guy managed to get 4K60p recording from 40min to over 1hr 40min with this fan kit

Who exactly? The link please?

I wonder how much will overheat when recording 4K 120fps...

[PannySVHS]

On 5/7/2023 at 11:07 AM, Django said:

The A7iii fixes most of the A7Sii issues both in build, battery life but also AWB/CS. Also uses oversampled 4K for more detailed current IQ. But they still go for +$1.5K used. Not bad but not phenomenal considering you can now get a 10-bit cam for not a lot more from other manufacturers.. 

I had done videowork with the A7S2, filming an exhibition in a large hall in daylight. Filming 400ISO, REC709, 4K. Material was full of artefacts compared to a humble Lumix GH4. Grading was tricky. Wouldnt recommend a A7s2, unless as a specialty camera for low light or good dynamic range in sunlight.

You get a modern 10bit camera, color marvel and lowlight beast for below 1000 EUR in used but very good condition. The Lumix S5.  @Django

[markr041]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

I had done videowork with the A7S2, filming an exhibition in a large hall in daylight. Filming 400ISO, REC709, 4K. Material was full of artefacts compared to a humble Lumix GH4. Grading was tricky. Wouldnt recommend a A7s2, unless as a specialty camera for low light or good dynamic range in sunlight.

You get a modern 10bit camera, color marvel and lowlight beast for below 1000 EUR in used but very good condition. The Lumix S5.  @Django

S5 is great. But, an APS-C crop in 4K 60p and really bad AF - it loses focus, and it goes back and forth. Also the 4K 60p crop is in S5 ii and iix.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Really? I don't find any workaround ridiculous unless to the manufacturer, I do agree.

I think it's ridiculous that people need to even come up with their own solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with. That's just me though!