Sony New Camera Launch - 29th March 2023

[markr041]

The Wetlands of Hangzhou:

The kit lens. 87 degrees F. No overheating.

[Llaasseerr]

18 hours ago, Django said:

Same guy got the camera to overheat in an indoor test.. in Canada. But not in the African heat, albeit covered from direct sunlight on a windy day. He actually also did an overheat test with one of those small fans blowing right on the camera and it passed so air flow seems like the key to manage thermals. I'm still way too skeptical to drop 2699€ on something that seems to require natural or artificial ventilation to beat overheating but these findings sure are fascinating!

Definitely interesting findings. I really liked the look of this camera for about a week (lol) as a kind of lower stakes FX3, but after the latest FX3 firmware updates, I'm back in on that.

I'm super interested to see how the upcoming 120p plays out, also given these observations about the thermal behaviour. I wish it wasn't 119.88, but I don't think there's true 120p available in the FX3 or FX6 either, sadly.

[Emanuel]

Agreed and here is the one:

I have a bookmark folder over here so feel free to ask me about. If I will buy it is because it is safe ; )

C'mon, prone to not scare the ladies on the rig! LOL By the way, the trick now is to find some silent one! : D

[markr041]

Likely my last travel video from China. The small camera was a success, in not attracting attention, not overheating, and grabbing high-quality images.

 

[ntblowz]

I actually bought the fan

[markr041]

Seriously, guys. Overheating? Do you take long, boring takes from one position? That's what you shoot?

I have shot short boring takes in all sorts of hot, muggy conditions and the camera did not even get warm.

Anyway, for the first bright sunny day since I acquired the camera, I used the upgraded Sony FE 24-105 G lens to shoot an HDR video. New lens firmware, out last November, is alleged to have improved stabilization coordination with the A7R V - but since the ZV E1 has the exact same processors as that camera, I thought I would try the lens out.

And no overheating. I guess I have to keep saying this...

[kye]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

Seriously, guys. Overheating? Do you take long, boring takes from one position? That's what you shoot?

I have shot short boring takes in all sorts of hot, muggy conditions and the camera did not even get warm.

Anyway, for the first bright sunny day since I acquired the camera, I used the upgraded Sony FE 24-105 G lens to shoot an HDR video. New lens firmware, out last November, is alleged to have improved stabilization coordination with the A7R V - but since the ZV E1 has the exact same processors as that camera, I thought I would try the lens out.

And no overheating. I guess I have to keep saying this...

Quite a few people on here are filming things like weddings or concerts where you need to run multiple cameras for a long time and have them run unsupervised because they're operating a roaming camera while the others are rolling.  In these situations it's not uncommon for each camera to need to record for an hour or more, sometimes in full sun, without encountering any issues.  If you are shooting a wedding with three cameras and one of them shuts down after 25 minutes then you're potentially screwed in the edit.  

I've watched wedding videographers edit a 3-camera multi-cam from a wedding ceremony and even though they didn't have a camera overheat and stop working, there were points in the edit when two of their three camera angles were unusable and they were down to one usable angle.  Had that camera overheated, they'd have been down to zero (or forced to use the angle that was setup when everyone was sitting but in the moment that everyone stood up it just showed the backs of the people sitting in the back row - not exactly a professional moment).

Add to this the fact that in these situations it's useful to have identical cameras so that all the lenses and cards and accessories are all interchangeable.  So if one camera is at risk of overheating then it isn't impossible to have multiple cameras overheat, which would well and truly screw you.

Besides, 87F is pathetic in terms of overheating tests....  I have overheated an iPhone before because it was 107F, I was recording clips that were several minutes long, it was in full sun, and the brightness of the screen was up full so that I could see what I was pointing the camera at.  I literally submerged half of it in a river to cool it down because I was missing moments (the people swimming in the river).  You can't do that with most cameras, and if they overheated without them being attended, you'd never know until it was too late.

One thing that causes almost all the head-scratching (and starts almost all the arguments) is when one person cannot understand that someone else uses their equipment differently, to achieve a different result, for a different audience.  I suggest you start paying closer attention to how people talk about their camera choices - video is one of those fields where there are lots of ways of doing things and where techniques from one approach can be really handy to understand in your own work which might be very different.

[PannySVHS]

To me, your videos have a consistent appearance regarding colour, subjects, rhythm within shot, movement in x and z dimensions, shot size. Parts of your oevre seem to have shaped in front of our eyes over the last six months with many videos, proving your taste and style, showing various technical aspects of modern Sony hybrid cameras. No reason to put yourself down by calling your shots short and boring. Nor are there convincing reasons to assume we would do long and boring shots. I know, when I come to this thread, that you will keep delivering videos on a regular pace with similar parameters in image and Mise en Scène. Still I would not assume, that  your display shows everything about how you approach the moving image. @markr041

[markr041]

10 minutes ago, kye said:

Quite a few people on here are filming things like weddings or concerts where you need to run multiple cameras for a long time and have them run unsupervised because they're operating a roaming camera while the others are rolling.  In these situations it's not uncommon for each camera to need to record for an hour or more, sometimes in full sun, without encountering any issues.  If you are shooting a wedding with three cameras and one of them shuts down after 25 minutes then you're potentially screwed in the edit.  

I've watched wedding videographers edit a 3-camera multi-cam from a wedding ceremony and even though they didn't have a camera overheat and stop working, there were points in the edit when two of their three camera angles were unusable and they were down to one usable angle.  Had that camera overheated, they'd have been down to zero (or forced to use the angle that was setup when everyone was sitting but in the moment that everyone stood up it just showed the backs of the people sitting in the back row - not exactly a professional moment).

Add to this the fact that in these situations it's useful to have identical cameras so that all the lenses and cards and accessories are all interchangeable.  So if one camera is at risk of overheating then it isn't impossible to have multiple cameras overheat, which would well and truly screw you.

Besides, 87F is pathetic in terms of overheating tests....  I have overheated an iPhone before because it was 107F, I was recording clips that were several minutes long, it was in full sun, and the brightness of the screen was up full so that I could see what I was pointing the camera at.  I literally submerged half of it in a river to cool it down because I was missing moments (the people swimming in the river).  You can't do that with most cameras, and if they overheated without them being attended, you'd never know until it was too late.

One thing that causes almost all the head-scratching (and starts almost all the arguments) is when one person cannot understand that someone else uses their equipment differently, to achieve a different result, for a different audience.  I suggest you start paying closer attention to how people talk about their camera choices - video is one of those fields where there are lots of ways of doing things and where techniques from one approach can be really handy to understand in your own work which might be very different.

I am not the "one person" who does not understand the different uses of cameras and techniques.

What I do not understand is why anyone thinks this camera is suited for mounting on a tripod and shooting video for an hour. Nothing wrong with the use, what is wrong is thinking this camera is at all suited for this purpose. Get over it already. It is not. 

There is no point acquiring a camera whose most important feature is compactness for mounting on a tripod and shooting video for an hour. Obviously. Get an fx3 and be done with it, already.

The ZV E1 camera is for portability, handheld use. For relatively short takes; not 5 seconds, but not 10 minutes either. In any temperature. Would I prioritize the camera in non-pathetic 105 F temperature? No.

 

[markr041]

2 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

To me, your videos have a consistent appearance regarding colour, subjects, rhythm within shot, movement in x and z dimensions, shot size. Parts of your oevre seem to have shaped in front of our eyes over the last six months with many videos, proving your taste and style, showing various technical aspects of modern Sony hybrid cameras. No reason to put yourself down by calling your shots short and boring. Nor are there convincing reasons to assume we would do long and boring shots. I know, when I come to this thread, that you will keep delivering videos on a regular pace with similar parameters in image and Mise en Scène. Still I would not assume, that  your display shows everything about how you approach the moving image. @markr041

I was being ironic with the term boring (although I did have one poster in one forum constantly stating that for every one of my videos!). I just wanted not to appear to be saying my videos are superior in any way. They are just examples exploiting the key features of the ZV E1, like them or not.

My point is merely that the ZV E1's key feature is portability (small size, best-in-class stabilization for movement), and mounting it on a tripod in any temperature is not its intended use (despite what Sony marketing is trying to say).

The obsession with overheating seems to arise from use of the camera for which it is not suited, and one can get exactly the same quality from an available alternative - the fx3, which has a fan - for long static takes in any environment. I get such video has an important purpose, but I also get that that purpose is exactly not what the ZV E1 is for.

Do NOT purchase or rent the ZV E1 for static long takes of 4K 60p video. Save the money you would have spent on fans and other cooling devices for an fx3 if you like the look of the ZV E1. You do not need Dynamic Active Stabilization or compactness, although you will miss AI-assisted tracking (which is really better than the tracking on the fx3).

[ntblowz]

E1 is definitely not the target audience for people who are on this forum, youtube is definitely is. 

Having said that, a fan and e1 and a lens still cost way less than a fx3, and times that by 3 the price difference is quite a lot. 

And seriously is that all you shoot? Just a bunch of random video with random strangers doing their own stuff that give you voyeuristic feel? Especially if you want something small so people don't notice that you are filming them in secret?

[markr041]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

E1 is definitely not the target audience for people who are on this forum, youtube is definitely is. 

Having said that, a fan and e1 and a lens still cost way less than a fx3, and times that by 3 the price difference is quite a lot. 

And seriously is that all you shoot? Just a bunch of random video with random strangers doing their own stuff that give you voyeuristic feel? Especially if you want something small so people don't notice that you are filming them in secret?

Ok, feel good now about your comment on my videos? Think this makes your defense of using a fan to make the ZV E1 a strap-down long-video camera more credible? I thought it was a joke. But you are actually so lacking resources for what you do professionally that you are serious?

It must be very frustrating to be so unsuccessful in life that you cannot afford an fx3 when it is evident you need one. I don't actually think you cannot afford whatever eqipment you need, and you are just being contrarian, right?

I would love to shoot a bts video of the fan technique, but it would be embarrassing, and I never shoot anyone to embarrass them.

Meanwhile, I will enjoy making random videos of random people, whether some like them or not. With suitable equipment.

[kye]

7 hours ago, markr041 said:

I am not the "one person" who does not understand the different uses of cameras and techniques.

What I do not understand is why anyone thinks this camera is suited for mounting on a tripod and shooting video for an hour. Nothing wrong with the use, what is wrong is thinking this camera is at all suited for this purpose. Get over it already. It is not. 

There is no point acquiring a camera whose most important feature is compactness for mounting on a tripod and shooting video for an hour. Obviously. Get an fx3 and be done with it, already.

The ZV E1 camera is for portability, handheld use. For relatively short takes; not 5 seconds, but not 10 minutes either. In any temperature. Would I prioritize the camera in non-pathetic 105 F temperature? No.

 

Oops, I thought we were discussing film-making.

Feel free to go back to telling other people how they should film, what equipment they should have, how they should run their businesses, etc...  sorry I interrupted.  My bad!

[markr041]

4 minutes ago, kye said:

Oops, I thought we were discussing film-making.

Feel free to go back to telling other people how they should film, what equipment they should have, how they should run their businesses, etc...  sorry I interrupted.  My bad!

Really, this about film-making? This thread is about a specific camera, and what it can do and what it cannot. And what it cannot do is shoot long takes in 4K at 60 fps. It overheats.

You think it is a good idea to use a compact camera with heat issues and a noisy external fan for taking long clips when there is an obviously better alternative? I guess you are right, as a  film maker. And the camera has one card slot. You want to bet your advance on using such a camera for a client? 

"Film making". Seriously, making a "film" with a ZV E1 for static long takes? 

It's a great travel camera for video. Tested. But, film-making! Really?

Btw, I liked the discussion on sensors and processors and color science and dynamic range. Useful.

If you disagree with an argument, sarcasm is not useful.

 

[PannySVHS]

FX3 was a joy to grade under daylight conditions. ZV1 fits that same bill image wise. If usuability and reliability is not worse than a solid entry level Lumix G6,7,80 or GX85 it would indeed be a highly interesting camera. Since the S5ii is already of proven S series robustness, I would go for that one, despite being S35 instead FF for 4K50p. CineD tested the dynamic range to be as good in S35 as in "full frame". With deezids findings regarding BRaw, we are reaching Alexa quality of the cinematic image. ZV E1 has an appeal though. Warming up to it, if it's not heating up under set life conditions.😊 Not buying one but using one would seem super fun.

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

Ok, feel good now about your comment on my videos? Think this makes your defense of using a fan to make the ZV E1 a strap-down long-video camera more credible? I thought it was a joke. But you are actually so lacking resources for what you do professionally that you are serious?

It must be very frustrating to be so unsuccessful in life that you cannot afford an fx3 when it is evident you need one. I don't actually think you cannot afford whatever eqipment you need, and you are just being contrarian, right?

I would love to shoot a bts video of the fan technique, but it would be embarrassing, and I never shoot anyone to embarrass them.

Meanwhile, I will enjoy making random videos of random people, whether some like them or not. With suitable equipment.

I see you like to make yourself superior by looking others who are less fortunate in terms of finance, but sorry i m just sick of you attacking people who use camera that doesn't use the same way as you do.

Of course for you it always about you you and you, it easy to see based on your comment, I wonder what happend to your life, no wonder on dpreview no one gives a shit about the all those video post you posted.

[PannySVHS]

I think there is a misunderstanding going on here. I don't patronize you guys, still wish we all would find back to kindness. We are pretty kewl people and a bit cheek in tongue shall not lead to hurts. I try to do the same.

[ntblowz]

22 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

I think there is a misunderstanding going on here. I don't patronize you guys, still wish we all would find back to kindness. We are pretty kewl people and a bit cheek in tongue shall not lead to hurts. I try to do the same.

I actually got a few project coming up that I m gonna try with E1 instead of using C70/R5C.

 

I think i've gone overboard with my response and can't edit those post anymore so I m just gonna move on.

[PannySVHS]

Looking forward to your work and findings with it. @ntblowz Really liked the colour response of the FX3 under natural light. Always had difficulties with my S1 in those scenarios to achieve the look I was looking for in color grading. Great neutral palette but a bit tame. On the other hand the S1 impressed me a big deal in lit settings, even with simple set ups or illuminated with  practicals.

[Emanuel]

Better to not focus on the filmmaking technique or style of the shooter, only the camera he/she/they shoot is useful over here to such findings we're looking for on this thread about a new tool release, I guess.

We can always go somewhere else to discuss aesthetics, I think.

:- )