Would anyone like to buy my A7S

[zenpmd]

Ive decided its not for me, as I'd rather carry on for now with the 5dmk3. Its a Panamosz grey import. Only for about a week total. Please PM me if so.

 

Cheers

Paul

[zenpmd]

This is still for sale, in mint condition. £1100 posted.

[lafilm]

Why is it not for you?

 

What don't you like about it?

 

As you must know, it's superior to the 5D3 in nearly every way

[mojo43]

As you must know, it's superior to the 5D3 in nearly every way

 

Not sure if that is true

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

If you can give us some insight on why you preferred to keep the 5D instead of the A7s it would be very helpful. Was it the colours and/or stills? Good luck on the sale.

[Damphousse]

Gentlemen, I think the polite thing to do is to let Paul sell his camera in peace.  There are plenty of other threads to discuss the Canon 5D MK III vs Sony a7s.  None of these cameras is perfect and I think in a lot of ways it just comes down to personal preference.

[/p/]

Not sure if that is true

 

[IronFilm]

Am curious too as to why zenpmd doesn't like the A7s over the 5Dmk3.... as that is very unusual, because the A7s looks so much better to film with!

[jcs]

Am curious too as to why zenpmd doesn't like the A7s over the 5Dmk3.... as that is very unusual, because the A7s looks so much better to film with!

 

If one is willing to work with the large files and extra workflow, 5D3 14-bit RAW is far better than the A7S except for very low light. The A7S dynamic range advantage doesn't offset the superior 14-bit Canon color science, especially for people/skin.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Since you use both jcs, how do you think they compare in each image parameter, like

-Resolution
-Dynamic range amount
-Highlight and shadow rolloff
-Colour fedility, srtength and colour science
-Noise amount at low & high ISOs
-Noise pattern, structure, motion
-Digital artefacts (rolling shutter, aliasing, moire, etc)

not looking for a deep detailed answer just X is as good/better/worse than Z in each parameter.

I am talking about shooting 1080p raw to the CF cards on the 5D and shooting 1080p XAVC-S to SD card on the A7s

[zenpmd]

Its on ebay no so no worries.

 

The video image is so lovely from it, but:

 

1. Get rid of it now and wait for IBIS version

2. Camera ergonomics suck for stills

3. Want bigger EVF

4. Blue colour clipping worries

5.  Very bad low light AF - worse than fuji for stills (yet oddly better than fuji in good light)

 

I seriously recommend the 50mm 1.8 though. Insane lens

[jcs]

Since you use both jcs, how do you think they compare in each image parameter, like

-Resolution
-Dynamic range amount
-Highlight and shadow rolloff
-Colour fedility, srtength and colour science
-Noise amount at low & high ISOs
-Noise pattern, structure, motion
-Digital artefacts (rolling shutter, aliasing, moire, etc)

not looking for a deep detailed answer just X is as good/better/worse than Z in each parameter.

I am talking about shooting 1080p raw to the CF cards on the 5D and shooting 1080p XAVC-S to SD card on the A7s

- Resolution: would expect the A7S to win a chart test however both provide sufficient detail at 1080p.

- Dynamic Range: A7S only for extreme cases,in practice 5D3 is more than enough, especially if using Highlight/Shadow with ACR.

- Highlight and Shadow rolloff: 5D3 can be much more filmic, depending on how it's post processed. ACR can do amazing things; Resolve and mlrawviewer also look great (ProRes or DNG).

- Color: no contest: 14-bit 5D3 RAW has been called 'Baby Alexa', especially for people/skintones.

- Noise: A7S wins since RAW has not been denoised. 5D3 has more fixed pattern noise; sometimes 5D3 vertical stripe correction (now available in mlrawviewer) can be helpful (lower light shots). If using Neat Video (or ACR NR) the final results then lean toward 5D3 RAW. 5D3 RAW looks more filmic and organic with or without denoising.

-Digital artifacts: RS is much worse on A7S (FF), 5D3 RAW is pretty much alias and moire free, A7S has some though very rare. Overall, 5D3 RAW looks more organic and 'ARRI-like'.

 

When using a magnified 2.5x loupe on the 5D3, ML provides better focus peaking.

A7S audio is cleaner than 5D3 audio (though not bad with a good preamp).

[Tim Naylor]

Own A7s. Had a 5D3. Never used ML on jobs for variety of reasons. Sometimes I wonder about my decision to get rid of 5d3. For stills it's far superior. For video, I find the colors of 5d3 in a different league than A7s. While A7s is better for me in almost every other category (DR and resolution), it wouldn't surprise me if you showed a side by side clip to a regular audience member or client, they may very well prefer the 5d3. Most humans don't care about resolution. They do sense when colors are off. I did a similar blind test between  F55, Dragon and Alexa projected in front of producers and the director for a feature I shot last Summer. Alexa won unanimously, Dragon 2nd and F55 last. Despite the Alexa being 2k, the others 6k and 4k, the skin tones won the day.

[zenpmd]

Agreed Tim. Although it sounds like a fanboy thing to say, Nikon (using Sony sensors) are the same. With stills, Canon's WB is perfect EVERYTIME also. Nikons you can spot a mile off.

[Tim Naylor]

Agreed Tim. Although it sounds like a fanboy thing to say, Nikon (using Sony sensors) are the same. With stills, Canon's WB is perfect EVERYTIME also. Nikons you can spot a mile off.

Just when I think I've unlocked good flesh tones on my A7s, then I look at my 5d3 footage and know I've got more work to do.

[zenpmd]

Having said that, I did love the a7s footage in all other respects - straight out of the camera it looked lovely: clean and sharp

[Inazuma]

Am I the only one that thinks the colours out of the A7s look fine/great? Every time I see a Canon video I can tell straight away because they have a stale coloured, mushy DSLR look with plasticky skin and grass that is too green. Am I mad?

[zenpmd]

I do think people get used to the Canon "look" - like someones taste in ketchup - everything else seems bad, but in reality it isnt, just different.

[jcs]

Here's a 5D3 RAW handheld focus test with skintones and grass:

 

A wide variety of grass, animals, and colors:

 

I have been using the A7S and GH4 lately, however if I need the absolute best quality for color, 5D3 RAW is the way to go. Panasonic (including the GH4 and especially the new Varicam) also provide better color than Sony. My ranking goes something like this for color (motion pictures):

 

Film (Kodak EXR 100T 5248), ARRI, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic (Varicam), Red (Dragon), Sony (F55 through A7S)*

 

Sony cameras can do pleasing color, however it's not consistent and can be tricky to get skintones to look right in all but sunlight and incandescent light. With the A7S I have been making sure the colors look as good as possible in camera by carefully exposing for skintones and tweaking white balance. Trying to fix color in post is time consuming (and sometimes impossible for skintones). In cases when working fast or just needing good coverage, the A7S works well as a video camera (everything on full auto).

 

If Canon were to release a 5D3 successor with full 1080p, 60+fps, and a modern codec (as good or better than GH4 and A7S), lots of folks would switch back for the color science. The full frame 5D has a look not captured by Canon's Cx00 line (1DC is due for upgrade too). In the meantime, if you've got the time and disk space, 5D3 14-bit RAW is here now, and is the best image for color this side of an ARRI Alexa/Amira.

 

* The F65 as graded in Oblivion was stunningly beautiful color, detail, and very filmic. Not many folks are using the F65 due to size/weight and real-world production cost. The F35 is also popular with some indie filmmakers. In Hollywood and now Atlanta (Hollywood 2.0), ARRI is the most used camera.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

That's a great discussion. Really puts some things into prespective. If it wasn't for the colours I would have been shooting on an a7s for months now. But I am too sensitive to colour science that even the GH4 didn't work for me (which is leaps and bounds better than the Sonys)

I am still waiting for the first one to do a colour science test between these cameras, hopefully the 5D, a7s, GH4, and the standard. The test is simple, just film a face with the cameras and post raw ungraded files for colourists to go crazy with! Would be ideal if it's done under different lights.