Thoughts on the D600?

[Inazuma]

Hey guys

I am thinking about getting a Nikon D600. I know this is a bit crazy coming from me, who has advocated shooting with the little Panasonic GX7 for a while now. But here's my take: I've been wanting to use a large aperture zoom lens with autofocus for photography for ages. I have a Tokina 28-70mm f2.8 and a 80-200mm f2.8 so I'm already set for lenses. A used D600 goes for about 750 quid these days, which is just ridiculous really. I can buy a d5300 and 17-50mm f2.8 for about the same price and I know that camera has better video (no aliasing/moire, bigger screen and 60fps) but the d600, at least from looking at dpreview's comparison gallery, looks about a stop better in low light (ie. iso 3200 on the d600 looks similar to iso 1600 on the d5300) and simply handles better as a stills camera (viewfinder, buttons, menus etc). My question is, how does that convert in video? Does the higher DR and iso capability transfer? What kind of real world differences will I expect coming from a GX7?

 

Some other things I found while reading this: http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/nikon-d600-digital-camera-review/video

• Apparently it resolves 750 lp/ph horizontally and vertically. The d5300 resolves 700 lp/ph whilst my GX7 resolves 800 horizontally but 625 vertically.
• D600 was able to produce a 50 IRE video image using only 4 lux of ambient illumination; same as the d5300. While the GX7 requires 17 lux, which I think might explain some things I have noticed about its tonality.

Some other things I'd like to know: can you monitor video via hdmi whilst recording to the camera? Can you record via hdmi?

 

What are people's experiences with the hack on Nikon cameras which increases the internal bitrate? Is it stable? Does it actually make a difference to your ability to grade?

 

Any other thoughts you have?

[Nikkor]

Horrible video, only for photos. Btw, the low light performance on line skipping sensors is always lower (1-2stops)

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

That camera has very ugly aliasing and moire in video mode, it makes unusable for ''me'', but if you're not that bothered by these artefacts it's a great video camera with a full frame aesthetic, excellent colours and low light performance. When used for close ups of objects and people for shallow dof beauty shots it's a very strong camera, but wide landscapes, god it's hedious. It's of course one of the best stills cameras out there. If I could find it at that price here I would add it even simply for high-end stills and close up video shooting. 

and yes you can monitor and record the hdmi signal, it's clean & uncompressed.

[Cinegain]

Didn't the D600 have an issue where the shutter caused contamination to the sensor or something?

You'd then have to go with sensor swabs or send it back. This was fixed with the D610, which otherwise was a minor upgrade (650D/700D-like).

[dahlfors]

Didn't the D600 have an issue where the shutter caused contamination to the sensor or something?

You'd then have to go with sensor swabs or send it back. This was fixed with the D610, which otherwise was a minor upgrade (650D/700D-like).

 

The sensor spot issue seemed pretty widespread and serious on D600, yes. If you for real consider a D600, I'd suggest reading up on the end result of that debacle on dpreview, nikonrumors and other suitable forums. I have a memory reading that some D600 users had to send back cameras many times - and after the 4th time Nikon sent out a D610. Perhaps that's Nikon's procedure, perhaps not. Expect that there could be oil spot issues with a D600 at least.

 

I love full frame as well, but I'd personally suggest waiting for used D800 prices to drop (they are low already for what you get, but not at D600 price levels). Or perhaps wait for the prices of D750 to come down a bit and go for that one.

[dafreaking]

If you can, try and save for the D750. It is definitely worth it.

[Nikkor]

The d600 has the same shitty expeed processing as the d800 and the d7000,d5100. The image in videomode doesn't have the same look as the newer nikons because that processor had serious bottlenecks and cripples the highlights and a few other things.

[Inazuma]

Thanks for the info :) Going to cross this from the list (at least for video)

[maxotics]

The d600 is a monster stills camera (as good as it gets IMHO).  Just in case someone didn't say above, remember you can't change the aperture once recording video.  But again, a killer full-frame stills camera.  Body built like a tank.  Because my eyes aren't as good, I'm shooting with an a7 (focus peaking, etc).  A full-frame line skips more than an APS-C size camera, so you gain shallow DOF but pick up more aliasing issues.  I did some tests again the g5 and though the d600 had better color (expected, less noise) it wasn't sharp.  You will probably find the same.  The d600 will do better in low light for you, and will have better color, shallow DOF, but for straight-forward filming where you want sharp good exposure, the gx7 will do better.  Bottom line, I wouldn't recommend the d600 for video only, but if you shoot any stills and haven't shot full-frame before, then you are in for a treat!  

 

The hack is interesting, in motion shooting, intra-frame stuff, it probably improves stuff a bit.  But does nothing I could tell in general IQ.  Again, a good camera to compliment the gx7.  I don't want to be flamed, but no MFT camera can hold a candle to the d600 in stills.

 

Here's the d600 with the Tokina 28-70 2.8.  

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxotics/sets/72157634924059044/

 

Or low light with a Rokinon 85mm

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxotics/sets/72157634891578611/

[leeys]

Good stills, not great video.

 

The D600 is better than m43 in stills but you need to pair it up accordingly. If your Tokina is what I'm thinking of (SV or orange ring version), below ISO 3200 my GH3 and its 12-35/2.8 will produce better images.

[Inazuma]

My Tokina is the Angenieux 2.6-2.8 version. It's not at all sharp but it has a nice aethsthetic and I'd love to see what images it would produce in full frame. The 12-35 is a lens i want to like but there's something about the f5.6 equivalent aperture (or even 5.6 on an actual full frame camera) that I find unappealing.

 

What is the video like compared to the D800? One of my favourite independent filmmakers uses a d800 for all his stuff.

[maxotics]

The D600 is better than m43 in stills but you need to pair it up accordingly. If your Tokina is what I'm thinking of (SV or orange ring version), below ISO 3200 my GH3 and its 12-35/2.8 will produce better images.

 

I have MFT cameras, so again, am not saying they aren't great for some things.   At ISO 100, MFT and full-frame are close enough to the same.  However, you can't get the shallow DOF with MFT.  2.8 in MFT is more like 4? on Full frame.  2.8 on full-frame is like 1.0 on MFT, or less, and though you can use a speed booster, you're distorting your optics.

 

What I've discovered, Leeys, is that I CAN NEVER have enough light.  I can shoot 3200 on a GH3 and get a nice image, but not near as nice as a full-frame.  On a MFT, I might need to shoot 2.8 at 3200 to get as little noise as possible.  On the d600, I could shoot 5.6 and 6400 say and get the same quality.

 

Even if money is no object, there is no full-frame that can do what the Gx7 can do at THAT SIZE.  Power/heat needs mean that no full-frame camera can be made small enough to create video without aliasing problems.  The gx7 doesn't have that.  

 

You're right about that lens.  It's a $1,000 lens.  However, if SIZE isn't an issue (though it usually is for me), I'd rather have a full-frame for all shooting situations.  It's not about how high ISO it can do, it's about how high an f-stop or shutter speed you can use in normal ISO.  That is lost on most people who have not shot full-frame (it was lost on me).

 

Inazuma, the video really does stink, unless you're in a pinch.  Unless I wanted shallow DOF, I'd rather shoot with any Panasonic made in the past 5 years.

[Nikkor]

Good stills, not great video.

 

The D600 is better than m43 in stills but you need to pair it up accordingly. If your Tokina is what I'm thinking of (SV or orange ring version), below ISO 3200 my GH3 and its 12-35/2.8 will produce better images.

lololol

[Inazuma]

Just an update to this post. I actually have ended up getting a D600 (for just £580!). Again just to reiterate it's mainly for photography as I have two nice AF lenses but I've been wondering about its capability in video.

First of all, yes moire is very present. Haven't spotted any aliasing yet though.

Noise is really bad. Very large and colourful 'grain'. 

With the same exposure settings, the highlight retention is worse than my Panasonic GX7.

However things get a lot better when you load the Cineflat profile. You can use exposure values that technically mean you're underexposing, but in practice you're saving the highlights whilst bringing up the shadows naturally. With Panasonic cameras you can use iDynamic to raise shadows but the sensor never really 'sees' into the shadowed areas (because theyre underexposed), so the 'roll off' into blacks is quite steep.

See attached images. Sorry about the boring subjects. I just had to do some quick tests because I'll be shooting a promo with the two cameras tomorrow. 

 

[leeys]

iDynamic is horrible, I never use that on my Panasonics.

The first image looks terrible though. It's looking rather mushy, and the moire isn't helping!

That's a good price on the D600, it'd be worth it anyway just for stills alone.

 

[tdonovic]

You do realise that equivalence wise, its the same image. f2.8*2x crop = f5.6. So dof is the same. But you can shoot at one stop slower iso for a cleaner image, plus the sensor is actually good at video.  Idk guys, the only place where the d600 would win is if you want to shoot at <5.6 for the dof. Otherwise the m4/3 camera wins, surely 

[Inazuma]

The m43 camera wins for detail, punchy colour, fine grain noise and lack of moire/aliasing. The Nikon FF wins for dynamic range (only when using the cineflat profile), natural colour and shallow DOF. It's just horses for courses. Both types of camera have their uses. 

Welcome to the forum BTW :)

[Inazuma]

Hi everyone

I did a video shoot with the D600 and GX7 a few weeks ago. The d600 is really usable when you use it with a telephoto lens.

 

And here is a blog post about it http://sebcastilho.com/2015/05/24/shooting-a-video-with-two-very-different-cams-the-panasonic-gx7-and-nikon-d600/

[red]

A great read on your blog Inazuma about your experiences with the Nikon and Panasonic. The Nikon does deliver on skin tones and overall look which I always find very pleasing. Look forward to your thoughts on the D5500 post purchase. I will be pairing the D5500 with the D750 once funds allow soon.

[Sekhar]

I did a video shoot with the D600 and GX7 a few weeks ago. The d600 is really usable when you use it with a telephoto lens.

​Technical stuff aside, your video looks fun and energetic. How did you get your models to be playful and make those dance gestures? Was there music on location?