8 vs 10 bit

[SRV1981]

To what degree does this matter for you?  To bring focus to the questions let’s consider 3 scenarios:

 

1. you’re shooting weddings, events, and documentaries  output YouTube and other mediums clients want

 

2. you’re shooting narrative filming mostly and some event work as in 1  output YouTube and other mediums clients want

 

3. you’re shooting for personal use, run and gun personal docs, narratives, sports, travel. Output: YouTube 

 

 

[D Verco]

No one should choose 8bit for anything ever 

[SRV1981]

16 minutes ago, D Verco said:

No one should choose 8bit for anything ever 

Why’s that? 

[IronFilm]

56 minutes ago, D Verco said:

No one should choose 8bit for anything ever 

eh, if you're rolling for hours (days even!) covering some random small business conference in a hotel that's only going to be put on YT (or perhaps even only used internally) then 8bit is perfectly fine. 

[Benjamin Hilton]

Totally depends on your workflow. If you are shooting log and want the heavy grading workflow, in most cases 10bit is a must. If you are using a rec709 profile in camera and don't care a whole lot, then in most cases 8bit is fine. To me 10bit is simply an intermediate codec that gets us to an eventual 8bit final output, like log to rec709. 

[SRV1981]

38 minutes ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

Totally depends on your workflow. If you are shooting log and want the heavy grading workflow, in most cases 10bit is a must. If you are using a rec709 profile in camera and don't care a whole lot, then in most cases 8bit is fine. To me 10bit is simply an intermediate codec that gets us to an eventual 8bit final output, like log to rec709. 

Curious about this. Prefer baked in LUT or SOOC with minor in camera. For example if you had an a7C could you adjust magenta in video in camera and get a more “canon” look ? For runs and gun and doc stuff - wondering if a7C is better than fx30 if not doing heavy grading and taking some pics 

[Evgeniy85]

10 bit is a must if you shoot in log, in normal profiles you won't see a difference. 

[PannySVHS]

8bit 100mbit HD codec from the GH5 is pretty good for a lot of stuff. Twisting colours is pretty solid with it. 100mbit on the 4K from my GX85 is amazingly good for grading. These are in 709 acquisition. Wouldnt film VLog L in 8bit. 100mbit 4K on the A7SII was some of the worst codecs I have had to colour grade for someone. 12 444 all intra hd on the C300II can fall apart badly in bad exposure giving temporal noise reduction artefacts galore. So it´s not 8bit vs 10bit but rather the quality of codec vs codec.

[TomTheDP]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:40 PM, SRV1981 said:

Curious about this. Prefer baked in LUT or SOOC with minor in camera. For example if you had an a7C could you adjust magenta in video in camera and get a more “canon” look ? For runs and gun and doc stuff - wondering if a7C is better than fx30 if not doing heavy grading and taking some pics 

The look difference these cameras have extends past just white balance and tint differences. Shooting in REC709 isn't bad per say. Really depends on the camera's processing. I prefer organic looking noise, REC709 profiles often use aggressive NR which gets rid of all organic looking texture. Some are worse than others. Another issue is things like color clipping and highlight roll off which are sometimes handled poorly in REC709 profiles. This is why I usually prefer to shoot log.

But for fast turn around or low paying stuff where the client doesn't care a baked in look is sometimes the way to go for sure. Also if you just shoot a lot of home video or self documentary stuff, it can be nice to save the space and shoot 8 bit.

I also agree with @PannySVHS It can really depend on the camera/codec/processing. All 8 bit isn't equal, same with 10 bit.

[SRV1981]

3 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

The look difference these cameras have extends past just white balance and tint differences. Shooting in REC709 isn't bad per say. Really depends on the camera's processing. I prefer organic looking noise, REC709 profiles often use aggressive NR which gets rid of all organic looking texture. Some are worse than others. Another issue is things like color clipping and highlight roll off which are sometimes handled poorly in REC709 profiles. This is why I usually prefer to shoot log.

But for fast turn around or low paying stuff where the client doesn't care a baked in look is sometimes the way to go for sure. Also if you just shoot a lot of home video or self documentary stuff, it can be nice to save the space and shoot 8 bit.

I also agree with @PannySVHS It can really depend on the camera/codec/processing. All 8 bit isn't equal, same with 10 bit.

What cameras would be good to search on YT for good baked in looks with some flexibility in look without having to grade log?

[TomTheDP]

3 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

What cameras would be good to search on YT for good baked in looks with some flexibility in look without having to grade log?

I don't feel you really have to grade log. You can just put on a lut and adjust the exposure if you need/want.

But in terms of your question I would say it depends what other features you are looking for.

The Canon R8, FX30, or Panasonic S5 MK2 seem like good relatively budget options. If you can, renting or borrowing is the best way to really see if you like a camera as IQ is only one aspect.

[SRV1981]

1 minute ago, TomTheDP said:

I don't feel you really have to grade log. You can just put on a lut and adjust the exposure if you need/want.

But in terms of your question I would say it depends what other features you are looking for.

The Canon R8, FX30, or Panasonic S5 MK2 seem like good relatively budget options. If you can, renting or borrowing is the best way to really see if you like a camera as IQ is only one aspect.

Big knock for Canon seems to be 3rd party lenses - same for Panasonic?  Seems Sony a7iv/fx30 are a great go to for most prosumers?

[TomTheDP]

18 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Big knock for Canon seems to be 3rd party lenses - same for Panasonic?  Seems Sony a7iv/fx30 are a great go to for most prosumers?

The Panasonic has been found to work really well with adapted Canon EF lenses, which aren't super expensive compared to RF.

But yeah I would say Sony and Fuji definitely have the 3rd party options locked down. Fuji also has really nice native lens options which are often pretty well priced. Lenses is also a big factor no doubt.

[hyalinejim]

42 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

What cameras would be good to search on YT for good baked in looks with some flexibility in look without having to grade log?

Canon WideDR profile is supposed to be precisely this. You could also look into cameras that allow you to bake in LUTs.

However, something like WideDR is like a halfway house between log and a standard profile. It's probably not quite contrasty enough so you're going to end up grading anyway. And as @TomTheDP says, grading log is not difficult if you have a good LUT.

The only way you're not going to be grading is if you're shooting with an absolutely lovely profile or baked in LUT and you nail exposure and WB every time. With log you can relax a bit while you're shooting.

[IronFilm]

34 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Big knock for Canon seems to be 3rd party lenses - same for Panasonic?

Correct about Canon, totally wrong about Panasonic. They're quite open and welcoming!

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

Canon WideDR profile is supposed to be precisely this. You could also look into cameras that allow you to bake in LUTs.

However, something like WideDR is like a halfway house between log and a standard profile. It's probably not quite contrasty enough so you're going to end up grading anyway. And as @TomTheDP says, grading log is not difficult if you have a good LUT.

The only way you're not going to be grading is if you're shooting with an absolutely lovely profile or baked in LUT and you nail exposure and WB every time. With log you can relax a bit while you're shooting.

Some REC709 profiles have a surprising amount of latitude though you are 100% right log is giving you a lot more wiggle room. Clog3 from Canon is kind of like a light log for quicker grading I would say.

[Django]

Actually Clog1 is the less flat profile, followed by Clog3 and Clog2 is the flattest. Neither Clog2 or WideDR are available in non cine line cameras though.

S-Cinetone is Sony's version of a flat non log profile.

Personally, I can't ever go back to 8-bit. I actually wish we could get higher than 10-bit in hybrids. YMMV.

[newfoundmass]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:49 PM, SRV1981 said:

To what degree does this matter for you?  To bring focus to the questions let’s consider 3 scenarios:

 

1. you’re shooting weddings, events, and documentaries  output YouTube and other mediums clients want

 

2. you’re shooting narrative filming mostly and some event work as in 1  output YouTube and other mediums clients want

 

3. you’re shooting for personal use, run and gun personal docs, narratives, sports, travel. Output: YouTube 

 

 

Unless you're shooting in a log profile or doing lots of color grading 8-bit is fine. I film the majority of my event work in 8-bit because 10-bit just isn't necessary when I don't need to do a ton of corrections. I film in the natural color profile on my Lumix cameras, set my custom white balance, and I'm good to go.

10-bit is great to have for narrative, commercial, and even corporate/interviews where you're going for a certain "look." It is also very good for green screen work. Since getting the Lumix S5 and full v-log I've filmed more in 10 bit. I really like it, but it's just not necessary for a lot of stuff.