Sony lack of firmware updates is getting completely ridiculous!

[Fairkid]

10 hours ago, markr041 said:

That's perfectly reasonable. But, 4K DCI  and 24.0p do affect the image, as do focus breathing compensation and allegedly the EI options. LUT use for baking in camera also. But if those are not important, then there is no need to whine about lack of the fx firmware updates.

Not whining, just responding to your blanket statement about the A7S III being wrong for people who take their video seriously which is a load of nonsense. 

[Django]

20 hours ago, markr041 said:

 The fx3 and fx30 are cameras for people who take video seriously. And cameras like the a7s iii are not for them or other hybrids, with or without breathing compensation. Of course this does not mean an owner of an a7siii is not professional. Just she ended up with the wrong camera. 

A7Siii came out well before FX3/FX30 and was way overdue with about 4 years in between A7Sii. 

Its kinda easy today to claim it as the "wrong camera" "for people who take video seriously". 

Many spent their hard earned cash on it upon its release.

Regardless, breathing comp and a lot of the FX3/FX30 features are creeping into Alpha bodies. 

No reason Sony should withhold an A7Siii firmware update, aside from cripple hammer perspective.

[markr041]

2 hours ago, Django said:

A7Siii came out well before FX3/FX30 and was way overdue with about 4 years in between A7Sii. 

Its kinda easy today to claim it as the "wrong camera" "for people who take video seriously". 

Many spent their hard earned cash on it upon its release.

Regardless, breathing comp and a lot of the FX3/FX30 features are creeping into Alpha bodies. 

No reason Sony should withhold an A7Siii firmware update, aside from cripple hammer perspective.

Yes, I acquired the a7siii when it first came out for its video features. It was the best option, then. As soon as the fx3 was introduced I traded. The fx3 was clearly superior as a video tool, even without the updates.

I agree not upgrading the a7siii is deliberate marketing. But if the new features of the fx3 are important and one's profession is video it seems odd to not trade up.

If a professional hangs on to the a7siii, then it is actually clear the new features are unimportant to her. The trade up cost is a tax-reducing investment and is a trivial expense, again, for a professional making a living based on video quality.

Just whining is not professional. Worse are those who say they will never buy Sony again over this. That is surely not professional.

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

Yes, I acquired the a7siii when it first came out for its video features. It was the best option, then. As soon as the fx3 was introduced I traded. The fx3 was clearly superior as a video tool, even without the updates.

I agree not upgrading the a7siii is deliberate marketing. But if the new features of the fx3 are important and one's profession is video it seems odd to not trade up.

If a professional hangs on to the a7siii, then it is actually clear the new features are unimportant to her. The trade up cost is a tax-reducing investment and is a trivial expense, again, for a professional making a living based on video quality.

Just whining is not professional. Worse are those who say they will never buy Sony again over this. That is surely not professional.

Being a Sony apologist isn't particularly professional, either. You've argued that the A7siii isn't meant for professionals, even though the very first thing Sony said in it's marketing material was how this camera is for "movie makers."

Quote

 

Imagination in Motion

Taking the S series to a whole new level of full-frame movie expression, spectacular new speed combines with supreme sensitivity and ultra-low noise to put previously impossible 4K movie shoots on the menu, with high dynamic range, breathtaking focusing, and extra-strong image stabilisation. Your new creative potential awaits.

For visual trailblazers
With extreme full-frame movie performance including high sensitivity (expanded ISO up to 409600), 15-stop wide dynamic range, 4K 120p1, fast and dependable autofocusing, and extra-strong image stabilisation, the α7S III again raises the bar for movie makers.

 

You've then faulted people for not immediately selling their A7siii and buying the FX3, because apparently that's a reasonable thing to expect people to do less than a year after they dropped $3500 on the A7siii. Frankly it's pretty ridiculous for Sony to have released the FX3 in the first place just six or so months after the A7siii, given it was pretty much the same camera in a different body, but that's a debate for another day.

And now you're faulting folks, many who use the camera professionally, for feeling burnt because they dare "whine" about features being withheld from their flagship cameras but not entry level ones even though it could be easily done in a firmware update.

This is silly. @Andrew Reid you should check to see if his IP address is located at one of Sony's headquarters! 😉

[Django]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

Yes, I acquired the a7siii when it first came out for its video features. It was the best option, then. As soon as the fx3 was introduced I traded. The fx3 was clearly superior as a video tool, even without the updates.

I agree not upgrading the a7siii is deliberate marketing. But if the new features of the fx3 are important and one's profession is video it seems odd to not trade up.

If a professional hangs on to the a7siii, then it is actually clear the new features are unimportant to her. The trade up cost is a tax-reducing investment and is a trivial expense, again, for a professional making a living based on video quality.

Just whining is not professional. Worse are those who say they will never buy Sony again over this. That is surely not professional.

Do you work at B&H or something? Most people I know don't upgrade cams every 6 months.

And what about those that are hybrid shooters or that require an EVF? Ton of pros hung on to their A7Siii for that.

Not everyone is a 100% videographer. Not everyone is even a professional. That's beside the point really.

And its not "whining" to express dissatisfaction to Sony with an obvious cripple hammer strategy on such a high-end product.

Its the most effective way to get them to listen and perhaps reconsider. Kudos to the influencers and even Sony ambassadors that have the balls to do so.

I also see no issue with switching systems over this, brand loyalty is often challenged over such policies.

Everyone is free to do as they want with their investments. Implying otherwise is certainly not professional, unless you're on the Sony payroll of course.

[markr041]

40 minutes ago, Django said:

Do you work at B&H or something? Most people I know don't upgrade cams every 6 months.

And what about those that are hybrid shooters or that require an EVF? Ton of pros hung on to their A7Siii for that.

Not everyone is a 100% videographer. Not everyone is even a professional. That's beside the point really.

And its not "whining" to express dissatisfaction to Sony with an obvious cripple hammer strategy on such a high-end product.

Its the most effective way to get them to listen and perhaps reconsider. Kudos to the influencers and even Sony ambassadors that have the balls to do so.

I also see no issue with switching systems over this, brand loyalty is often challenged over such policies.

Everyone is free to do as they want with their investments. Implying otherwise is certainly not professional, unless you're on the Sony payroll of course.

It is whining when you - yes, you - post the same complaints over and over again. And brand loyalty is silly. You get the best available equipment that suits your needs. We all agree that Sony is being nasty. So, move on. Brave influencers is an oxymoron. They are parasites.

The key point is that if you really needed those Sony updates, you would switch. You evidently do not and would rather complain. You have a choice - spend money for those updates (trade in - the a7siii is worth a lot on the used market) - or settle with the constraints of the a7siii.

Can you make great videos with the a7siii - yes! Professional video - yes! But if your creativity requires focus breathing compensation, 4K DCI, time code, no overheating, and the other features then put up. Or....

[Django]

37 minutes ago, markr041 said:

It is whining when you - yes, you - post the same complaints over and over again. And brand loyalty is silly. You get the best available equipment that suits your needs. We all agree that Sony is being nasty. So, move on. Brave influencers is an oxymoron. They are parasites.

The key point is that if you really needed those Sony updates, you would switch. You evidently do not and would rather complain. You have a choice - spend money for those updates (trade in - the a7siii is worth a lot on the used market) - or settle with the constraints of the a7siii.

Can you make great videos with the a7siii - yes! Professional video - yes! But if your creativity requires focus breathing compensation, 4K DCI, time code, no overheating, and the other features then put up. Or....

Listen I did not create this thread, however it is a valid topic which I'm participating in. You on the other hand keep defending Sony's position over and over again. Says more about you then it does about me I'm afraid. 

I'm actually glad Sony is finally giving FX3/FX30 much awaited cine features. All I said if you go back to my earlier post announcing the update yesterday, was that adding breathing comp to FX3 proves it can also be ported to A7Siii (something you claimed earlier was not possible due to hardware by the way). Not holding my breath for DCI 4K as they've never put that in a non cine alpha camera.

Oh and by the way I don't need to switch.. I have an FS7 for all my pro cine feature needs.

[markr041]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Listen I did not create this thread, however it is a valid topic which I'm participating in. You on the other hand keep defending Sony's position over and over again. Says more about you then it does about me I'm afraid. 

I'm actually glad Sony is finally giving FX3/FX30 much awaited cine features. All I said if you go back to my earlier post announcing the update yesterday, was that adding breathing comp to FX3 proves it can also be ported to A7Siii (something you claimed earlier was not possible due to hardware by the way). Not holding my breath for DCI 4K as they've never put that in a non cine alpha camera.

Oh and by the way I don't need to switch.. I have an FS7 for all my pro cine feature needs.

How many times do I have to say that Sony behaved badly on the a7siii and I agree with you on their bad behavior for you to understand I am not defending Sony. Read my posts again.

My point is if you need the added features of the fx3 then trade up. That you do not do that reveals you are just blowing hot air, because you are unwiiling to buy those features. Two days work, or less, for the difference between the a7siii trade-in-value and a new fx3?

Sony misbehaved. You have an option if you need the new features, but it will cost. The fs7 does not have those features either.

For a casual camera person, the trade up is a big cost for a hobby. But for a real pro making a living from video prowess, it seems to me ludicrous to just whine if one actually needs the new features.

I don't call into question your right to whine, or the useful techical info you provide, just your credibility about how important you claim these added features are to you.

 

[Django]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

How many times do I have to say that Sony behaved badly on the a7siii and I agree with you on their bad behavior for you to understand I am not defending Sony. Read my posts again.

My point is if you need the added features of the fx3 then trade up. That you do not do that reveals you are just blowing hot air, because you are unwiiling to buy those features. Two days work, or less, for the difference between the a7siii trade-in-value and a new fx3?

Sony misbehaved. You have an option if you need the new features, but it will cost. The fs7 does not have those features either.

For a casual camera person, the trade up is a big cost for a hobby. But for a real pro making a living from video prowess, it seems to me ludicrous to just whine if one actually needs the new features.

I don't call into question your right to whine, or the useful techical info you provide, just your credibility about how important you claim these added features are to you.

 

You seem to have a complete lack of perspective and nuance from people not in your shoes.

See to me FX3 isn't really a trade up. Losing the EVF and stills UI isn't something I'm particularly interested in giving up on a compact camera as a hybrid shooter. Again for true cine needs I have an FS7 which by the way has DCI 4K, LUT support, Cine EI, TC and many more important things FX3/FX30 don't even have (ND's, SDI etc) since day one. These are obviously important features to me or I would not own such a camera.

But in the end this isn't about me, this isn't about you. This is about Sony doing the right thing for their customers.

Hence the complaints that again don't just come from me but from many users, including Sony ambassadors.

If you truly do understand Sony's bad behaviour than I don't even know what you're trying to argue besides thinking you know best what's the right tool for my job. If I'm blowing hot air, you're certainly grasping at straws here. 

[herein2020]

14 hours ago, Django said:

A7Siii came out well before FX3/FX30 and was way overdue with about 4 years in between A7Sii. 

Its kinda easy today to claim it as the "wrong camera" "for people who take video seriously". 

Many spent their hard earned cash on it upon its release.

Regardless, breathing comp and a lot of the FX3/FX30 features are creeping into Alpha bodies. 

No reason Sony should withhold an A7Siii firmware update, aside from cripple hammer perspective.

 

As a Canon shooter, seeing the phrase cripple hammer in a Sony thread is pure comedy for me 🤣, my how times have changed in the Canon world. 

I have nothing else to add to this thread since I know nothing about Sony cameras and I am quite satisfied with my current Canon setup, but I will be disappointed if Canon does not add the FW features that are in the R6II to the R5 and R7.  Not a big loss, but it would still be disappointing. It would not surprise me if Canon doesn't do a single thing for the R7 due to its price point but the R5 is a different story.

So yes, other than Panasonic who literally throws everything but the kitchen sink into every camera they make, I think all camera manufacturers look at the cost vs reward ratios of effort vs additional sales and at the end of the day that bottom line is what drives their priorities. Quite frequently its us consumers that get left behind. Fortunately camera's are so good on day one these days that most FW updates are nice to haves vs necessities.

[IronFilm]

19 hours ago, markr041 said:

Yes, I acquired the a7siii when it first came out for its video features. It was the best option, then. As soon as the fx3 was introduced I traded. The fx3 was clearly superior as a video tool, even without the updates.

 

Indeed, it was kinda reasonable to buy the a7Smk3 back when it came out, but now in 2023 don't ever be buying it if you're shooting video professionally! And if you have it already? In the grand scheme of things it is a very small business cost to upgrade to a FX3/FX30 (or heck, even a FX6!)

  

17 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

 

This is silly. @Andrew Reid you should check to see if his IP address is located at one of Sony's headquarters! 😉

I'd quite like to live at Sony's HQ! They'd have the best gear room you could imagine right there at hand. 

[Malick]

On 4/12/2023 at 5:12 AM, Thpriest said:

Still no shutter angle?

Bigger sin than this is Sony calling these FX line plus A7s III FULL FRAME camera without enabling full sensor 🙂

They call Venice full frame camera but they have Open Gate mode enabled ( if you purchase FF license for $4000 lol ) 

when do they gonna give us OPEN GATE mode for these so called FULL FRAME cameras?

[Django]

@herein2020 Well its no secret Sony is the new Canon when it comes to cripple strategy. Like I've said before such is the syndrome of leadership position. Canon have actually been great with firmware updates recently and they include things like DCI, RAW internal in their upper end non cine line hybrids. Canon claim R6ii uses a tweaked version of Digic X with lower power consumption for less heat and longer recordings. It also has the latest DPAF II engine with AI deep learning. So I don't know how much can be ported over to R5, an older gen camera already pretty crammed with features and prone to overheat.

But I digress, Canon segments as well and one should buy a camera for what it does on day one. Sony just feels extra greedy towards their customers with an avalanche of product releases pushing regular hardware upgrades instead of giving you via free firmware updates (FX3/FX30 3.0 features should have been there on initial release). Obviously its a smart business strategy until it backfires and ppl switch to other systems. Panasonic does have the best reputation plus they don't over charge their products here in Europe like Canon & Sony do.

1 hour ago, Malick said:

Bigger sin than this is Sony calling these FX line plus A7s III FULL FRAME camera without enabling full sensor 🙂

They call Venice full frame camera but they have Open Gate mode enabled ( if you purchase FF license for $4000 lol ) 

when do they gonna give us OPEN GATE mode for these so called FULL FRAME cameras?

Yeah no open gate is maddening (also on Canon).

They're only just starting to give out DCI options so Open Gate is probably yet another decade away. 🙄

Also only two de squeeze options (1.33x & 2x) on the new firmware which is super limited considering all the affordable 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x anamorphic lenses out there.

 

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Django said:

@herein2020 Well its no secret Sony is the new Canon when it comes to cripple strategy. Like I've said before such is the syndrome of leadership position. Canon have actually been great with firmware updates recently and they include things like DCI, RAW internal in their upper end non cine line hybrids. Canon claim R6ii uses a tweaked version of Digic X with lower power consumption for less heat and longer recordings. It also has the latest DPAF II engine with AI deep learning. So I don't know how much can be ported over to R5, an older gen camera already pretty crammed with features and prone to overheat.

But I digress, Canon segments as well and one should buy a camera for what it does on day one. Sony just feels extra greedy towards their customers with an avalanche of product releases pushing regular hardware upgrades instead of giving you via free firmware updates (FX3/FX30 3.0 features should have been there on initial release). Obviously its a smart business strategy until it backfires and ppl switch to other systems. Panasonic does have the best reputation plus they don't over charge their products here in Europe like Canon & Sony do.

Yeah no open gate is maddening (also on Canon).

They're only just starting to give out DCI options so Open Gate is probably yet another decade away. 🙄

Also only two de squeeze options (1.33x & 2x) on the new firmware which is super limited considering all the affordable 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x anamorphic lenses out there.

 

 

I thought Sony was already known as the vendor that floods the market with tons of HW but not particularly known for their FW releases. Back when Sony first jumped into mirrorless, it seemed like they were released a new camera every week and telling their users if they wanted the problems fixed with their current cameras they should upgrade to their next cameras so this doesn't seem like a new thing to me.

Some of the Sony shooters I have met always seem to be one upgrade away from getting a Sony version that actually "works right" vs one FW update away from getting their current body to "work right". Mind you this is mainly for video, the photographers seem quite happy with their Sony cameras.

[Django]

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

I thought Sony was already known as the vendor that floods the market with tons of HW but not particularly known for their FW releases. Back when Sony first jumped into mirrorless, it seemed like they were released a new camera every week and telling their users if they wanted the problems fixed with their current cameras they should upgrade to their next cameras so this doesn't seem like a new thing to me.

Some of the Sony shooters I have met always seem to be one upgrade away from getting a Sony version that actually "works right" vs one FW update away from getting their current body to "work right". Mind you this is mainly for video, the photographers seem quite happy with their Sony cameras.

Yeah typical consumer approach that harkens back to their roots in electronics. Nothing new but its getting worse with currently 9 full-frame alpha bodies to choose from. Also Sony are no longer alone in the mirrorless scene so it would be nice if they took cues from their competitors that mostly all offer regular updates. But as long as their consumers keep quiet and upgrade cameras at every chance like sheep they'll stick with that philosophy. I think it'll eventually backfire if they don't adapt as there are growing concerns over this but we'll see if they listen or stick to their guns..

[MrSMW]

32 minutes ago, Django said:

I think it'll eventually backfire if they don't adapt as there are growing concerns over this

Or they won’t give a flying fcuk as so many/most big corps do not.

The thing is, we think as individuals or small businesses where things like customer service are important.

The big boys do not. I don’t hate them but rather just accept that is the way of things though I will try and avoid such situations if possible.

Except Amazon because it’s just too convenient 😱😂

[Rinad Amir]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:52 PM, markr041 said:

Yes, I acquired the a7siii when it first came out for its video features. It was the best option, then. As soon as the fx3 was introduced I traded. The fx3 was clearly superior as a video tool, even without the updates.

I agree not upgrading the a7siii is deliberate marketing. But if the new features of the fx3 are important and one's profession is video it seems odd to not trade up.

If a professional hangs on to the a7siii, then it is actually clear the new features are unimportant to her. The trade up cost is a tax-reducing investment and is a trivial expense, again, for a professional making a living based on video quality.

Just whining is not professional. Worse are those who say they will never buy Sony again over this. That is surely not professional.

Can you please stop being Sony apologiest for moment and explain how was fx3 Supervisior to a7siii? Exactly in image quality? Also post some of your work so we can see the big difference in superiority as you claim ,so far internet claims both has identical hardware .

Just admit it 

[Llaasseerr]

6 hours ago, Rinad Amir said:

Can you please stop being Sony apologiest for moment and explain how was fx3 Supervisior to a7siii? Exactly in image quality? Also post some of your work so we can see the big difference in superiority as you claim ,so far internet claims both has identical hardware .

Just admit it 

The same obviously applies for the FX6, a camera I quite like. Sony are just ratcheting up the pro functionality with each model. I suppose it's possible that the superior cooling of the FX3 would reduce image noise a little compared to the A7sIII. It would need a comparison between ProRes Raw recorded to a Ninja V on both cams to circumvent the in-camera noise reduction.

Also you get more control over highlight latitude and to some extent, the appearance of a lifted noise floor, when shooting CineEI rather than a baked ISO image that depending on the scene brightness, might clip bright highlights.

Of course, CineEI is really just an in-camera preview for shooting underexposed footage at base ISO. So you can replicate shooting with it on an a7sIII just by shooting at base ISO with an external monitor with a preview LUT that increases the exposure.

I was interested in buying an FX3 when it was rumored, but I consider it only viable now with this latest firmware update since I stan true 24p. Definitely interested, but will see how NAB shakes out. I'm kind of also hoping that we finally see some completely new cameras now that supply chains and post-pandemic conditions are improving.

[A_Urquhart]

9 hours ago, Rinad Amir said:

Can you please stop being Sony apologiest for moment and explain how was fx3 Supervisior to a7siii? Exactly in image quality? Also post some of your work so we can see the big difference in superiority as you claim ,so far internet claims both has identical hardware .

Just admit it 

There is a lot more to a camera than 'image quality' and he did say it was a 'Superior video tool'  to which, for video shooters, the FX3 IS superior to the A7SIII.

While it's a shame that Sony doesn't bring some of the new features to the A7 line given that we know the hardware can probably take it, I guess that is now Sony's way of saying "the FX line is for the video shooters" and they don't want to blur the lines. I'd be pissed too if I bought the A7SIII as Sony did market it as their video centric hybrid but it seems they now want to charge direction.

There is a lot that Sony does that makes no sense to the end user.....

[PPNS]

14 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

There is a lot more to a camera than 'image quality' and he did say it was a 'Superior video tool'  to which, for video shooters, the FX3 IS superior to the A7SIII.

 

I’ve actually used both cameras, and how would you exactly define the fx3 to be a better video tool? I think both are completely miserable to use for video, especially compared to the fx6, which i do really like. I guess the fx3 has a slightly less dogshit menu system, but you cant really handhold it like an a7s (and you could use the evf as a third point of contact there).
 

The screens are more or less pointless to judge anything on there, so you need an external monitor (sadly also the case for the fx6, but it’s more bearable). Since they’re both FF they both need big ass lenses which makes the ergonomics extra awkward. You could rig both of them up, but that often makes them worse or more annoying to use, but I guess this will always be a problem with smaller cameras. They are fine on a tripod, and have to potential to get really good results, if there’s somebody next to you who knows the menu system through and through.