Introducing the new Sony RX100 - large sensor compact with 1080/60p

[alanpoiuyt]

Andrew - thanks to you I own 2 GH2s and a HX9v! My HX9v has never let me down. 60p recording - incredible stabilization - HDR mode - panorama mode - 16x zoom. I welcome the RX100 20MP sensor for higher rez panoramas.

check out the zoom out at the end of this slomo test on the HX9v. All hand held.

https://vimeo.com/43151104

[tenazrael]

Ah the video of the HXV9 was really awesome!  Unfortunately, the picture quality I felt was lacking.  Green's looked mushy.  You couldn't zoom into a picture and extract anything from it because the more you zoomed into a picture, the more pastel like the picture looked.

I purchased a Canon S100, and unfortunately, the picture of quality of that camera was also very poor.  In comparison with pictures from an older Canon 870IS, the older model did so much better.  However, I believe the older model was a CCD, not CMOS.

If the RX100 has really great image quality, it will be on my shopping list.

[emgesp]

[quote author=MichalGajdos link=topic=812.msg5856#msg5856 date=1338887183]
[quote author=Maxine link=topic=812.msg5848#msg5848 date=1338869540]
Someone please tell Sony to stop making 60p video mode.Only soccer moms & dads will want this.And that is their market methinks. Where's 30/24P? It's just really annoying...
[/quote]

I as a professional skier thank to Gods that someone like Sony has the guts to do fullHD60p not just simple 24p , we wan't at least a small slow motion and not just in HD but fullHD. 60p is enough for twixtor and it looks amaxing, you can still get your 24p love but with addition of slow motion. Even Hobbit is filmed at 48p please stop complaining about new things and simply get used to them. It's just the matter of time when the higher framerates will become a common thing. 24p is just not enough for action shots.

I am very amazed how far Sony is taking their chances. I admire them for being so innovative. Like apple or Teslamotors with electric cars. Even if it's more expensive (which sony definitely IS NOT) it's worth your money.
[/quote]

If 48p becomes the standard for films then God help us. I don't like my films looking like Soap Operas.

[abortabort]

[quote author=abortabort link=topic=812.msg5851#msg5851 date=1338880154]

I hope this has clean HDMI out like the HX9v! Being that it is a Cybershot and not a NEX/Alpha, I am hopeful it will!
[/quote]

Argh! the HDMI port is right NEXT to the tripod socket!!! Hands down, worst feature of this otherwise seemingly awesome little camera :(

[hoodlum]

dpreview has confirmed there is no 1080p24.  Here is some more info.

http://***URL removed***/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/4

"The RX100 allows P,A,S or M exposure modes to be used when video shooting. Autofocus remains available in movie shooting, regardless of the exposure mode used. Alternatively the camera's focus peaking can be used to aid manual focus (which can be assigned to the front dial). This, combined with the camera's active image stabilization during movie shooting, makes it a pretty capable and pocketable camera for grabbing footage."

[abortabort]

[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=812.msg5885#msg5885 date=1339014322]
dpreview has confirmed there is no 1080p24.  Here is some more info.

http://***URL removed***/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/4

"The RX100 allows P,A,S or M exposure modes to be used when video shooting. Autofocus remains available in movie shooting, regardless of the exposure mode used. Alternatively the camera's focus peaking can be used to aid manual focus (which can be assigned to the front dial). This, combined with the camera's active image stabilization during movie shooting, makes it a pretty capable and pocketable camera for grabbing footage."
[/quote]

Very disappointing! I presume the 30p is wrapped up in 60i? So in PAL regions it should be 50i (wrapped 25p) and 50p. I don't care for 24p as 25p would have been fine, but to not have 25p is very annoying (or 24p for those in NTSC land).

On the plus side, this is the ONLY compact I know of that includes 1080 50/60p. It is also the only compact I know that offers full manual control over exposure, AF + MF with control ring, focus peaking etc. While it isn't perfect, it is streets ahead of any other fixed lens camera and better than a lot of interchangeable lens cameras.

Also the UI is taken from Sony's SLTs rather than their compact cams, so I am guessing clean HDMI out like HX9v is out of the question... Plus it is in the WORST place I could imagine.

[P4INKiller]

[quote author=Maxine link=topic=812.msg5848#msg5848 date=1338869540]
Someone please tell Sony to stop making 60p video mode.Only soccer moms & dads will want this.And that is their market methinks. Where's 30/24P? It's just really annoying...
[/quote]
No one makes use of 60p as is.
It's useful for slowing down your shots without having to interpolate in-between frames.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=abortabort link=topic=812.msg5888#msg5888 date=1339035862]
[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=812.msg5885#msg5885 date=1339014322]
dpreview has confirmed there is no 1080p24.  Here is some more info.

http://***URL removed***/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/4

"The RX100 allows P,A,S or M exposure modes to be used when video shooting. Autofocus remains available in movie shooting, regardless of the exposure mode used. Alternatively the camera's focus peaking can be used to aid manual focus (which can be assigned to the front dial). This, combined with the camera's active image stabilization during movie shooting, makes it a pretty capable and pocketable camera for grabbing footage."
[/quote]

Very disappointing! I presume the 30p is wrapped up in 60i? So in PAL regions it should be 50i (wrapped 25p) and 50p. I don't care for 24p as 25p would have been fine, but to not have 25p is very annoying (or 24p for those in NTSC land).

On the plus side, this is the ONLY compact I know of that includes 1080 50/60p. It is also the only compact I know that offers full manual control over exposure, AF + MF with control ring, focus peaking etc. While it isn't perfect, it is streets ahead of any other fixed lens camera and better than a lot of interchangeable lens cameras.

Also the UI is taken from Sony's SLTs rather than their compact cams, so I am guessing clean HDMI out like HX9v is out of the question... Plus it is in the WORST place I could imagine.
[/quote]

The HX9v did 1080/50/60p and there's also an Olympus compact that does it. 60 and 50p conform to 24/25p (50p perfectly so) and you also have the capability to do dreamy slow-mo. So don't confuse it with crappy 60i or 30p it is far better than that.

Focus peaking and manual control in video mode is GREAT for this camera.

As for clean HDMI out - not sure why you think the HX9v had that? It did HDMI out but it wasn't clean or enabled during recording.

[marike6]

[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5846#msg5846 date=1338859239]
[quote author=marike6 link=topic=812.msg5845#msg5845 date=1338851642]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5840#msg5840 date=1338848228]
[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=812.msg5839#msg5839 date=1338847948]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5838#msg5838 date=1338847593]
20MP P&S is beyond overkill. I guarantee that 90% of the stills taken with this camera will not be printed. 12 MP's would have been a more practical choice.
[/quote]

They said 36MP was overkill for the D800. It wasn't.
[/quote]

The low-light performance says otherwise. Great camera would have been greater with much less MP's.
[/quote]

Is that so?  Here's what DxOMark testing said about that:

D800

2835 ISO score
14.4 EVs DR score
25.3 bits Color Depth score

D700

2303 ISO score
12.2 EVs DR score
23.5 bits Color Depth score

D3s

3253 ISO score
12 EVs DR score
23.5 bits Color Depth score

D4 

2965 ISO score
13.1 EVs
24.7 bits Color Depth score

5D Mk II

1815 ISO score
11.9 EVs DR score
23.7 Color Depth

5D Mk III

2239 ISO Score
11.7 EVs DR
24 bits color depth
 

Notice that only the D3s and D4 do better than the 36mp D800 at high ISO, and only slightly.
[/quote]


I'm talking about video. The Nikon D800 is a lot noisier than the 5D mark lll.
[/quote]

I think the better low-light performance of the 5D3 vs the D800 in video mode has to do with the fact that Canon's superior pixel binning algorithm.  That's why the 5D3 is less noisy than the 5D2 even though the are essentially the same sensor. 

[marike6]

[quote author=Maxine link=topic=812.msg5848#msg5848 date=1338869540]
Someone please tell Sony to stop making 60p video mode.Only soccer moms & dads will want this.And that is their market methinks. Where's 30/24P? It's just really annoying...
[/quote]

I think it's great that Sony makes cameras that are 1080p60 as it great for slow-motion work.  I was thinking of buying a NEX-5N for slow-mo to use along side my D800, but if I get the far smaller RX100, I won't have to buy into the NEX system. 

[Maxine]

I think someone posted a test clip on vimeo recorded to Atomos ninja from HX9V's hdmi. I think that moire and aliasing will be worse on RX100 than HX9v,considering increase in sensor size & mpix. Sony HX9v was fine but not excellent in this aspect.

[filipeG]

[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5846#msg5846 date=1338859239]
[quote author=marike6 link=topic=812.msg5845#msg5845 date=1338851642]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5840#msg5840 date=1338848228]
[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=812.msg5839#msg5839 date=1338847948]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5838#msg5838 date=1338847593]
20MP P&S is beyond overkill. I guarantee that 90% of the stills taken with this camera will not be printed. 12 MP's would have been a more practical choice.
[/quote]

They said 36MP was overkill for the D800. It wasn't.
[/quote]

The low-light performance says otherwise. Great camera would have been greater with much less MP's.
[/quote]

Is that so?  Here's what DxOMark testing said about that:

D800

2835 ISO score
14.4 EVs DR score
25.3 bits Color Depth score

D700

2303 ISO score
12.2 EVs DR score
23.5 bits Color Depth score

D3s

3253 ISO score
12 EVs DR score
23.5 bits Color Depth score

D4 

2965 ISO score
13.1 EVs
24.7 bits Color Depth score

5D Mk II

1815 ISO score
11.9 EVs DR score
23.7 Color Depth

5D Mk III

2239 ISO Score
11.7 EVs DR
24 bits color depth
 

Notice that only the D3s and D4 do better than the 36mp D800 at high ISO, and only slightly.
[/quote]


I'm talking about video. The Nikon D800 is a lot noisier than the 5D mark lll.
[/quote]

Yeah, but 3200 iso equals 6400 iso from canon. So it´s almost the same. D800 at 6400 has more noise than canon at 6400, but the 3200 from D800 has the same light that 6400 from canon.

[abortabort]

[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=812.msg5914#msg5914 date=1339160580]
The HX9v did 1080/50/60p and there's also an Olympus compact that does it. 60 and 50p conform to 24/25p (50p perfectly so) and you also have the capability to do dreamy slow-mo. So don't confuse it with crappy 60i or 30p it is far better than that.

Focus peaking and manual control in video mode is GREAT for this camera.

As for clean HDMI out - not sure why you think the HX9v had that? It did HDMI out but it wasn't clean or enabled during recording.
[/quote]

Sorry Andrew for some reason I overlooked the many Sony models that do 60p now including HX9v, HX10v, 20v, 30v, 100v, 200v and one of their high end slim models (can't remember the model).

But which Olympus model supports 1080 - 50/60p?

In regards to clean HDMI output, I actually thought it was you Andrew who put me onto that through a video shot with the HX9v and Atomos Ninja on one of the trade show floors? I also recall it being of not much advatage in terms or quality, but that isn't the only reason to use an external recorder. Maybe I am wrong, but I was certain it was you and saying that because it wasn't 'pro' enough they hadn't disabled it? Perhaps my memory is failing me!

I don't own, nor have I owned an HX9v so I way purely going off other users information.

[emgesp]

[quote author=filipeG link=topic=812.msg5951#msg5951 date=1339363972]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5846#msg5846 date=1338859239]
[quote author=marike6 link=topic=812.msg5845#msg5845 date=1338851642]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5840#msg5840 date=1338848228]
[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=812.msg5839#msg5839 date=1338847948]
[quote author=emgesp link=topic=812.msg5838#msg5838 date=1338847593]
20MP P&S is beyond overkill. I guarantee that 90% of the stills taken with this camera will not be printed. 12 MP's would have been a more practical choice.
[/quote]

They said 36MP was overkill for the D800. It wasn't.
[/quote]

The low-light performance says otherwise. Great camera would have been greater with much less MP's.
[/quote]

Is that so?  Here's what DxOMark testing said about that:

D800

2835 ISO score
14.4 EVs DR score
25.3 bits Color Depth score

D700

2303 ISO score
12.2 EVs DR score
23.5 bits Color Depth score

D3s

3253 ISO score
12 EVs DR score
23.5 bits Color Depth score

D4 

2965 ISO score
13.1 EVs
24.7 bits Color Depth score

5D Mk II

1815 ISO score
11.9 EVs DR score
23.7 Color Depth

5D Mk III

2239 ISO Score
11.7 EVs DR
24 bits color depth
 

Notice that only the D3s and D4 do better than the 36mp D800 at high ISO, and only slightly.
[/quote]


I'm talking about video. The Nikon D800 is a lot noisier than the 5D mark lll.
[/quote]

Yeah, but 3200 iso equals 6400 iso from canon. So it´s almost the same. D800 at 6400 has more noise than canon at 6400, but the 3200 from D800 has the same light that 6400 from canon.
[/quote]

The D800 at ISO 3200 is noiser than the Canon 5D Mark lll at ISO 6400.

https://vimeo.com/42381520

[hoodlum]

Here is a short clip from the RX100 in 1080p60 28mbps that you can download.

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/video/avw/docs/541/059/00041.mts

[hoodlum]

[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=812.msg6606#msg6606 date=1340850635]
Here is a short clip from the RX100 in 1080p60 28mbps that you can download.

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/video/avw/docs/541/059/00041.mts
[/quote]

Here is the link to the article.

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/zooma/20120620_541059.html

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=812.msg6606#msg6606 date=1340850635]
Here is a short clip from the RX100 in 1080p60 28mbps that you can download.

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/video/avw/docs/541/059/00041.mts
[/quote]

Very impressive quality. No compression mud or noise, very nice clean resolution. I'll be buying myself one of these.

[TC]

There's some footage from this camera on youtube now from various people.  For the most part it looks very good.  And let's state the obvious - much sharper than the 5D3, or indeed any Canon camera under the C300.

[alexander]

Well this camera makes the 900 € Sony camcorders dispensable. 4 times the image sensor with almost the same pixel count promises better lowlight performance and sDOF. On imaging-resource.com there is a 60i fullhd sample file for download and the lowlight performance seems awesome.

The only problem that I see is the rx100 not having 25p but only 50i and 50p! (and NO! 50i is NOT the same as 25p!!!)
50p to 25p workflow in premiere is easily achived but there is something I´ve noticed with the nex5n... see for your self:

The images are too big so u have to scroll to the side to see the area with the white bricks in the moire example.
Also the alising is there in 25p and 50p but in 50p its way more pronounced

native 25p with some alising:
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/ix9h4x.png[/img]

native 50p with lots of alising:
[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/2vmvmlk.png[/img]

25p bit moire:
[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/20pu04h.png[/img]
50p more moire
[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/67meea.png[/img]

so what I am afraid of is that  quality is compromised just for the sake of 50p. That we actually could have an even better looking image with a proper 25p mode.