kye Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Peter Doyle (colourist on Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc) speaks about how closely we can reproduce the colours in the real world. Spoiler: no. (linked to the relevant timestamp) Juank, solovetski and PannySVHS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Would love to see some Z8/Z9 (RAW) footage with some nice adapted cine/vintage glass. Biggest appeal to me keeps being that versatile Z mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 On 7/15/2023 at 2:58 PM, markr041 said: The Z8 as an APS-C video camera. You can shoot RAW in DX mode, which crops the sensor and gives you 5405x3040 clips, better than 5K and much better than 4K. You can shoot RAW at the highest quality (HIGH), with the bitrates 1/4th those for 8K - so you can shoot 48 minutes at HIGH RAW on a 1TB card, as opposed to 12 minutes for 8K! You can of course us DX (APS-C) lenses in those mode. For this video I used the FF Nikon Z 24-70 f4 lens. An advantage of the crop is that mostly one is using the center of the lens, so corner drop-off is irrelevant - most lenses from Nikon are really good in the center. So, how does it look: Think meerkats - habitat and inhabitants in their activities. 5K (5120x2880) frame grabs: Is there a chance you could share the original 5K raw files? Django 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 7 hours ago, kye said: Peter Doyle (colourist on Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc) speaks about how closely we can reproduce the colours in the real world. Spoiler: no. (linked to the relevant timestamp) What's your point, or his? Video and film is about illusion. You can color to make a video give the illusion of reality. So, you get comments like "looks so real" when technically the colors are far from those in the real world. But for sure reality is not "beautiful" or "thick" colors. Or Rembrandt co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Django said: Would love to see some Z8/Z9 (RAW) footage with some nice adapted cine/vintage glass. Biggest appeal to me keeps being that versatile Z mount. Yes that would be interesting… I’m doing a job this next weekend mostly using 6k 30p log with a 1975 Carl Zeiss 40-80mm f3.5 lens as a test to: A. See if it works for me in principle which I think it should as I like very much the test results so far…but nothing but a real world job will really answer that one. B. To see the potential for how it then might work going forward to any S1H replacement, but if that camera does not come or meet my spec requirements, then… C. A flip to a Nikon Z9 + Z8 pairing as currently they are the only available cameras that meet my ‘next gen’ spec, plus along with Sony, the only one’s that have the lenses that suit my needs most. All things considered, Nikon are currently ahead of the rest for me, but we’ll see. Django 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 That´s exactely what I meant what all your videos show: 1 hour ago, markr041 said: reality is not "beautiful" or "thick" colors. Or Rembrandt I imagine the reality of being in the park is more exiting than the realness of CST of your tested cameras. All your tested conversions to Rec709 lack that exiting reality of a park that you were capturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, markr041 said: What's your point, or his? Video and film is about illusion. You can color to make a video give the illusion of reality. So, you get comments like "looks so real" when technically the colors are far from those in the real world. But for sure reality is not "beautiful" or "thick" colors. Or Rembrandt co The discussion seems to be about reproducing colours that are lifelike, or accurate, or real. I posted an interview where a world renowned expert discusses the subject. I thought that it would be of interest, considering that colour grading is one of the weakest areas of knowledge online. There is no "point", only information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 7 hours ago, kye said: The discussion seems to be about reproducing colours that are lifelike, or accurate, or real. I posted an interview where a world renowned expert discusses the subject. I thought that it would be of interest, considering that colour grading is one of the weakest areas of knowledge online. There is no "point", only information. I think he only wanted to mention his point, kye, your posts are priceless. Period. Greetings to you from a grateful community, Emanuel kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Had a quick go at the Z8 the other day. Shot some 8K ProRes test footage with a vintage Nikkor AIS lens and the Z 35mm f1.8. I have mixed feelings about it. For some reason the IBIS was disabled on the AIS lens, not sure if that's the case with all adapted lenses or not but it was rather disapointing (VR and EIS was greyed out). That said, it was pretty glorious seeing that vintage lens in 8K for the first time! N-Log is kind of a can of worms. Footage is pretty noisy at ISO800 and yeah the provided Nikon LUTS really do suck, horrible highlight roll-off that kills the DR. The info is there though so you'll get better results going manual. The menus and button control is probably the worst from any system, sorry Nikon it really does my head in. Also the grip felt sticky which is not cool. The size/weight is just right, love the LCD hinge system and overall build quality. Just a quick first impression so I guess take what I say with a grain of salt. I do like the camera despite my few gripes and might even try renting it to spend more time with it as again the menu/UI takes a lot of getting used to. Emanuel, Davide DB, ade towell and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 @Django Thanks man for your input, I guess I'd feel it in the same way : ) Even though, there's one to arrive soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethin Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I just shot my first couple of things in nlog. Can anyone point me to alternative luts I can check out? The nikon lut is contrasty, and the skies are a bit fluro-turquoise. I've just had a go at grading it myself without the lut and I need something in-between mine and the nikon one. I'm in premiere for now. I've tried turning down the intensity and tweaking the HUE/HUE controls in premiere but its a bit limited. FHDcrew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 3:27 PM, Django said: N-Log is kind of a can of worms Have you tried the Flat profile? I’ve read and seen some good stuff coming from that. Last day of a semi-working break and been doing some musing as you (I) do and the pairing of Z8 & Z9 are back on top (had a short dalliance with an imaginary gal called R3 and for her body alone, she would still be my pick, but lenses, less attractive), especially now that the Tamron 35-150 has been officially announced. I wish I could try one but as none seem to be available in La belle France… FHDcrew and gethin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evgeniy85 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 13 hours ago, gethin said: I just shot my first couple of things in nlog. Can anyone point me to alternative luts I can check out? The nikon lut is contrasty, and the skies are a bit fluro-turquoise. I've just had a go at grading it myself without the lut and I need something in-between mine and the nikon one. I'm in premiere for now. I've tried turning down the intensity and tweaking the HUE/HUE controls in premiere but its a bit limited. https://www.cinematools.co/nlog-z9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethin Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Evgeniy85 said: https://www.cinematools.co/nlog-z9 Aha thanks I just saw your earlier post too. I'll check them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethin Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 8 hours ago, MrSMW said: Have you tried the Flat profile? I’ve read and seen some good stuff coming from that. Last day of a semi-working break and been doing some musing as you (I) do and the pairing of Z8 & Z9 are back on top (had a short dalliance with an imaginary gal called R3 and for her body alone, she would still be my pick, but lenses, less attractive), especially now that the Tamron 35-150 has been officially announced. I wish I could try one but as none seem to be available in La belle France… Yes but the z8 flat isn't as flat as the z6 😭. The z6 flat is fantastic, and I swear there is more dynamic range than in raw (maybe the active dlight helps there?) Im still finding the highlight rolloff on the z8 much worse than the z6. I'll keep plugging away at it, but at the moment I'm hoping the z6iii has more to offer. I saw some real estate stuff shot on an iPhone and honestly I though it looked better than my z8 stuff. They are obviously doing some computational magic to bring down the window exposures and stop harsh highlights. But makes me wonder why I've spent so much to get worse footage, that takes me longer to edit. Sigh. This is just for what I shoot. Most.people won't be running into these issues. If I was a wedding or event shooter I'd love it. Would I should drama on it? Nopety nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 19 hours ago, gethin said: Can anyone point me to alternative luts I can check out? I’m telling you. Color Space Transform. 1000% better. You can export the CST as a LUT in Davinci and use it in Premiere. I do that to monitor NLOG on my Atomos. markr041 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 2 hours ago, gethin said: The z6 flat is fantastic, and I swear there is more dynamic range than in raw (maybe the active dlight helps there?) I’m not sure I prefer using log to the profiles I used to use with Panasonic and before that, Fuji (Eterna). I’m happy enough with both the tools I currently have and the output, but looking at the next evolution of my own personal hybrid shooting and that is adding frame grabs into the pure video and pure stills mix. 4k doesn’t cut it. At least not to the standard I would wish it to be. From a couple of tests, 6k does but 8k would be even better for me, but no access to 8k as things stand. I have downloaded some 8k footage, but it was 25p shot at 1/50th and too much motion blur. Also it’s very difficult to judge when it’s not your own footage and of some ducks on a pond. One massive benefit of shooting profiles and cranking shutter speed is the ability to pull stills and so part of that equation might be a return to shooting profiles again… In fact, Fuji Eterna on the XT3 has probably been my favourite output ever. I have considered several times, a return to Fuji (XH2/s) just for that reason alone, but Nikon Flat also looks really good…but neither good enough to warrant a switch from old Pannyboy for that reason alone! A switch to be able to shoot 6 or 8k 50p full frame over 4k 50p cropped, yes and this is where my future ‘weakness’ lies with Panasonic. At least until the next gen is revealed… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Any Nikon Z user know if/why IBIS turns off when adapting certain lenses? I didn't even know that IBIS could be locked off on mirrorless cameras, good feature actually, just sucks that it auto locks when using the FTZ adapter (but maybe only on vintage AIS or non Nikon lenses). 18 hours ago, MrSMW said: Have you tried the Flat profile? I’ve read and seen some good stuff coming from that. Last day of a semi-working break and been doing some musing as you (I) do and the pairing of Z8 & Z9 are back on top (had a short dalliance with an imaginary gal called R3 and for her body alone, she would still be my pick, but lenses, less attractive), especially now that the Tamron 35-150 has been officially announced. I wish I could try one but as none seem to be available in La belle France… Yeah I tried Flat (its also what I used to shoot with back in my D750 days). Its a good baked-in profile but I'm used to shooting Log for grading. By the way Z8/Z9/R3 are available in Paris. There is even a program in certain Fnac stores where you can borrow a cam/lens combo for 48h, I don't have the full details yet as I'm currently travelling but will get you the info if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 52 minutes ago, Django said: By the way Z8/Z9/R3 are available in Paris. There is even a program in certain Fnac stores where you can borrow a cam/lens combo for 48h, I don't have the full details yet as I'm currently travelling but will get you the info if you're interested October or Nov, I could very well be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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