New Nikon Camera coming…Z8?

[gethin]

well after a day of cutting z8 and mavic 3 footage, I'm wondering what the hell I'm doing. I stumbled on some phantom 4 pro stuff I shot a few year ago and honestly its less noisy, has better highlight rolloff, but most of all it was quicker: That's the thing I'm increasingly thinking. Maybe I can improve on what I was doing 3 years ago, but only a bit, if at all, and at what time cost? If I have to denoise every shot, and mask windows to try to squeak some highlights in from outside, for a marginal improvement in a sector where I'm competing with people charging $200 and shooting on an iphone. I've seen some of the HDR iphone footage and its pretty amazing.   

[D Verco]

20 hours ago, Django said:

Any Nikon Z user know if/why IBIS turns off when adapting certain lenses?

Probably have to manually input focal length 

[D Verco]

Has anyone posted some footage from the Z8/9? I want to see what I can do with it in resolve now. 

 

Also probably don't bother competing with people charging $200

[kye]

2 hours ago, D Verco said:

Also probably don't bother competing with people charging $200

Yep - well said!

[ND64]

On 8/1/2023 at 6:43 PM, gethin said:

If I have to denoise every shot, and mask windows to try to squeak some highlights in from outside, for a marginal improvement in a sector where I'm competing with people charging $200 and shooting on an iphone. I've seen some of the HDR iphone footage and its pretty amazing

There is a lot of great capabilities with computational photography that Japanese camera makers could use, and didn't, but the point of having interchangeable lens camera is to have more control, not less. Of course you get more noise, to control how you like to deal with it.

And what iPhone does with highlights is anything but pleasing. I don't blame the AI tho. Stacking multiple frames with different exposure to get a "normal" looking image is still a challenge for humans too. 

[Emanuel]

 

[Django]

On 8/1/2023 at 5:13 PM, gethin said:

well after a day of cutting z8 and mavic 3 footage, I'm wondering what the hell I'm doing. I stumbled on some phantom 4 pro stuff I shot a few year ago and honestly its less noisy, has better highlight rolloff, but most of all it was quicker: That's the thing I'm increasingly thinking. Maybe I can improve on what I was doing 3 years ago, but only a bit, if at all, and at what time cost? If I have to denoise every shot, and mask windows to try to squeak some highlights in from outside, for a marginal improvement in a sector where I'm competing with people charging $200 and shooting on an iphone. I've seen some of the HDR iphone footage and its pretty amazing.   

As others have stated the AI/computational stuff you get from phones, drones etc shouldn't be compared to what you're getting raw from a mirrorless cam. It's definitely going to take more work in post and more effort during shooting to get there.

FYI Z9 recently got a 4.0 FW update that adds a low (100) ISO mode to N-log. Early reports suggest noise is gone. This firmware should be coming very soon to Z8 and hopefully be a bit of a game changer when it comes to noise issues with N-log.

[Emanuel]

Just posted on another thread but to this topic related as far as Z8 concerns:

 

@markr041 @gethin @Ilkka Nissila you're Z8 users... can you add your opinion on overheating issues concern here, please?

[Ilkka Nissila]

21 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Just posted on another thread but to this topic related as far as Z8 concerns:

 

@markr041 @gethin @Ilkka Nissila you're Z8 users... can you add your opinion on overheating issues concern here, please?

I have had the Z8 since late May and have not experienced any heat-related warnings or other signs of overheating. I live in Finland so our weather is not like Florida but we've had 28 C days. When shooting video, I have used mostly Prores 422 HQ in 4K/25, 4K/50 or 1080p/50 but also tested 4K/120 h.265 and they all worked fine in and out of doors. The most I shot on a day was about 200 GB of video onto CFexpress type B (325 GB ProGrade Digital Cobalt). I've also used Sony 128 GB CFexpress and those didn't overheat in the time required to fill up the card in 4K/25 Prores 422 HQ but the card was very warm to the touch afterwards. 

 

Tests published on youtube by Ricci Chera (who works for Nikon School UK, so keep that in mind), Gerald Undone and others generally found that the Z8 can overheat in the most data-intensive video modes in about 30 min if using memory cards that tend to run hot, but using the right cards (Delkin Black is reported to run the coolest, Prograde Digital Cobalt is also good), the camera typically runs out of battery (2 hours on one charge of the EN-EL15c) before overheating, according to those reports. Both Delkin Black and Prograde Cobalt cards are sometimes significantly discounted at B&H, so if getting a Z8, one may want to look out for those deals. My own experience confirms that the Prograde Cobalt seems to run less hot than the Sony and I'm happy with the purchase although these cards aren't exactly cheap. For longer recording times I would likely go with Delkin Power as those are available in larger capacities.

 

I love the Prores 422 HQ; such amazing detail and color. I have no experience shooting 8K.

[Django]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:22 AM, Ilkka Nissila said:

I have had the Z8 since late May and have not experienced any heat-related warnings or other signs of overheating. I live in Finland so our weather is not like Florida but we've had 28 C days. When shooting video, I have used mostly Prores 422 HQ in 4K/25, 4K/50 or 1080p/50 but also tested 4K/120 h.265 and they all worked fine in and out of doors. The most I shot on a day was about 200 GB of video onto CFexpress type B (325 GB ProGrade Digital Cobalt). I've also used Sony 128 GB CFexpress and those didn't overheat in the time required to fill up the card in 4K/25 Prores 422 HQ but the card was very warm to the touch afterwards. 

 

Tests published on youtube by Ricci Chera (who works for Nikon School UK, so keep that in mind), Gerald Undone and others generally found that the Z8 can overheat in the most data-intensive video modes in about 30 min if using memory cards that tend to run hot, but using the right cards (Delkin Black is reported to run the coolest, Prograde Digital Cobalt is also good), the camera typically runs out of battery (2 hours on one charge of the EN-EL15c) before overheating, according to those reports. Both Delkin Black and Prograde Cobalt cards are sometimes significantly discounted at B&H, so if getting a Z8, one may want to look out for those deals. My own experience confirms that the Prograde Cobalt seems to run less hot than the Sony and I'm happy with the purchase although these cards aren't exactly cheap. For longer recording times I would likely go with Delkin Power as those are available in larger capacities.

Yeah I noticed the Z8/Z9 have two overheat warnings: card hot & camera body hot. Interesting to hear some CFexpress cards run cooler than others, good to know! Of course overheating is mostly a concern in 4K60p/4K120p/8K.

The fact that the camera shoots ProRes HQ should in theory mean less heat when shooting in that codec since it is much less CPU hungry than h26x. 

On 8/7/2023 at 10:22 AM, Ilkka Nissila said:

I love the Prores 422 HQ; such amazing detail and color. I have no experience shooting 8K.

This is definitely one of the main selling points to me. Not only does Prores 422 HQ deliver ace IQ & motion but it also edits like butter on just about any computer system. That alongside the stacked sensor could make me switch back to Nikon despite my few gripes with the camera.

[D Verco]

if they added open gate (and 4:5 for stills), I'd probably cave and buy this camera. It's expensive but those 2 things would really tip the scales for me.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, D Verco said:

if they added open gate (and 4:5 for stills), I'd probably cave and buy this camera. It's expensive but those 2 things would really tip the scales for me.

Open Gate for sure.

I have been using 6k 30p up until the last few weeks for this very reason, the ability to produce 2 productions from the same result. Just one being sub 1.5 minutes and 9:16.

Having the full sensor height and using a 9:16 overlay when shooting was perfect…except being in a PAL region and being a fairly heavy slo mo shooter, shooting 30p has been a big compromise.

Too big a compromise so I have gone back to shooting cropped 4k 50p which fixes my slo mo issue, but reduces my ability to produce that second social media production a bit…

I’m looking forward to shooting that next gen of camera next year whoever it is with, but the Z8 has to be the strongest contender for me right now based on what exists.

[gethin]

I shot my last vid in 8bit h.265 flat with active dlight cranked to the max, and I honestly think I got a better result than I've been getting with 10 but nlog.  Just looking at the histogram nlog was leaving big bands of nothing at either end so those extra 2 bits were probably going to waste. 8 bit was using the full histogram, and I think has some inbuilt noise reduction which saved me a bunch of time in post.  There were a couple of shots that I ettr'd a bit too much, but they were just about salvageable.

The post was so much quicker. I could chuck on all my presets from my z6, and the h.265 fell apart less.

But it leaves me wondering why I spent $7.5k on a new camera 🤔

They need to have optional noise reduction and dlight available on 10bit footage. Nlog is garbage.  I've not bothered with nraw yet.

Mostly shoot in 4k at 25,30,50,60 and a few 8k30 shots

 

 

 

 

 

[ND64]

Just now, gethin said:

I've not bothered with nraw yet.

Use 4k nraw instead. Smaller file size, less noise. Its pixel binned, but your customer won't notice that. Watch this Nikon Canada video for quick guid on Davinci color management setup for nlog:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1OniQF68UiM

[markr041]

8K 60P RAW.

Hot card warning only.

 

[Emanuel]

17 hours ago, markr041 said:

8K 60P RAW.

Hot card warning only.

 

How many minutes of use?

[markr041]

21 hours ago, Emanuel said:

How many minutes of use?

Th recordings of the violinist were about 2-3 minutes each. The rest of the shots were about 10-15 seconds. The camera was out for two hours in the sun, 78 F.

[markr041]

4K 120P NRAW.

Hot card warning. Short original clips extended and trimmed in post..

[FHDcrew]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:15 AM, gethin said:

I shot my last vid in 8bit h.265 flat with active dlight cranked to the max, and I honestly think I got a better result than I've been getting with 10 but nlog.  Just looking at the histogram nlog was leaving big bands of nothing at either end so those extra 2 bits were probably going to waste. 8 bit was using the full histogram, and I think has some inbuilt noise reduction which saved me a bunch of time in post.  There were a couple of shots that I ettr'd a bit too much, but they were just about salvageable.

The post was so much quicker. I could chuck on all my presets from my z6, and the h.265 fell apart less.

But it leaves me wondering why I spent $7.5k on a new camera 🤔

They need to have optional noise reduction and dlight available on 10bit footage. Nlog is garbage.  I've not bothered with nraw yet.

Mostly shoot in 4k at 25,30,50,60 and a few 8k30 shots

 

 

 

 

 

I too have gotten good results from Nikon FLAT (on my Z6).  Try doing a CST to Arri LogC followed by the Arri rec709 LUT in davinci resolve.  Set the tone mapping to none.  Add contrast prior to the conversion.  You'll like the results:

[markr041]

Americana:

12bit RAW, and I needed all the latitude I could get given the very mixed lighting levels (luma adjustments in post) and the different colors of the lighting (WB adjustments in post).