New Nikon Camera coming…Z8?

[wolf33d]

8 hours ago, Django said:

If you're a solo shooter doing events/sports you might be shooting video and cannot switch to stills at a specific moment so grabbing (8K) stills is a very handy option. @gt3rs has been doing this a lot with R5/R5C on his extreme sports and safari shoots and the stills look amazing. 

This Z8 if rumoured specs and price are correct is really shaping up to be the R5/R5C killer from Nikon. 

I have been using an R5 happily for years never got a heating issue even once. In which way the Z8 would kill the R5?

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

In this situation what do you do for shutter speed? Or is the video likely to be 50p so 1/100 which would be ok for stills? I've found 1/50 needs a static subject to extract decent stills.

Yes, or screw the 180 degree shutter rule and go 1/250. 

I often shoot without ND’s and crank the shutter speeds into the thousands. Or used to. I may just go back to that all the time because I don’t really notice any difference.

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Double Post!!

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

The Z9 rolling shutter is reported to be a lot faster for stills than video, so it's better to just use it in stills mode if you want stills. The frame is larger, it is read faster, there is more dynamic range, the option of less compression, and you can even start the recording before pressing the shutter button fully down.

I have had a used one in and out of my shopping basket several times but backed out each time.

I’m really just waiting to see what Panasonic do with the S1 line replacement because ideally I’d stay within the L Mount ecosystem but not 100% committed to doing so.

[Django]

1 hour ago, wolf33d said:

I have been using an R5 happily for years never got a heating issue even once. In which way the Z8 would kill the R5?

Figure of speech. There simply hasn't been until now an R5 competitor, i.e FF 45MP 8K Raw internal camera in the $4.5K range. And the Z8 could trump it thanks to its stacked sensor performance and little big things like ProRes, full HDMI, unlimited recording, thermal management etc.

Of course all this remains to be seen, and I'm sure an R5 mk2 is planned but I just think its very good for us consumers that Nikon is back challenging Canon again.

[D Verco]

This is going to be tough. I'm ready to upgrade my z6, and I want better video (at least internal 10bit log) so I can grade it to match the xh2s. And I'd like a step up in AF and MP. But I don't need 45mp, or 20fps, or even 8k, and don't want to spend that much on a camera. But it doesn't look like there's any z6iii coming in the next 12 months. 

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

FYI - GOT was shot on 8 and 20 megapixel sensors with a lot of fx 

I felt a bit skeptical about that statement, so I looked it up:

The tv series Game of Thrones, released in 2011, was shot on digital using ARRI ALEXA Camera, ARRI ALEXA Mini Camera, Red Epic Dragon Camera and Angenieux Optimo Zoom Lenses, Cooke S4/i Lenses and editing was done on the Avid Editing System.

https://shotonwhat.com/game-of-thrones-2011

So I expect the vast bulk of it was shot in not even 4K, but less than that, with the ARRI cameras. 

With perhaps a small small portion (such as VFX plates) shot with RED Dragon (a 19 megapixel sensor). 

[BTM_Pix]

I’ve been waiting it out for a Z9 to buy as my forever camera ever since it was launched.

Two things were holding me back, namely there being an actual supply of them and then me being able to go to Japan to buy a used one.

I’ve been in no rush and as I’m going to Tokyo at the beginning of June and there are plenty of used ones available at MapCamera now, the time has actually come to get one.

Which has coincided on me going cool on the idea.

Bear in mind that I haven’t been inside a real camera shop since COVID so I’ve never actually seen a Z9 in real life but yesterday I met someone in Berlin who has one and let me have a go with it.

And well…

If the Z8 does indeed turn out to be a form factor reduced Z9 with a 25-30% price reduction too then I’m probably in.

The Z9 form factor doesn’t bother me in the slightest coming from my heritage of D3/D4/D5 use but maybe it would be nicer to have the option of a Z8 with a battery grip to pick and choose sizes depending on what I’m doing with it.

Ironically, it was the lenses that were leading me to and then away from the Z9.

I have a large collection of high end F mount lenses from my pro days gathering dust so the Z9 with the FTZ was the logical way to bring them into the modern era.

But I then didn’t fancy buying into the native Z lenses for when I want to have something smaller and lighter as I found them a bit expensive and not much 3rd party stuff to write home about made it worse.

So in the end I decided it was time to cut the losses with the F mount and go in with L or even E mount cameras.

However…

The man who let me use his Z9 (you might know him, not an Uber League Swingball player or anything but knows about cameras) had something interesting on it.

You have to look closely but it’s that waffa theeen Megadap E mount to Z AF adapter and it changes a lot for me.

The adapter more or less gives native lens performance of E mount lenses on the Z cameras.

I have a couple of E mount lenses so that is good but more importantly it opens up affordable and interesting 3rd party lenses like the Sigma’s contemporary series or primes and zooms and Tamron’s 35-150 f2/f2.8 which are now effectively available in Z mount using this adapter.

This means that the Z8 can not only be viewed as baby Z9 but also as a baby Alpha 1, particularly for anyone with a decent collection of E mount lenses already.

 

[BTM_Pix]

One thing that might tip me into buying a used Z9 (aside from Z8 possibly not being available from stock when I go on my trip) is whether they have cut BLE timecode from the Z8 as I have a bit of commitment to that through Zoom audio recorders and now the Atomos Connect add on for the Ninja V.

Hopefully it will also support the remote grip as well

Fuck it, I’m getting a used Z9 aren’t I?

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Which has coincided on me going cool on the idea.

I would have bought one a while back but there just were none available new or used without paying up to +2k more.

Then later, when available, they lost me because I went cool on the idea.

But I keep coming back to two lenses; that Tamron 35-150 and their 20-40.

And it’s Sony or adapted Nikon…

I really do not like switching around lenses mid job and 24/28-70/75’s are too short, 70-200’s too long, 16-28’s don’t really need that extreme width but not quite long enough. I dislike the 24-105 because it’s too slow in low light and the AF is sluggish.

Tamron have absolutely nailed it for me…but I can’t adapt them to L Mount. At least not without losing AF. Prove me wrong!

Z9 makes most sense because I would only use the adapted 20-40 first 10% of any job, then switch to 35-150 for the next 80% (and that lens needs a grip IMO) and then back to the 20-40 for the last 10%.

I’m talking stills only, but v. interested in pulling stills from 8k video so it could fulfill a true hybrid role for me.

Just had yet another job wrestling with too many bodies and too many lenses…

I have a month until the next job so…

Looking very hard at it…

[MrSMW]

7 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Fuck it, I’m getting a used Z9 aren’t I?

Fairly close behind you and I could even go 2 body instead of my target 3 from my current 4.

It would still require some investment but…possibly ‘fuck it’ time here also 🙈

[Django]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

You have to look closely but it’s that waffa theeen Megadap E mount to Z AF adapter and it changes a lot for me.

 

I was unaware of this smart adapter, very interesting especially the thinness!

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

If the Z8 does indeed turn out to be a form factor reduced Z9 with a 25-30% price reduction too then I’m probably in.

Dimensions: 144×118×83mm | 5.6×4.6×3.2in

Weight: under 1kg

Definitely reduced from Z9 but way chunkier then a Z6/Z7 or even most mirrorless.

SAR did some comparisons and it's not too far from a D850 which imo is kinda great. 

I really miss DSLR type ergonomics, minus the weight (rumour has it uses some kind of carbon fiber compound).

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Tamron have absolutely nailed it for me…but I can’t adapt them to L Mount. At least not without losing AF. Prove me wrong!

Same 2mm difference in flange distance but unfortunately it’s in the wrong direction so E to L isn’t possible.

L to Z (or E) is possible though if someone had the will to do it.

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It would still require some investment but…possibly ‘fuck it’ time here also 🙈

Ironic if the Z8 causes everyone to buy the Z9 after all!!

4 hours ago, Django said:

I was unaware of this smart adapter, very interesting especially the thinness!

2mm !!

4 hours ago, Django said:

really miss DSLR type ergonomics, minus the weight (rumour has it uses some kind of carbon fiber compound).

It felt like my D5 in the hand as it’s roughly the same weight.

That sort of weight doesn’t bother me as it’s balanced and has the right heft.

Felt so familiar that I could have walked away with it, put the big glass on it and shot a game without knowing it was any different than my D4 or D5.

Unfortunately, the pesky owner knows where I live so I had to hand it back.

[SRV1981]

17 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I felt a bit skeptical about that statement, so I looked it up:

The tv series Game of Thrones, released in 2011, was shot on digital using ARRI ALEXA Camera, ARRI ALEXA Mini Camera, Red Epic Dragon Camera and Angenieux Optimo Zoom Lenses, Cooke S4/i Lenses and editing was done on the Avid Editing System.

https://shotonwhat.com/game-of-thrones-2011

So I expect the vast bulk of it was shot in not even 4K, but less than that, with the ARRI cameras. 

With perhaps a small small portion (such as VFX plates) shot with RED Dragon (a 19 megapixel sensor). 

Yes as I said 40 mp hybrids don’t seem to be needed for video even for VFX. That said, I’m just making a point that I’d love to see more RD into color and DR than MP - I am guessing this z8 won’t move in that direction. I hope I’m wrong. 

[MrSMW]

Close call, but not happening for me.

3 reasons.

Reason 1 = in order to edit 8k 50p raw, have to use Davinci. I am a Premiere user and mid season, learning new software is not an option.

I am however VERY interested in at some point in the future, having the ability to shoot at least 6k, if not 8k as a viable ‘third option’ alongside regular 4K video and stills in order to extract hi res stills. I reckon I could even go 2 camera if I had this ability, hence the interest in the Z9.

Reason 2 = mid season brand change is not ideal so if I can avoid, great. It’s not a deal-breaker as such, but I know where I am with Panny re. handling, shooting, editing, quirks etc.

Reason 3 = I am sure Panny will release a successor to the S1 line that will answer my need.

Reason 4 (bonus reason!) = not a single legit one for sale in the whole of the EU that is not from some slightly dubious importer of over-inflated used price. Can’t even create an alert on MPB for this model anymore!

Pity because a pairing of Z9 and Z8 with 3 lenses would answer all my needs, but at this point in time, circumstances say it is not happening.

Instead, pre-ordering a pair of S5iix’s and ‘trading’ these for my pair of S1R’s and single S1H taking me from my current 4 body set up to a 3.

Flip out screens but grrr, have to make a compromise somewhere…

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Reason 1 = in order to edit 8k 50p raw, have to use Davinci. I am a Premiere user and mid season, learning new software is not an option.

To be fair, it does have some quirks even within the formats.

For me it would be OK as I would likely use ProRes for 4K and 8K RAW and don’t mind Resolve but it is certainly worth anyone contemplating the Z9 studying this chart 

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Reason 2 = mid season brand change is not ideal so if I can avoid, great. It’s not a deal-breaker as such, but I know where I am with Panny re. handling, shooting, editing, quirks etc.

As an ex-D3 user it will have a lot of familiarity but yeah not ideal to be changing mid season.

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Reason 3 = I am sure Panny will release a successor to the S1 line that will answer my need.

The possibility of what seemed at the time like the imminent announcement of the S1Hmk2 is what had me cooling on the Z9.

And it might yet do that still if it  gets announced in the next few weeks.

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Reason 4 (bonus reason!) = not a single legit one for sale in the whole of the EU that is not from some slightly dubious importer of over-inflated used price. Can’t even create an alert on MPB for this model anymore!

Not for you at the moment for the reasons you’ve laid out but if anyone does want one used in the EU then I think @Andrew Reid knows of one that is available…

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not for you at the moment for the reasons you’ve laid out but if anyone does want one used in the EU then I think @Andrew Reid knows of one that is available…

Is he selling one?

The actual deal-breaker every single time I have tried to buy one is availability...

Tried from approx Oct last year until Feb this year and then gave up or I WOULD have switched.

Then quite a few came up for sale in March circa 5k euros or under. Could have jumped then, but was back committed to L Mount.

Had a small window again last few days...and now NONE are available, anyway (except sketchy imports etc) but with a 3 week window to order any/all new kit and get up to speed with it, availability once again blew it.

Perhaps for the best... Stuck in my 5iix pre-order and got 5% off plus the free 2TB Sandisk HD they are giving away.

Company I am buying from reckons 21st May availability.

I am travelling 25th for a 2 gig back to back job(s) so ideally need it sorted prior to then, because for that and after, fairly busy time again.

I'm not selling any of my current gear though just in case the new stuff does not arrive for whatever reason in which case I just carry on as is until it does pitch up.

I am though pretty frustrated juggling 4 cameras and 6 lenses so looking forward to going 3x identical one's (OK, one will be a standard ii and not a iix but otherwise the same) and just 4 lenses.

2 Nikon bodies + 3 lenses would have been even better, but that set of planets just will not align for me.

[Django]

Wait until Z8 gets announced and I suspect used Z9's will pop up again although a new Z8 + grip and full warranty might still be a better package. Z8's are expected to start shipping before the end of the month..

 

FWIW I tried a Z7ii yesterday just to get a feel for Nikon mirrorless (Z8 being the first Z cam that ticks my boxes) and although it felt extremely rugged and I LOVE that they haven't switched to flip-out displays, the ergonomics were a little weird, and I noticed a really annoying lag on the touch screen. I'm assuming these quirks are ironed out on Z9 and hence Z8 though..

 

[MrSMW]

Well I do hope they do ship quite early because the lack of availability of Z9's at launch and since must have pissed off a lot of people. Me being one of them!

I think for me though, the window opened briefly, but by the time I can exploit it again, Lumix will (hopefully) have announced an S2H and an S2R.

If I had jumped, I wouldn't have looked back (or sideways) with anything but mild interest because I'm not looking to flip flop to whatever is this quarters darling, but what I need to do my job without it being a ball ache.

Z8 looking very good though! 

[ND64]

1 hour ago, Django said:

I LOVE that they haven't switched to flip-out displays

I like flip-out displays but I know people who work in repair shops and they told me they see a lot of broken ones. Most of the times the data cable can't handle the usual wear and tear. What is completely absent in long term camera reviews are technical opinions of the guys who repair these stuff several months after their release.