Budget Timecode Sync Solutions

[And1]

Here is a topic for timecode hacks. 

The reason I've decided to start it is to shoot my question as well: I'll be shooting a short with a Blackmagic 6k, and two zoom f2's with lavs (non bt version both), with two actors - and was wondering if I can output the timecode from the 6k to sync both lavs or alternatively using another solution (I know tentacle isn't working with the F2, so maybe atomos ultrasync or deity tc1?)

 

[BTM_Pix]

Whilst its true that if you had the BT versions then you would be able to achieve it, even then its still not that straightforward/inexpensive as you would need the Ultrasync One for the camera and also the UltraSync Blue to connect to that to provide the BT timecode to the F2s.

With the non-BT versions you will have to rely on basic audio sync in post but that has got a lot slicker over the past couple of years so, whilst far from being as ideal as having TC sync, it will still do the job albeit with an additional burden on file handling and making sure the mics are rolling etc.

The issue with doing it through basic audio sync though is you still have to get good scratch audio into the camera to make the post syncing easier.

This is where using a Rode Wireless Go system (or similar) in tandem with the F2s will be a big advantage if you have access to them. 

The output of each F2 can be attached to the input of a Wireless Go as shown here in the Newsshooter review (https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/01/14/zoom-f2-review/).

The dual channel receiver can then be attached to the input of the 6K to provide good scratch audio of both F2s in the camera files whilst still taking advantage of the 32bit float audio of the recorder's own internal recordings.

Of course, this setup will also be a boon in terms of remote monitoring of the audio of the F2s.

Obviously you don't need to go the extra step with the transmitters/receivers and can just use any decent mic that you have around plugged into the camera but the audio monitoring aspect of such a setup for the F2s will potentially payoff in picking up issues.

[And1]

That's a great idea actually, thank you. 

Isn't there a way either through connecting the Bmpcc 6k to the F2 or via an app or something like that?

[BTM_Pix]

31 minutes ago, And1 said:

Isn't there a way either through connecting the Bmpcc 6k to the F2 or via an app or something like that?

The 6K timecode can actually be read over bluetooth so with the F2BT versions it would be possible if the Atomos/Timecode systems used the same protocol but unfortunately they don't.

Even if the UltraSync Blue had to sit in the middle as a translator (as it does with the Nikon Z8/Z9) then that would be something but that would require Atomos and BM collaborating which is extremely unlikely considering the rivalry in terms of monitor/recorder products between them, let alone the long standing antipathy between them.

For anyone using a Ninja V to monitor P4/6K etc, you can roll your own solution by using the Atomos Connect add on which will act as a BT timecode hub for the Zoom, Tascam etc products that support the protocol.

I have one of these on order and have a few Zoom BT timecode products such as the F2BT and H3-VR (and an F3 shortly) so I'll report back how it turns out if it ever shows up.

[IronFilm]

Am afraid the standard Zoom F2 is useless for using with TC, you need the Zoom F2-BT version. (plus the TCS Ultrasync Blue, and 2x TCS USO for each Blackmagic Pocket 6K. Oh, and TCS Ltd has been bought out by Atomos now)

If you haven't yet got the Zooms, I'd recommend you get instead the Tentacle Track E instead, it is a better/easier setup. 

If you can wait, you might want to get the Deity PR-2 pocket recorder instead.

https://deitymic.com/products/pr-2/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/04/18/deity-releases-the-pr-2-pocket-recorder-with-32-bit-float/ 

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/pr-2-pocket-recorder 

[And1]

Thank you, unfortunately I already own the Zoom F2's (non BT). 

I guess my best bet would be getting a Rode wireless go II or something similar, work like @BTM_Pixsuggested.

Great advice, again

[IronFilm]

Are you going to be mostly shooting indoors or outdoors? 

If indoors, just be very diligent with your slating, making sure there is a loud clear clap (heck, do tails too?? So there is a double clap per take) and perhaps the audio can always be easily synced via waveform. 

You'll have a Boom Op / recordist too?? 

[Ty Harper]

@IronFilm I have a Zoom F4, Zoom F3 and an Atomos Ninja V+. As a OMB hobbyist I don't usually need timecode but ran into a scenario recently where I was passing footage off to a friend and it would've been useful to have in that case. With all that in mind, what in your opinion would be the most prudent timecode system I should invest in? 

As always thanks for being so gracious with your knowledge over the years!

[Grimor]

I recently found a second-hand bargain of 4 betso transceivers for just 150 euros. We usually shoot with 2 jvc GY-hc 500, 1 Sony FX6 and 2 GH5S, plus the SD mixpre 3 II. In this way, although none of them keep time precisely, I can have everything in sync wirelessly, thanks to the transmitters. Surely it is not the most modern or most appropriate, but it works for me.

[BTM_Pix]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:56 AM, Ty Harper said:

I have a Zoom F4, Zoom F3 and an Atomos Ninja V+. As a OMB hobbyist I don't usually need timecode but ran into a scenario recently where I was passing footage off to a friend and it would've been useful to have in that case. With

As you already have the Ninja then it may be worth looking at the Atomos Connect which does a few different things (shoot to cloud, stream on set, adds SDI to the Ninja etc) but can act as the central timecode hub.

It will embed the timecode into whatever you are recording on the Ninja V (which would also take care of your footage handoff scenario) whilst also acting as the master wireless timecode source for the Atomos/TimecodeSytems family of products.

So you could attach an UltraSync One to anything that has a timecode input (such as your F4 or other cameras) and they would sync wirelessly and you could also do the same with your F3 (with the BTA-1 dongle) or anything else that supports their Bluetooth timecode protocol.

As the Atomos Connect provides the timecode over Bluetooth then you wouldn’t need the additional UltraSync Blue unit that is usually required to sync things like the F3.

So in that regard you can knock £180 off the price of the Atomos Connect due to that saving.

You’d then be also able to painlessly integrate other products such as the F2-BT lav recorder or even Tascam X8 or Nikon Z8/9.

I’m picking my Atomos Connect up the week after next (they had it in a heavily discounted bundle with the AtomX Cast which turns the Ninja V into a 4 camera switcher) so I’ll report back if it works as advertised!

[Ty Harper]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’m picking my Atomos Connect up the week after next (they had it in a heavily discounted bundle with the AtomX Cast which turns the Ninja V into a 4 camera switcher) so I’ll report back if it works as advertised!

Thanks for all insight! I've heard the Atomos Connect was quite buggy and underdeveloped upon release - have all the issues been addressed/fixed?

[BTM_Pix]

I’ll find out soon !

Judging by the release notes for the latest firmware there are still a few known issues.

One known issue they solved in this release is that you can now have two rather than one BLE timecode equipped device synced to it. That there was any limitation to one was unknown to me and increasing it to two is a bit of a limitation. I’m guessing they still want people to buy an UltraSync Blue to act as a hub to increase capability up to seven (one direct and six using the UltraSync Blue as a hub for the other six)

There is always some niggle with Atomos products.

https://f002.backblazeb2.com/file/atomos-uploads/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/02174154/AtomOS_10.92.00_NINJAV_Release_Notes.html
 

[Ty Harper]

@BTM_Pix been researching this a bit more and seems like all I need is one Tentacle Sync E MKII to connect with the Zoom F4 (via TC in) then to the Zoom F3 (via bluetooth) and if necessary, the Ninja V (via the 3.5 line-in/LTC). I'd just need to reconnect them if I'm shooting for many hours to avoid audio drift. Or am I missing something?

 

[Ty Harper]

Actually my bad, the Tentacle can only connect to the Zoom F3 via XLR, so I guess there's that to comsdier too, hmm...

[BTM_Pix]

The BLE Timecode protocols are also not compatible between the Atomos (ie what you need for the F3) and the Tentacle systems.

Infuriatingly.

[Ty Harper]

Yep, it's exactly the reason I take my time with these purchases and ask lots of questions in this forum bcuz there's always a f*ckin catch, smh.... so thanks for your help! Seems like with just one Tentacle or Ultrasync One unit I could theoretically sync my R5C, R5, Zoom F4, F3 and Ninja V+. Seems like the reason to go Ultrasync would be whether I see a future in their Bluetooth offerings which right now seem like a deadend, altho it would be sweet to have all my current gear sync up via their Connect/Ultrasync One/Blue - it's just way too expensive imo.

[IronFilm]

On 6/5/2023 at 12:56 PM, Ty Harper said:

@IronFilm I have a Zoom F4, Zoom F3 and an Atomos Ninja V+. As a OMB hobbyist I don't usually need timecode but ran into a scenario recently where I was passing footage off to a friend and it would've been useful to have in that case. With all that in mind, what in your opinion would be the most prudent timecode system I should invest in? 

As always thanks for being so gracious with your knowledge over the years!

Either Tentacle Sync E or Deity TC1 is what I'd recommend buying into. 

But honestly, any good secondhand deal you see online is fine to jump onto. 

[IronFilm]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:47 PM, BTM_Pix said:

As you already have the Ninja then it may be worth looking at the Atomos Connect which does a few different things (shoot to cloud, stream on set, adds SDI to the Ninja etc) but can act as the central timecode hub.

It will embed the timecode into whatever you are recording on the Ninja V (which would also take care of your footage handoff scenario) whilst also acting as the master wireless timecode source for the Atomos/TimecodeSytems family of products.

So you could attach an UltraSync One to anything that has a timecode input (such as your F4 or other cameras) and they would sync wirelessly and you could also do the same with your F3 (with the BTA-1 dongle) or anything else that supports their Bluetooth timecode protocol.

As the Atomos Connect provides the timecode over Bluetooth then you wouldn’t need the additional UltraSync Blue unit that is usually required to sync things like the F3.

So in that regard you can knock £180 off the price of the Atomos Connect due to that saving.

You’d then be also able to painlessly integrate other products such as the F2-BT lav recorder or even Tascam X8 or Nikon Z8/9.

I’m picking my Atomos Connect up the week after next (they had it in a heavily discounted bundle with the AtomX Cast which turns the Ninja V into a 4 camera switcher) so I’ll report back if it works as advertised!

Yup, this is also a good option. 

Although Atomos seems to be ignoring the TCS Ltd products and letting them die out after Atomos purchased the company. So less confident about their future. 

[IronFilm]

On 6/8/2023 at 5:22 PM, BTM_Pix said:

The BLE Timecode protocols are also not compatible between the Atomos (ie what you need for the F3) and the Tentacle systems.

Infuriatingly.

Yeah the "F" in the  Zoom F3 name isn't deserved in my opinion, as it is implementing TC in a weird crippled manner. 

I only recognize F4/F6/F8/F8n/F8nPro as being in the "F Series" 

[BTM_Pix]

8 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yup, this is also a good option. 

Although Atomos seems to be ignoring the TCS Ltd products and letting them die out after Atomos purchased the company. So less confident about their future. 

My Connect and AtomX Cast bundle has shown up so I'm going to have a play with it over the next couple of days with a couple of Zoom products.

It only supporting two BLE devices (via a new firmware update no less!) is a bit of a nonsense though.

If they are going to move forward with it then they could definitely do with a new version of either the Blue or the One that has both BLE and LTC and I'm also hoping Atomos can persuade the likes of Panasonic to add support for the BLE timecode into their cameras as Nikon have done.