Shock horror... a vlogging camera that is actually designed for vlogging????

[kye]

I didn't say it's good...  just that it's designed for vlogging!

The Canon PowerShot V10:

• Pocketable, flip-up screen, integrated stand
• 19mm equivalent FOV, and the EIS crop isn't that much
• Everything else is just like a PowerShot though.....  1" CMOS sensor, Contrast AF, low bitrate, etc

It's a sad day when simply combining an ergonomic chassis and a wide enough lens counts as innovation, but it does.  I've seen at least one camera YouTuber say that if they keep the form factor and improve the specs then this might tempt them away from the high-end S35/FF cameras they currently use.

[Emanuel]

Looks like people are prone to feel themselves attracted for the lowest the better, sorta eschatological. That vertical mania when we have eyes horizontally positioned is the proof of this.

[hyalinejim]

That's interesting! It looks amazingly compact.

Should be fairly easy to get vertical video with as well.

[BTM_Pix]

This is actually a bit of a rework/variation on a theme of Canon's Legria Mini/Mini X cameras from a decade ago.

I had the original one and it was pretty decent for what it did at the time and I think this new one might be an idea that has now met its time.

I've seen a lot of mocking about it but considering its a single purpose product then judging it on its suitability for that one purpose then it seems to have a lot going for it for a lot of its intended users.

 

[Emanuel]

I thought for vertical video we already have dummies with a smartphone in their hands and me trying to guess what they didn't frame from their videos.

[hyalinejim]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

a smartphone

And for horizontal video too. Just turn it sideways 😉

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

And for horizontal video too. Just turn it sideways 😉

That's for sure ; ) there are dummies for everything but once vertical use is something natural on using such devices, people tend to forget the natural position of their own eyes when not the head follows : D

[mercer]

8 hours ago, kye said:

I didn't say it's good...  just that it's designed for vlogging!

The Canon PowerShot V10:

• Pocketable, flip-up screen, integrated stand
• 19mm equivalent FOV, and the EIS crop isn't that much
• Everything else is just like a PowerShot though.....  1" CMOS sensor, Contrast AF, low bitrate, etc

It's a sad day when simply combining an ergonomic chassis and a wide enough lens counts as innovation, but it does.  I've seen at least one camera YouTuber say that if they keep the form factor and improve the specs then this might tempt them away from the high-end S35/FF cameras they currently use.

Good points except I think it is good... if I am to assume that the frame of the woman is a sample from the camera? I don't mean this next statement for anyone in particular and especially not you, but the shooters that think in terms of gear first, never understood Canon, so it's easy for them to criticize Canon and this is the perfect example.

Canon makes products for specific groups of people based on their needs.

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Canon makes products for specific groups of people based on their needs.

People's needs ain't necessarily mean anything other than their educated guess or lack of it.

This is the point when we don't understand our responsibility as players.

From a strictly limited POV, personal stuff for sure but subjective angle is not something fiercely bad, so science even less mainly when made by or coming from an educated standpoint.

It's all about that IMO ; )

long version

:- )

[Emanuel]

The wheel has already been invented so it's useless to write "ain't necessarily mean" when "don't necessarily mean" is the one to stand corrected ; )

The same way to always act accordingly the 'people and their needs' can become a wicked game as much as History is made by historians as for instance :- )

[mercer]

24 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

The wheel has already been invented so it's useless to write "ain't necessarily mean" when "don't necessarily mean" is the one to stand corrected ; )

The same way to always act accordingly the 'people and their needs' can become a wicked game as much as History is made by historians as for instance :- )

We're not talking about communism here. We're talking about a product that was designed and manufactured for a specific usage. Most of Canon's products are designed that way. They always were.

I'd imagine in the 70s when most manufacturers/consumers were heavily invested in SLRs, the Canonet line of cameras probably seemed pretty pedestrian, but that didn't stop Canon from putting a pretty spectacular lens on it and marketing it to a specific consumer at a reasonable price point. Even the Canonet line had different entry levels.

As far as this camera goes, the biggest omission is a tripod thread. Otherwise, for sit down, YouTube Vlogs... what more do you need? Only a thoughtful eye can tell the difference between a $500 camera, a $3000 camera or even a phone in YouTube videos.

I mean, they're not marketing it for indie filmmakers.

But... since it shoots 24p, an interesting film could be made with it if someone could see past the limitations and see the possibilities. 

[Emanuel]

Oh Gosh, Glenn, you sound like a fanboy now! Well, I am used to praise Canon too but ; )

22 minutes ago, mercer said:

We're talking about a product that was designed and manufactured for a specific usage.

Nothing wrong on that, just when people are going down the hill, we cannot follow the trend only because it is convenient. They don't give a damn for anything other than taking advantage of an opportunity to take profit. No ethics nor aesthetics there but they claim to push the craft or art forward. How come? Morals count. Science too. What makes sense should. Like nature. Going against a natural law is something I can never buy. As much as math, we don't discuss or reinvent it, we just adequate ourselves to. No democracy down there.

:- )

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Oh Gosh, Glenn, you sound like a fanboy now! Well, I am used to praise Canon too but ; )

Nothing wrong on that, just when people are going down the hill, we cannot follow the trend only because it is convenient. They don't give a damn for anything other than taking advantage of an opportunity to take profit. No ethics nor aesthetics there but they claim to push the craft or art forward. How come? Morals count. Science too. What makes sense should. Like nature. Going against a natural law is something I can never buy. As much as math, we don't discuss or reinvent it, we just adequate ourselves to. No democracy down there.

:- )

Canon only exists to make a profit. That is their, and every other company's, sole purpose. They make a profit by providing products that the market wants/needs.

It's really quite simple.

As far as 'going against nature' or science, I can only assume you're referring to vertical video... based on your previous statement. I agree with you... I despise it. Luckily, in its natural form, this PowerShot camera shoots 16:9 video but you can turn it if you want vertical video.

That seems fairly acceptable to me. As much as I hate it, I understand that, due to smartphones' inability to make 16:9 shooting simpler and peoples' inherent laziness, there is a desire for vertical video and since Canon isn't in the smartphone business, they need to offer that possibility.

But out of box, this vlogging  camera shoots 16:9 in its natural form factor.

[mercer]

As far as being a fanboy... I don't really care about brands. But I must say that I have always gotten along better with Canon cameras than any other brand. In fact, I am tired of using other brands and being disappointed. I'm probably going to go all in with Canon from this point forward. If that makes me a fanboy... of Gawd... I'm too old to care. 

[Emanuel]

54 minutes ago, mercer said:

As far as being a fanboy... I don't really care about brands. But I must say that I have always gotten along better with Canon cameras than any other brand. In fact, I am tired of using other brands and being disappointed. I'm probably going to go all in with Canon from this point forward. If that makes me a fanboy... of Gawd... I'm too old to care. 

You do it right, hence here we are to say to them those lines above, I believe. This kind of devices are anything but a pain in the ass just for the sake of motion pictures they simply don't care as you say. So why to be surprised when people complain and show some love where they can't or don't give a shit for? : D

[kye]

11 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

That's interesting! It looks amazingly compact.

Should be fairly easy to get vertical video with as well.

Indeed!

It might even align with @Emanuels philosophy because when it's being held normally it's in widescreen and when you turn it then it becomes the "wrong" alignment of vertical video.  So it's oriented around landscape by default, but for those doing vertical it easily supports it.

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

This is actually a bit of a rework/variation on a theme of Canon's Legria Mini/Mini X cameras from a decade ago.

I had the original one and it was pretty decent for what it did at the time and I think this new one might be an idea that has now met its time.

I've seen a lot of mocking about it but considering its a single purpose product then judging it on its suitability for that one purpose then it seems to have a lot going for it for a lot of its intended users.

 

That's quite cool, and the styling is one flavour of "what the future looked like in the past" which are always interesting - this one is quite 'Casio digital watch meets dictaphone' 🙂

One thing I've found fascinating, and sort of prompted my comments about this being an innovation, is that the biggest attempts to sell cameras for "vlogging" were of cameras that were so clearly not suited for vlogging, and yet, there have been many cameras in the past that are much more suited but weren't marketed nearly as much under the 'vlogging' banner.

Something like a GoPro is actually a killer vlogging form-factor.  It's very small and combined with a handle is still smaller and far less noticeable in public than even a small mirrorless or P&S.  The lens is easily wide enough, and when combined with their killer EIS is still really wide, is fixed focus so has no AF issues at all unless you want to focus on something closer than its minimum distance, etc.  The DJI Osmo Action is a solid choice too, for all the same reasons, and the Osmo Pocket literally has an integrated gimbal, and is a 20mm lens which doesn't need any cropping to get perfect stabilisation.

2 hours ago, mercer said:

As far as this camera goes, the biggest omission is a tripod thread. Otherwise, for sit down, YouTube Vlogs... what more do you need? Only a thoughtful eye can tell the difference between a $500 camera, a $3000 camera or even a phone in YouTube videos.

Actually, it has a tripod thread on the bottom too, so that's covered.

In terms of video quality, it seems pretty lacklustre unfortunately, unless it's given really good lighting and conditions.  Here's one of the reviews I watched that shows lots of sample footage, I've linked to a section that shows it in less-than-ideal lighting and its got lots of ISO noise + NR + macro-blocking:

I thought that the bitrate was low, but actually it's 120Mbps in 4K, so that's not too bad actually.

There are a few vloggers that I follow that have Canon G7X cameras and unfortunately I know that because the quality of their images is noticeably lower when they go handheld and it's super shaky or when they go indoors and it's grainy.  I'm not sure how much of that is simply the small sensor, or if it's older tech or what, but as long as it's priced appropriately then I think that's fine.

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Canon makes products for specific groups of people based on their needs.

Absolutely, especially compared to something like the Sony ZV1, which according to Sony "Watch the announcement of vlog camera ZV-1. A new compact camera from Sony designed for content creators and vloggers."

The review in Forbes put it quite plainly:

"That flaw? The 20-megapixel Zeiss lens has a 24-70mm lens, so the widest it can get is 24mm, which after accounting for the crop factor of it not being a full-frame camera, plus more cropping from EIS (electronic image stabilization), it's essentially a 30mm lens."

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2020/06/14/sony-zv-1-review-baffling-decision-almost-ruins-made-for-vlogging-premise/?sh=7a741bff5715

How hilarious - Sony made a vlogging camera with a 30mm FOV!

This one has a 19mm lens and the EIS didn't look like it was that much at all - Kai shows a side by side in his video.

[IronFilm]

Quote

1 x 1/8" / 3.5 mm TRS Stereo Microphone Input

Phew, I was worried they'd forget about audio. 

But no headphone out to check the audio??? 

[mercer]

At least it doesn't have vertical audio. 

[BTM_Pix]

7 hours ago, kye said:

the Osmo Pocket literally has an integrated gimbal, and is a 20mm lens which doesn't need any cropping to get perfect stabilisation.

The Osmo Pockets are great products for vlogging but don't seem very well represented.

The magnetic clip on anamorphic lenses and ND filters offer a lot of possibilities for more creative shooting and the stabilisation and tracking capabilities are far better than the resolution and time eating post production methods of other cameras.

They are also a bit better in terms of not attracting attention - at least the unwanted variety - as they are much smaller and people are usually more intrigued than defensive when they see one being used.

7 hours ago, kye said:

In terms of video quality, it seems pretty lacklustre unfortunately, unless it's given really good lighting and conditions.  Here's one of the reviews I watched that shows lots of sample footage

I watched this the other day as well as the one in a very similar vein made by his partner in crime and I've got to say it did neither them nor Canon any favours at all.

It just looked exactly like someone from Canon had invited them down to their office for a couple of hours to have a quick go with one that they had just got in and it was all very sloppy.

This one is a bit more comprehensive and considered in my opinion.

 

7 hours ago, kye said:

How hilarious - Sony made a vlogging camera with a 30mm FOV!

Sony are apparently announcing a new camera on 23rd May which most people seem to think will be the Mark ii version of the ZV-1.

It will be interesting to see whether the lens range on it will be the same or whether it starts wider.

 

[kye]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Phew, I was worried they'd forget about audio. 

But no headphone out to check the audio??? 

I'd say that's because vloggers don't want to vlog while wearing headphones, but.....