New Fuji X-S20 (with DCI & UHD 60p plus 6.2K/30P 4:2:2 10-bit internal)

[ac6000cw]

See https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-s20-initial-review and https://petapixel.com/2023/05/24/the-new-fujifilm-x-s20-camera-is-faster-and-more-powerful-for-1299/

From DPReview:

As I'm very interested in this (mostly because it has 4k60p in a relatively small & light body with IBIS) but never used Fuji before, which are the best Fuji lenses for video i.e. with smooth focus transitions and smooth exposure changes?

[BTM_Pix]

Just to add the stuff from my now cleared thread. 

• 26.1MP APS-C X-Trans BSI CMOS 4 Sensor
• 5-Axis In-Body Image Stabilization
• X-Processor 5 Image Processor
• 6.2K 3:2 Open Gate
• 4K60p
• H.265, ALL-Intra, 4:2:2, 10-bit internal
• External RAW to Atomos/Blackmagic
• Available end of June - $1299 Body Only / $1399 with 15-45mm kit lens

A very interesting sign of the times is that it has a dedicated control setting on the dial for Vlog mode...

[ac6000cw]

4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

A very interesting sign of the times is that it has a dedicated control setting on the dial for Vlog mode...

Yes, I thought that too...

The APS-C video sector is certainly getting very interesting & competitive, with the recent Canon RF-S launches and (I suspect) Sony perhaps soon refreshing the high-end of their APS-C hybrid line with the sensor and processing from the FX30 maybe?

[MrSMW]

If on the basis I could not afford to switch to a Nikon Z9 + Z8 pairing…which I cannot really justify, my ‘budget’ option would be an XH2 paired with an XH2s.

However, want an even smaller similar capability pairing, ie, one stills orientated and the other more video, but both hybrid, then the pairing of an XT5 with this new XS20 would be a great little set up, especially as the XS20 can take the add on cooling vent.

Lenses?

I’d have to go zoom for my needs and really only 2 contenders and I’d stick the Fuji 16-55 f2.8 on the XT5 and the Tamron 17-70 f2.8 on the XS20.

The Tamron has a longer reach, is slightly lighter, but is not as sharp as the Fuji which is why I’d pair them in this manner.

Real world 24-83mm FF equivalent stills and 27-105mm FF focal length video, both with no aperture changes.

F2.8 light gathering with an equivalent f4.2 DOF.

Would work for me.

The other thing about Fuji is the SOOC results and I’d shoot Colour Neg for stills and Eterna for video.

Personally though, I’d go for the XH2 and XH2s pairing and with battery grips just for the handling as I like the idea of dinky cameras, but for work purposes, nah, not very stable platforms or ergonomically good over long days.

[ac6000cw]

Popped into my local dealer (Wex), had a quick play with an X-S10 to remind myself of what it's like to hold etc. then pre-ordered an X-S20 - my first ever Fuji camera and the first time I've pre-ordered a camera...

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Lenses?

I’d have to go zoom for my needs and really only 2 contenders and I’d stick the Fuji 16-55 f2.8 on the XT5 and the Tamron 17-70 f2.8 on the XS20.

The Tamron has a longer reach, is slightly lighter, but is not as sharp as the Fuji which is why I’d pair them in this manner.

Real world 24-83mm FF equivalent stills and 27-105mm FF focal length video, both with no aperture changes.

F2.8 light gathering with an equivalent f4.2 DOF.

Thanks - deciding on lenses is going to be the next thing. I've ordered the camera with the 15-45mm PZ lens - was only £100 more as a kit - just so I've got something to test it with.

[MrSMW]

I had that little lens and it’s not bad for the money. I think it came as a kit or a freebie or something.

I could never get the power zoom to stop exactly where I wanted it though!

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I could never get the power zoom to stop exactly where I wanted it though!

I know what you mean - I've got two M4/3 PZ lenses that behave like that...

[BTM_Pix]

The TG-BT1 bluetooth shooting grip might help with the control of the zoom.

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Panasonic GH2, 2023 edition

Very nice.

[Chrille]

I am only finding contrary information on additional crop factors( some say there is a 1,18 crop in 6K, some don't etc...)  . Did anyone find any additional information?

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, Chrille said:

I am only finding contrary information on additional crop factors( some say there is a 1,18 crop in 6K, some don't etc...)  . Did anyone find any additional information?

From the Fuji website:

Quote

[6.2K(3:2)] 6240 x 4160　29.97p/25p/24p/23.98p　360Mbps/200Mbps/100Mbps/50Mbps

6240 x 4160 = 26Mp, which is the full sensor area and the same size as the largest still image - "[L]〈3:2〉6240 x 4160".

So I can't confirm it for sure, but it looks like 'no crop' to me.

AFAIK the 50/60p DCI and UHD modes are cropped - 1.18 I think, same as on the X-T4 (which has the same sensor).

[Chrille]

Yeah i guess i found the overview:

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-gb/products/cameras/x-s20/specifications/

Looking at the specifications there are two columns next to the different formats called  "Crop Magnification" with DIS ON and DIS OFF.

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, Chrille said:

Yeah i guess i found the overview:

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-gb/products/cameras/x-s20/specifications/

Looking at the specifications there are two columns next to the different formats called  "Crop Magnification" with DIS ON and DIS OFF.

Good find - I hadn't scrolled down that page far enough to see the main 'Movie Specification' table (see below). It's interesting that it offers DCI2K (2048 x 1080) as well as DCI4K. Also the 4k 50/60p crop is apparently lower with DIS ON than with DIS OFF (1.1x vs. 1.18x).

[ac6000cw]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:58 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Panasonic GH2, 2023 edition

Very nice.

We've certainly come a long way in performance terms in 13 years - 6.2K/30p (& 4K/60p) 4:2:2 10-bit internal recording, with IBIS & APS-C sensor, in a body as small as a GH2!

[Chrille]

36 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

Good find - I hadn't scrolled down that page far enough to see the main 'Movie Specification' table (see below). It's interesting that it offers DCI2K (2048 x 1080) as well as DCI4K. Also the 4k 50/60p crop is apparently lower with DIS ON than with DIS OFF (1.1x vs. 1.18x).

That's really interesting - i read that the HD on the XH2S was pretty bad though. Fingers crossed - looking forward to some tests!

 

[ac6000cw]

8 hours ago, Chrille said:

That's really interesting - i read that the HD on the XH2S was pretty bad though. Fingers crossed - looking forward to some tests!

Decide for yourself - from the Polish https://www.optyczne.pl/ 'film mode' reviews, a few FHD test chart videos:

This is their FHD test chart video for the X-H2S:

 (There are also some downloadable X-H2S FHD sample videos here - https://www.optyczne.pl/63.5-Inne_testy-Fujifilm_X-H2S_-_test_trybu_filmowego_Podsumowanie_i_filmy_przykładowe.html ).

For comparison, their FHD test chart video for the X-T4:

 

...and just to show how video down-scaling to FHD should be done, this is the test chart video for the GH6 (their comment was "As long as we do not exceed 100 fps in the mode using the entire width of the sensor, the image quality is simply great" - I have to agree!).

 

[dgvro]

22 hours ago, Chrille said:

That's really interesting - i read that the HD on the XH2S was pretty bad though. Fingers crossed - looking forward to some tests!

 

It was worse, indeed. From what I saw. And unless they've since fixed somehow with firmware (not that I heard).

Someone maybe said something about the worse 1080 (particularly slowmo) performance being inherent with the new sensor, I can't remember.

So this XS20 still having the XT4 sensor with more processing power, sounds like a winner.

If find used/open box/grey market ones below €1000 any time soon I'll be getting one to go with my XT4 I think.

The better AF and no recording time limit, pus maybe even better IBIS (maybe) would really be worth the upgrade from just another XT4.

(plus easier to select truly different Programmed Preset modes... HATE that on the XT4)

 

[SRV1981]

How will the image compare to the xV sensor in the xt5 for video? 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

As an X-S10 user, and since Fuji will never release my dream camera (an X-E4 with dual dials and more buttons, IBIS and 10-bit video, even with 30 min limit), this one looks like the one for an amateur like me.

In theory, solve all my biggest gripes with the X-S10:

- Battery life: with Boost mode enabled (the "full" boost mode, not the IBIS one), is the greatest battery eater camera that I had (never had a OG BMPCC). Other day, brought it to a birthday party to film my daugther, and the first battery was dead after around 100 frames and 10 minutes of 4k video. Is abysmal.
- Autofocus: Fuji still lags behind other brands, but the newest models looks better - and this one have revamped algos (which are now available to X-T5 and X-H2 as firmware updates); from the first impressions, looks like a lot better. I have troubles with X-S10 AF even with stills - and I hope that eye af in video with more than one person is frame becomes usable.
- IBIS: one more stop, which don't matter too much - for stills Fuji IBIS is good enough from a long time, but in video it keeps "fighting" with the beginning of a movement. Looks better now too - albeit still far from Olympus.

10-bit is very welcome, F-Log becomes usable now. 4k60 welcome too. Another great revamp is that the four C positions on mode dial now could store video and stills settings (in X-S10, only stills). 6,2k open gate 10-bit 4:2:2 is a surprise in a camera of this size, as the possibility of external raw recording. In fact, is really a baby X-H2S without a stacked sensor and shorter record times - already know people that were planning to buy a 2nd X-H2S and now will use X-S20 as B-cams.

The bad:
- No weather sealing;
- Since the body was slightly revamped for the bigger battery, and cabling for the fan and headphone jack, Fuji lost the opportunity make some more modifications: since there is no weather sealing, the front dial should be clickable. And the camera should have the front button of the X-H line to change focus modes (or other function). This would bring 2 more custom buttons without taking any other space.
- Would like a 3,6 mp EVF, but even the R7 have the same panel, is par for the course;
- STILL NO GENERAL OBJECT TRACKING in movie mode, Fuji? My god, even the Olympus, who had an atrocious one, now have it.

My decision will be determined by the final price here in Brazil. We have a 60% import tax for everything, and a lot of cameras are the double of the US price. Fujifilm here sometimes lauch with a "better" difference, when I got the X-S10, it was "only" 22% up to US price.
And...some reasoning. It solves a lot of my gripes, and is even overkill for an amateur like my me. In fact, with a revamped AF algorithm and a smoother IBIS, the X-S10 could be enough for me. The X-S20 could be my "final" camera (since it have all that I need and more), but with the added costs (camera, a new extra battery, new license for C1 or DxO, new UHS-II cards) will not be a cheap one.

About lenses - just got the Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, beauty little thing. Compared to the 18-55 f/2.8-4, is not so much sharper in stills (don't know if it is my copy), but liked it a lot for video - better AF, MUCH less noisy, and, surprisingly, IBIS does a better job the the "Dual IS" of the older one.

[MrSMW]

15 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

About lenses - just got the Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, beauty little thing. Compared to the 18-55 f/2.8-4, is not so much sharper in stills (don't know if it is my copy), but liked it a lot for video - better AF, MUCH less noisy, and, surprisingly, IBIS does a better job the the "Dual IS" of the older one.

It’s a great little lens.

I have just ‘retired’ mine from use on my S5ii due to a body and lens re-jig.

I’m still going to be using it, but shifting it over to my Leica TL2 which is my personal and back up (pro use) camera.

The only thing it lacks for Fuji use, is built in OIS compared with the 18-55, but counters with being constant f2.8 rather than f2.8-4 which I’m not a fan of, ie, variable apertures.