What would you give up?

[kye]

We all have features we'd like to see on the next round of cameras, even if that feature is "the same but cheaper", but what features do the more modern cameras have that you would give up?  Some might question why we'd want to give anything up, but in general terms, every feature costs money to manufacture or design or do R&D, and many features require extra battery capacity, make the camera larger, make it less reliable, etc.

This is likely to be controversial, so please remember that we all use our cameras differently!

I'll go first, to set the stage / start the fight:

• Resolution
  I don't need 8K, or even 6K.  I'd be happy with a 5K sensor because it allows downsampling to 1080p even with a 2x digital crop.  All-else-being-equal, a 5K sensor would have better battery life, better rolling shutter, and better low-light performance than an 8K one.  I'd also be happy to give up any output modes greater than 4K, or even 1080p.
   
• Dynamic range
  I don't need anything more than about 12 stops, in fact it creates issues in post when trying to "fit" the whole DR into a rec709 output file.  Also, the less DR the sensor has, the less stretched the codecs bit-depth is - 14 stops of DR requires a 12-bit log file to match the quality of fitting 12 stops of DR in a 10-bit log file.  This means that the 10-bit log profile on your 14 stop camera is only as good as a 12 stop camera was with a 8-bit log file, and I've had colour quantising issues with those in the past.
   
• External RAW
  An external recorder (plus the cables, extra batteries, extra chargers, etc) is too large and heavy for me to basically ever use.  If no consumer cameras offered external RAW then they'd be forced to get off their a$$es and improve the internal codecs, offering things like All-I in all resolutions/framerates, as well as paying attention to things like how to change WB in post (there is no reason why compressed codecs can't be as flexible in post as RAW - it's only because they implemented crap codecs/profiles) - the Prores from the OG BMPCC is night-and-day better than the 10-bit log from other cameras.   ....and show me a single consumer camera that supports a 12-bit compressed codec - I don't know of a single one, yet they're all falling over themselves to give external RAW at firehose bitrates.

What would you prefer you weren't paying for / carrying around?

[MrSMW]

Personally anything external as in I prefer (and only use) internal in order to keep my set up as small and light as possible.

Juggling multiple bodies, for me it needs to be thus.

[FHDcrew]

I would give up all three as long as DR remained in the 12-13 stop territory. 

[Benjamin Hilton]

I'd give up resolution, viewfinder, any type of raw, photo capabilities. In my book the perfect camera would 14+ stops of real dynamic range, solid 4k up to 120fps, good IBIS, autofocus, ND filters... The only things that hits really close to all of that is the Sony FX6, but it's a bit out of what I can afford. Thinking of picking up a used FS7 one of these days as the prices come down

[Snowfun]

As a BM pocket user I’m not sure I even have “features” let alone enough to give them up…

[Rinad Amir]

My a7s iii has all the bells and whistles, so i cannot imagine downgrade sacrifice one bit of it ! other than external modules like heavy ass ninja V that i have to carry around with me 😮‍💨 for manny reasons such as bright monitor & 12bit raw yada yada yada and so on 😅

[FHDcrew]

5 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

I would give up all three as long as DR remained in the 12-13 stop territory. 

To add to my post, external recording is the biggest thing I would give up. Being able to record 12-bit RAW internally would be idea. I wish camera manufacturers would add uncompressed CDNG recording to their flagships. Compressed RAW is such a mess…patents and external workarounds…and then one does not necessarily have freedom of choice when it comes to what NLE to edit the RAW footage in…unless one converts. 
 

Give us uncompressed RAW to the card. Or give us Prores 4444 12-bit. The codec everyone has forgotten about 😆 

[TomTheDP]

I have already given up RAW, battery life, size and resolution for dynamic range, color science, and fast readout (the Alexa Classic).

Dynamic range and color science are top priority for me and then sensor readout speed. After that battery life, then weight and then resolution.

[Rinad Amir]

20 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

To add to my post, external recording is the biggest thing I would give up. Being able to record 12-bit RAW internally would be idea. I wish camera manufacturers would add uncompressed CDNG recording to their flagships. Compressed RAW is such a mess…patents and external workarounds…and then one does not necessarily have freedom of choice when it comes to what NLE to edit the RAW footage in…unless one converts. 
 

Give us uncompressed RAW to the card. Or give us Prores 4444 12-bit. The codec everyone has forgotten about 😆 

Id pay good money for that alone imagine going light without cage! and extra cables dangling around.

[zerocool22]

19 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I have already given up RAW, battery life, size and resolution for dynamic range, color science, and fast readout (the Alexa Classic).

Dynamic range and color science are top priority for me and then sensor readout speed. After that battery life, then weight and then resolution.

Would love an alexa tiny with the old sensor ar an affordable price.

[ntblowz]

I can definitely give up IBIS for smaller/lighter setup.

- The external raw recording, never used Atomos Ninja V for raw encoding, only used them for monitor lol, even though the c70 raw is quite small but only use it once and rest still on mp4.

[TomTheDP]

On 6/10/2023 at 9:45 AM, zerocool22 said:

Would love an alexa tiny with the old sensor ar an affordable price.

Same, the Classic sensor in a komodo sized package would be a blessing. They were able to drastically reduce the size while increasing the size of the sensor and frame rates with the mini in 2015. I would think 8 years later they could probably further reduce the size and power draw especially using the Classic sensor. Definitely not going to happen as ARRI only serves the biggest industry clients who it wouldn't appeal to.

[barefoot_dp]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:53 PM, ntblowz said:

I can definitely give up IBIS for smaller/lighter setup.

- The external raw recording, never used Atomos Ninja V for raw encoding, only used them for monitor lol, even though the c70 raw is quite small but only use it once and rest still on mp4.

I can't imagine IBIS would make a camera much larger or heavier. Plus if smaller and lighter is the goal, IBIS will be more of a requirement as a smaller camera tends to suffer more from micro-jitters.

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, barefoot_dp said:

I can't imagine IBIS would make a camera much larger or heavier. Plus if smaller and lighter is the goal, IBIS will be more of a requirement as a smaller camera tends to suffer more from micro-jitters.

I'd imagine you could shave off a decent amount of weight. Camera's are already so small though so we are talking pretty small amounts in general.

 

[Rinad Amir]

ibis off for love of god we dont need it.

Give us internal NDs

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, Rinad Amir said:

ibis off for love of god we dont need it.

Give us internal NDs

Definitely the case for me mostly. If you do a lot of run and gun shooting on longer lenses though it can be a life saver.

I wish Sony's electronic ND was in every camera. I value that way more than RED's compressed RAW.

[kye]

3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Definitely the case for me mostly. If you do a lot of run and gun shooting on longer lenses though it can be a life saver.

I wish Sony's electronic ND was in every camera. I value that way more than RED's compressed RAW.

I find IBIS to be critical to my workflow personally, as I shoot exclusively handheld and do so while walking etc, but I definitely understand that I'm in the minority.

But yeah, having that eND would be spectacular - set to auto-ISO / auto-eND / 180 shutter / desired aperture for background defocus and you're good to go!

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, Rinad Amir said:

ibis off for love of god we dont need it.

Give us internal NDs

You might not have any need for it so the term is ‘I’ not ‘we’ 😜

I’m really not sure why we don’t have more cameras with internal ND but read it is possibly an IBIS clash ‘thing’?

I would like both personally but horses for courses and all that…

[TomTheDP]

9 hours ago, kye said:

I find IBIS to be critical to my workflow personally, as I shoot exclusively handheld and do so while walking etc, but I definitely understand that I'm in the minority.

But yeah, having that eND would be spectacular - set to auto-ISO / auto-eND / 180 shutter / desired aperture for background defocus and you're good to go!

 

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

You might not have any need for it so the term is ‘I’ not ‘we’ 😜

I’m really not sure why we don’t have more cameras with internal ND but read it is possibly an IBIS clash ‘thing’?

I would like both personally but horses for courses and all that…

I feel it is useful for a ton of people. I would assume run and gun/vlog/youtube style shooting is what the majority of camera users are doing these days. I feel Industry industry shoots are not the majority of what cameras are being used for. A super formal shoot is probably using a cinema camera although hybrids are sometimes used.

[Benjamin Hilton]

IBIS is way too useful of a tool to give up. It's not a replacement for anything, all old school tools still have their place, it's just another really useful tool at times. For doc work I can't tell you how many times I would have killed to have some form of IBIS on a shot and didn't have it back in the day. I do steadicam and tripod work a lot, but I can't tell you how amazing it has been to be able to grab a shot at 200mm with the camera balanced on my knee or pressed up against a wall and it actually look rock solid with IBIS.