NEW MICRO 4/3 CINE PRIMES

[Tim Naylor]

I don't own a GH4 and one of the reasons was the lens situation. I felt affordable cine style lenses were few and far between. Then I came across this. These lenses seem to check all the right boxes (standard fronts, small, .08 gears, fast stop, etc, 3100 for a set of five, etc). The only issue I can see for my style of shooting is that the 35mm and 50mm lenses have their front element seriously recessed. This makes flaring the lens difficult to the point of having to have your source extremely close to the edge of frame or in the shot. It's the reason, Schneiders are dead to me and Zeiss / Cookes are great in that regard.

 

Of course, cosmetics aside, the proof will be in the performance which is why I can't see myself buying a set unless I could test it. My non-cine Nikon AIS set blow away my Rokinon Cine Lenses even though they don't look like movie lenses. 

 

Love to  know if anyone has an interesting take on this or inside info.

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/665053329/veydra-m4-3-cinema-lenses-for-gh4-and-bmpcc

[andy lee]

we already have a post on these in the lens section of the forum -

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[Tim Naylor]

Cool. How do I delete this post. Can't seem to find it

[Tim Naylor]

Andy, while I respect Matthew Duclos' tech work and opinions, sometimes he gets a bit too tech in his assessment of what makes good glass. He gave the new Schneider Xenons a thumbs up and to be honest, I think they're somewhat dull and soulless. I did an A, B and C test between Xenons, Zeiss Mk3's and Cooke S4's. The Zeiss and Cooke wiped the floor with them in every respect, especially  in terms of color / flesh tone rendition. The flaring on Xenons was pretty clinical. Also, certain lenses were next to impossible to flare due to recessed front elements. What I see in his assessment of the Veydra's are just chart shooting and comparison charts. No faces, bokeh, flare, and all that good stuff that makes up the soul of a lens.  Hopefully, I can get my hands on the Veydra's soon and find out if they're the real deal. 

[andy lee]

lets see what the glass is like - their press release says its based on existing c mount designs!!

hopefully not Chinese ones!

 

 

I have a whole bunch of Japanse Fujinon c mounts they are superb the glass is unreal , the 25mm f1.4 and 35mm f1.7 are great lenses , Zeiss Trevidon equivilants

can these new guys make glass as good as Zeiss / Fujinon ? thats the question

[Tim Naylor]

They're is some great C mount glass out there. From the markings it looks like the focus draw is about 180 degrees. 

[richg101]

I'm always a bit apprehensive of a marketing campaign which uses lines like ' real cinema glass, don't accept stills lenses in cine clothing' and similar.  I and most of us know there is no magical hocus pocus that makes cinema lenses more cinematic other than the fact that they tend to be designed to limit breathing during focusing.  Unfortunately if a lens doesnt breathe, it usually also lacks that character that takes us back to the golden days of hollywood blockbusters.  As mister Hurlbut talks about when comparing lenses in his recent video about how non three dimensional modern glass is - attempts to reduce breathing and distortion also cut down on the physical 'look'.  

 

This said, if they are based on high quality c-mount lenses this is actually a good thing and might introduce some much needed character into a world of over clinical native m4/3 mount glass.  Since c-mounts tend to be designed to deliver high levels of tightly packed resolution onto a very small imaging area they often have been over engineered to cover a much greater area in order so that the best portion of the lens is used for the sensor.  When used on a bigger sensor than they are intended you start to see the same magic as you do from fast full frame glass used on full frame sensors.  Part of the magic of a fast 50mm on full frame is that it is being pushed to it's absolute limits.  The magic (if there is any) from these new lenses will originate from the same theory of lenses being pushed close to their limits.  They'd better select historic coating processes though!  new coatings - as are commonly found on industrial c-mounts are a real nightmare for skintones!!!!! 

[Cinegain]

Testy test..

 

Also..

Veydra Mini Prime 16mm Lens Flare Test: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z60qhr4ggahfvsy/1_2014-11-16_2006_C0000.zip?dl=0

Veydra Mini Prime 16mm Street Scene:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kn8rnru1t9b43qm/1_2014-11-16_2206_C0022.zip?dl=0

[Tim Naylor]

Thanks for that post. Looks promising. 300 degrees rotation is nice too. These lenses should be a hit with 3 axis gimbals.

[andy lee]

one thing that does trouble me is micro 4/3 mounts flexing when using a follow focus , the only micro 4/3 camera with a good solid metal mount Ive used sucessfully with follow focus is the GX7 , Ive had flexing on gh2, g6 gh3

The  micro 4/3 mount is just very small in diameter compared to other mounts and the up/ down forces the follow focus applies to the lens causies this undesirable flexing on such a small mount.

 

I now dont use follow focus at all on any of my micro 4/3 cameras for that reason.

 

So nice cinema style lenses are a cool idea but in practice I doubt I will be using them with a follow focus.

[Cinegain]

one thing that does trouble me is micro 4/3 mounts flexing when using a follow focus , the only micro 4/3 camera with a good solid metal mount Ive used sucessfully with follow focus is the GX7 , Ive had flexing on gh2, g6 gh3

The  micro 4/3 mount is just very small in diameter compared to other mounts and the up/ down forces the follow focus applies to the lens causies this undesirable flexing on such a small mount.

 

I now dont use follow focus at all on any of my micro 4/3 cameras for that reason.

 

So nice cinema style lenses are a cool idea but in practice I doubt I will be using them with a follow focus.

I see that's being addressed!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/665053329/veydra-m4-3-cinema-lenses-for-gh4-and-bmpcc/posts/1321995

There has been some significant discussion online about the inherent loose nature of the Micro4/3 mount.  This is not so much as design flaw on the part of camera manufacturers as it is matter of original intention for the mount.  PL mounts were made for "positive lock" on cinema cameras for heavy cinema lenses.  Micro4/3 mount was meant for very small lightweight still photo lenses and therefore, when we put a heavier lens like the Veydra Mini Prime on it, the lens will move a bit.

We have addressed the issue by making a lens support which we will put on our website soon [..] This will resolve the twisting of the mount and resulting image shift.  When we originally designed the Veydra Mini Primes, we considered adding a built in lens support but it would have increased the size of the lens and complexity of manufacture so we decided to wait and see if a support would be required.  Again, we apologize for the delay in this support as we expected to have it completed by now however it proved to be its own design challenge which we have resolved.  We will ship the lens support for interface with 15mm LWS Rod systems in October.

[..] The lens support will be a molded piece which will clamp onto the middle of the lens barrel. We believe it will cause minimal interference with Follow Focus and other accessories.

Although the biggest update might just be:

We often get emails asking for adaptability of the Veydra Mini Primes to other cameras than M4/3.  The physical design of the Mini Primes is too small and the flange depth is too shallow (distance of the back of the lens to the sensor) to accommodate adaptation to Canon EF or PL mount.  However, we can offer other shallow flange depth mounts like Sony E and C Mount.  Therefore we will offer a Sony E mount for the Veydra 25mm, 35mm, 50mm and soon to be 85mm lenses in APS-C mode coverage on all Sony NEX or E mount cameras including the Sony A7s, A7RII, A6000, FS-700, and FS-7.

We will also offer a C Mount for direct mounting on Super16 film cameras and Digital Bolex cameras with no need for adapters.  The C Mount will work on all current Veydra Mini Prime lenses except the 50mm which will require it's own dedicated C Mount.

[..]  It will be a user-changeable option via 4 screws. Any issues with back focus will be addressed easily by sliding the focus scale around to the proper infinity mark. We will have a video soon showing how it will work.

- Upd. VIDEO: