Does Cinema EOS mark the end of high spec Canon DSLR video?

[macka]

Hey Andrew - I just want to comment as you've made such an issue out of JVC beating canon in the enthusiast space in your article. JVC have a pretty good pro track record.  I used JVC professional gear a lot (d9/digitalS) back in the early days of digital broadcast cameras - and their proHD cameras  when they launched where also pretty amazingly specced, especially their collaboration with Fuji.  

 

Their marketing, range and end-to end support has not been as up to scratch in recent years but they do have a history of making some pretty amazing and professional tools and have been playing in the cinematography space far longer than Canon..  I think it's great they're having another go at the prosumer space... the more competition the better:)

[zenpmd]

St its heart, a DSLR is never intended to be only a video camera. When you consider this, the 5dmk3 is still the best hybrid camera yo can buy. The A7s AF is a long way away from Canon. And EVF lag, and EVF sensor slow you down if you are working fast (for stills). And for stills of course we have no fast zooms on the Sony, etc and still limited primes. I believe the future looks bright for Sony, but Canon and Nikon still have plenty of time.

 

And I at least like the fact that Canon have sensible stratification of products, where Nikon make odd releases, like the very good but ergonomically consumery d750.

 

The ONLY weakness of the Canon is the sensor. Everything else is perfect. THe sensor is important, yes, but its also the easiest thing to change. Its harder to have the best selection of lenses in the world or the most mature ergos and AF.

 

They will never cripple video on the mk4. Sure, it may not be as good as some other company aiming squarely at the video market, but the 5d line will always be a hybrid, its important to their brand. I am positive it will be "good enough". I think Canon are just biding their time to get a jump in sensor tech

[zenpmd]

This site, like most on the internet now, is driven by GAS and that us why its full of hyperbole. I appreciate what Andrew does and I've learnt  a lot, but its interesting when you read older materials how crazy it all starts to sound. Just a short while ago I was told 5d RAW is the best thing since sliced bread. Now the workflow is old and Canon suck...

[someguy]

Another Canon bashing article, how exciting.

[dafreaking]

Another Canon bashing article, how exciting.

 

Don't say that. Commenting on a negative article means you are negative here. Seriously though. The most negative camera blogger I've come across. If it weren't for guys like andy lee and others all one would do here would bitch and moan.

 

For the record I am NOT a Canon fanboy though I still own a Trex. 

[douglaurent]

Doug Laurent, do yourself a couple of favors;

1. Try to realize that Canon is not God, and that defending a camera that costs almost 10x a camera like the GH4 is plain silly.

 

people don't read and don't seem to get it.  the only thing i'm saying it is absurd that this blog claims all the new cheap cameras are way better in all aspects than the 1DC. in fact in this moment, after nearly 2 (!) years, theres no extreme lowlight 4k camera alternative on the market!  it's like as if someone urgently wants a ferrari and loves the ferrari brand, but as the car is too expensive, he says all volkswagen cars are much better anyway.  nobody at ferrari would listen to a person with such a statement.

[douglaurent]

Also, I've got a PL adapter for my A7s so I can put Master Primes on it if I wanted! I'd take an A7s with Master Primes over a 1Dc with Canon still glass any/every day of the week.

 

--- by the way, how do you put lenses on a full frame camera that dont cover full frame?  i know my otus 55 and 85 do fit on the 1DC and work as master primes, which zeiss secretly admits.

[douglaurent]

Why should we not talk about how they're falling behind the competition - just because they're the almighty Canon and we should trust what they say?

 

--- i like this blog BECAUSE it confronts canon with all their missing features in a detailed way and puts pressure on them so they give us something better soon.  but the arguments should stay realistic.

And why should we start with hate blog posts about Apple? Because you don't own any Apple products?

 

--- i own and did own many apple products.  transfering files to and from an iphone/ipad is a pure nightmare and takes much longer than on android.  all apple users admit that.  where is the bashing there?  where is the bashing about their overpriced products and extreme profit margins, coming through extreme tax loopholes and underpaid factory work in asia?  quite often their products are behind competitors for 6-12 months, so why no canon style bashing there?    probably because people never bash stuff they own.

[Guest 560a4aedcb80685284629074497fdc75]

Did Nikon ever figure out how to let people change the aperture in live-view on what, over half their cameras?

 

A mature, intelligent and constructive response. Well done.

[Oliver Daniel]

Wow, this topic is on fire!

I still shoot most of my stuff on my GH3. I get paid for it. Nobody complains. So the fact Canon have been reserved in their product features doesn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't affect me at all.

Yesterday I shot on the FS700. The fact any Canon camera can't do what this camera can do didn't change anything. I got my shots. Client was very happy.

I think everyone needs to chill out. The options available now are ridiculous. Who cares what brand you use? Pick your camera, shoot and delight. :)

[AnthonyBert]

Andrew you said, and I quote "At no time have I been asked for my feedback on DSLR video despite EOSHD being one of the biggest resources for DSLR video on the internet. Sony and Panasonic talk to me"

 

That should tell you something!  Maybe a bit less about canon's product lack of features and a bit more on the great thing that have and still being achieved with their tools would go a long way.. Just a thought.

 

Trust me they are not lagging behind... With all those low light and 10bits and raw etc... Could you point me to a single video that is telling a story in a better way because of these features? 

[Vesku]

I think that Canon has a good reputation of quality. Their products works, image quality may not be the best but it is also important that the camera is reliable. I have had lots of quality issues with Panasonic. Video quality is very good but cameras and lenses are not working good, there are too much faults and issues and break downs.

[Astro]

 

 

--- i own and did own many apple products.  transfering files to and from an iphone/ipad is a pure nightmare and takes much longer than on android.  all apple users admit that.  where is the bashing there?  where is the bashing about their overpriced products and extreme profit margins, coming through extreme tax loopholes and underpaid factory work in asia?  quite often their products are behind competitors for 6-12 months, so why no canon style bashing there?    probably because people never bash stuff they own.

 

 

I have to agree 100% with this I have the latest iPad Air and my Wife has the New Galaxy Tablet.

I really like the iPad Air...but its connectivity sucks totally, You cant access it unless the frikkin apps have a sharing cache, you cant see that without iTunes etc installed on a PC... then it wants to back it up (yes I knowyou can disable that), then it wants to go to the iTunes store etc...yawn...Jeeez their whole approach makes me hopping mad.

I hate to start the Apple/ PC/Android argument...and I know there are pluses to Apples inbred, new age, self contained approach, but I strongly feel they will eventually be hammered by Google/Android etc.. simply because they are not open ended enough, already their phone sales are lower than Android based phones, Samsung is outdoing them there, Tablets will follow, my wifes Galaxy is better than my iPad Air in many ways....not all, but many.

I previously owned a G5 a while back cause I have been a long time Logic User before it went completely Mac...when Emagic actually owned the DAW,

I eventually ditched Logic and the G5 and went back to the PC, the whole Apple approach is like a bloody trendy religion or something...line up at the Apple store and so on, the new power mac will be out soon etc.......soon you will have to pay your respects to Steve Jobs first ha ha ha!!

 

Yep PC's can be a nightmare of hardware compatibility, but they have it all over Apple when it comes to connectivity and customizing computers...etc...adding better video cards, more ram, different drive setups etc...

I'm getting worked up here, if Canon are bad then Apple are probably worse... in a different way.

LOL!! 

[Astro]

I think that Canon has a good reputation of quality. Their products works, image quality may not be the best but it is also important that the camera is reliable. I have had lots of quality issues with Panasonic. Video quality is very good but cameras and lenses are not working good, there are too much faults and issues and break downs.

I have owned the GH2 for several years, now the GH4...I have had no issues at all...so far!!

[visionrouge]

I love my canon camera!

 

A L set of lens, a 5D mark 3 with a grip to hold it firmly on my hands. What beat that? According to many users, I could do better with another camera + a lens adapter + an external screen or... But wait, in real life work, you don't want to mess up with too many weak point under the rain or on a ladder.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but only few camera can do that. If I put the lens availability and quality in the balance, I will say, only Canon can offer such versality.

 

On the video world, which camera is the smallest, the best to handle and give you an amazing picture quality? Canon again with the C300 or C100.

All the other competitor will forced you to add extra accessories or lack one of the feature (XLR, ND Filter, Cheap card, Cheap Battery, Small factor size, Pro Codec, Lens range, viewfinder, tiltable scree)

Yes, a Sony A7 will do better in low light, but what about battery life is a real shooting?

A GH4 can do 4K, but what about XLR input or ND?

 

Each time I try to find a competitor to the C series, I will have to give up on one feature.

 

Sure, people complaining that Canon could have gone another way, but to me, they are super smart and deliver product for a specific market which work right out of the box without compromises. A picture camera cannot be the same than a video camera. They design 2 different bodies and they have a winning form factor in each market. Congratulation.

 

I'm looking at the sony FS7 as a strong competitor, but again, they make a lager body, heavier, with expensive memory card and only few lens available. Wait just 6 months and canon will have a C300 mark2 with 4K. Yes, they are just 6 months behind on this one.

 

The recent 7D2 is a winner in his category. Who can propose a Super35 picture camera as strong and sensitive as this one, with such lens catalog? no other cameras, period (or they will need adapter, poor battery life or not weather sealed, will be smaller..)

 

Why complaining that a 7D should have better video? It lacks ND filter and XLR input anyway. Wake up, it's a picture camera, and for this, it's just great! 

 

Canon pro line product are strong, reliable, available, solid, easy to use, each button is just at the right place and will last for a while. Whatever are you shooting condition, the Canon gear will follow you and support you without the need of extra. For sure, if you are looking for a camera to tweak in order to do video when it has been designed for picture, don't go for Canon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zenpmd]

Another thing to pick up on, which is terrible hyperbole.

"The 7D Mark II is not the best APS-C with unheard of specs at all. It's an old 70D in an old 5D Mark III body slightly rejigged and the AF updated."

 

The 7dmk2 has the best AF of any camera except the 1dx and d4s. For wildlife and sport, DR is not important. Anyone who cares about action is RAVING about that camera. Only the gimps on the internet have a problem with it.

 

I just think people need to look at RESULTS rather than specs. And ive seen some incredible photos of wildlife with even the old 7d. I would rather shoot Canon than be a Nikon shooter still without a d300s replacement for years and years and years. And Canon have now beautifully made their pro-ish cameras all have the same controls, which is great

[Stab]

You guys can discuss till you're 70 but you forget 1 vital point.

Most people don't spend days and days on the internet and websites like EosHD to compare specs. They go crazy when even thinking about it.

 

They go to the nearest camera shop, ask for advice and try something out. Of course the seller says 'here is the Canon 7D, a great camera which we sell all the time'. The customer holds it (feels great!), trusts the brand and the seller, and walks out with the camera. Maybe he looks online for the best possible deal and have it send to him, but he's buying a 7D nonetheless.

 

And that is why Canon is still market leader, and will be for a while. Why do big film studios sometimes use a 5D or a 7D, but never a Panasonic? Because they feel like a toy, have no reputation, different color science, etc.

 

Canon is still the brand to get for everone who is not a nerd like us and spends much of their time on comparing camera's and specs. And the same goes for computers, TV's, car's, etc. People just want to buy something which feels good in the hand, looks good, has a good reputation and is recommended by others / sellers.

And that is why people still buy overpriced iMacs, 5D's, Samsung TV's with digital sharpening and 200 hz modes, etc.

 

But I will say once more, THAT IS PERFECT FOR US. Stop spreading the word! I tell you, listen to me, this is important!

 

We make money from shooting video's... Most of us, like me, coulnd't have started this business 10 years ago because of the crappy quality of affordable camera's and computers. Now, everyone with 2000 dollars / euro's to spare can buy a GH4 + lens, download Premiere from torrents, make a wordpress website and call himself 'film producer'. Everyday more and more 'competitors' join our market.

 

And we all know that in 5-10 years there will be self composing, 10 bit 8K camera's with 20 stops DR that will focus themselves for 800 euro's in Wallmart... You know what this means for us 'professionals'? It means that you will have 10x more competitors than you have now.

Throw some 'self editing software' in the mix and there you go, almost everyone becomes a video maker.

 

Of course I am exaggerating, but I really believe we should all shut the fuck up and keep our secrets. I have learned a lot from the online community and I have given lots of knowledge back in the past, but I am not doing it anymore.

I want my clients to look at my footage and say 'wow that looks better than the rest' and book me. And of course composition and editing have to do with it, but the camera plays a big part in it as well.

 

So if you want to still make money in the (near) future, stop spreading the word about Sony and Panasonic. Stop talking about Filmconvert and explain everything to people. Stop making tutorials for everyone to see.

Do you want a future where everyone makes as good video' as you do?

 

We are making it too easy for beginners like this. We are literally raising competitors which will hunt us in the future.

 

I have stopped and I ask you to do the same.

 

Praise Canon! Praise pricey software. Never give any tips and tricks for free. That is how you get rich.

[Stab]

I feel like my post deserves it's own topic / discussion. Have opened it. Hope Andrew agrees.

[hmcindie]

Haven't I read this same thing about 1001x from EOSHD now? Everything on twitter from Andrew is pretty much the same too. Canon this, Canon that blaa blaa.

 

I find it odd that EOSHD is constantly cherry picking stuff. Where was the furor over the shitty image quality of the FS100? (Good specs, shitty highlights, horrible compression) Where was the furor about GH3 being worse than GH2 for video? Not to mention the hyperbole. Just by glancing previous articles, they all seem very ridiculous. HUGE DIFFERENCE IN a6000!" (quality was the same as before). "Canon needs to get 10-bit or it's game over!" Then Sony releases 8-bit A7s and it's like: "8-bits is enough!"

 

When Sony updates camera to "clean HDMI" EOSHD is like : "Sony updates camera wow!" When Canon does the same it's : "Canon is late to the game, no difference, who cares!"

 

It seems very personal somehow. Maybe change the name of the site? I know hyperbole gets clicks but it still seems overly.

 

So what? Now the Samsung is the camera to get? Do you get like paid everytime you plug something (there should be a disclaimer, you did mention that you talk to the teams of Panasonic and Samsung)?

[hmcindie]

Sony A7S with a monitor on top kills the 1D C stone dead for image quality.

1D C is not full frame 4K. The active imaging area is barely any larger than Super 35mm in 4K mode, thus NX1 and GH4 with Speed Booster give a similar rendering of Canon full frame lenses

The codec is from another time, when dinosaurs ruled the earth. 4K MJPEG takes up 6 times the space on my drive that H.265 4K does.

Monitoring on the 1D C bare bones is a nightmare. No EVF, no peaking, in fact virtually nothing to help you focus

The GH4 and NX1 can be used bare bones without a monitor, far more pleasing to shoot with

The 1D C is $12,000... how many times do I have to mention ENTHUSIAST MARKET for you to get the point of the article?

The 1D C's codec has banding issues at low ISOs

The 1D C's sensor is rated barely 12 stops, the GH4 for 13 stops and the A7S for 14. So in that sense the raw stills aren't the best either

 

Like I said... Sony A7S with Shogun on top or 1D C with monitor on top just so you can focus... It's a no brainer. Image, usability, size, portability... everything is better on the Sony.

 

I shot a video with a loaned 1DC and I still haven't shot anything better on the A7s. A7s is fidgety.

 

A7s does not have H265 (see how you constantly compare cameras like this? Mixing and matching to best fit? Like then you compare it to GH4 stills? Like seriously? GH4 is way worse in video than 1DC and you know it)

 

Codec on the 1DC is still higher quality than the A7s internal codec. It's way less efficient but it's also way better looking. So you give Samsung and Sony a pass for being 8-bits but go nuts when Canon is 8-bits? How does that work?

 

Yes, the price is ridiculous but let's call a horse a horse, not fake more negatives.

 

You remind me of the tech writer Charlie Demerjian who hates Nvidia and basically every article he makes about GPU manufacturers always disses Nvidia.