kye Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, TomTheDP said: I think maybe they work better for weddings where you are sniping shots. I have to do focus pulls on dollys and such for take after take so more precision is required maybe. It's definitely very different shooting conditions... I laughed so hard years ago when I saw the review of the P4K by CVP (IIRC) and the guy took it out and took some random shots in public including some shots of his companion while riding on the train. His comment was that he had to work "incredibly fast"... HAHAHAHAHA. It was a person sitting motionless for several minutes!! I can go from zero to rolling in something like 5 seconds, and there are situations where I'll still miss a quarter of the shots I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 11, 2023 Author Share Posted July 11, 2023 Well the lens has arrived already, but no test this week or shoot this weekend as the CY to EF adapter has been delayed until Saturday 😏 I have the Fotodiox built in VND EF-L already but this little project will have to wait until next week now… The lens looks good for an old-timer. Excellent condition, relatively small and chunky and about the same size as the Sigma 28-70 which is good as that is what it’s going to be mainly paired with: S1H + Sigma 28-70 f2.8 stills, option Lumix 70-200 f4 S5ii + CZ 40+80 f3.5 video 6k 30p MF S5ii + Sigma 18-50 (27-75) f2.8 video 4k 60p AF, option Sigma 16-28 (24-42) If all goes to plan… kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 Well, the last piece of the puzzle turned up today and so I gave it a whirl. The CY-EF adapter is waaaaay too loose so I gave it a few dabs of the old superglue and sorted that. No resale of that lens now unless someone wants it in EF mount 🤪 I had already tested the image quality and the IBIS at both 40 and 80 mil and it works fine. IQ very nice on the single outdoor test I gave it coupled with baked in Phantom LUT. It gets a pass for at least this weekends 1.5 day wedding as my main filming camera. The other S5ii as above will be doing longer static and AF duty. The S1H exclusively stills. Should be good…or maybe I will come back cursing the thing Monday… 2 ‘issues’, one of which I believe I can sort: 1: Takes an age to start up now as in black screen for like 5-10 seconds. Anyone know if there is a way round this? 2: It then asks if you want the set focal length. I managed to delete that question previously, though that may have been with the S1H, but it anyone knows the answer to that one… kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 13 hours ago, MrSMW said: No resale of that lens now unless someone wants it in EF mount 🤪 I see metalworkers releasing things like Loctite by just applying heat. They typically do it with a blowtorch, which obviously I wouldn't recommend, but it might be a simple case of applying a soldering iron for a bit perhaps? It depends on how much superglue you used. "A few dabs" isn't very scientific a measurement!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 OK, quite a few dabs… I made the over-enthusiastic approach of fixing the adapter wobble before investigating the slow start up issue. It’s actually more like 10-12 seconds which is far too long for my needs and I can’t find any solution to it or the continual request each time if I am happy with the IBIS setting. I could switch the IBIS off and assign it to a function button but then that is another step to contend with. It’s game over before I ever got going with it. Shame because the combo of baked in Phantom LUT, 6k 30p 3:2 and how that lens renders wide open at f3.5 is…was, pretty much bang on. The potential or actual aesthetic output however cannot compromise my real world wedding day workflow and sadly it does. It’s a bit weird though that I can’t find any reference to the slow start up time in any written or watched L Mount camera topic. I am sure there is a way to kill that IBIS question on start up though as I am 99% sure I found away when I used a Meike cine lens for a couple of jobs. But for now and this wedding, until I can…or even if I can, answer these 2 issues, it’s back my previous method of working. Maybe I should investigate the DZO 35-80mm T2.9 because although it’s a bit of a lump…and not cheap, it is available in L Mount…I think, so I would not have the issues I am currently having. Only one other thing I can think of is updating The Fotodiox adapter to see if that makes any difference but something, somewhere is causing this ridiculously long start up time. But I’m out of time for this next job 😏 kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 13, 2023 Super Members Share Posted July 13, 2023 21 hours ago, MrSMW said: 1: Takes an age to start up now as in black screen for like 5-10 seconds. Anyone know if there is a way round this? If you are stacking it with the Fotodiox, try putting some electrical tape over the contacts on the Fotodiox. In my experience, the delay you are seeing is the camera trying to handshake (multiple times) with the adapter to get lens information to automatically set the IBIS focal length. Taping over the contacts will stop the attempts and you should get straight to the set focal length process. If that works, stacking a dumb EF to L mount adapter onto the CY to EF will provide a permanent solution absent the variable ND that the Fotodiox was providing. If you don't need to have an electronically controlled EF lens on the same day (or even at all) then the tape solution will suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: If you are stacking it with the Fotodiox, try putting some electrical tape over the contacts on the Fotodiox. I already tried just the Fotodiox with the Meike cine lens and it was slooooow. I would not have put up with that previously so know it was not a problem before…but that was with the S1H. The S1H I have moved over to the primarily (but still hybrid during ceremony & speeches) stills role because despite what it’s marketed as, it’s just the better stills camera over the S5ii. IMO. Juggle juggle juggle. That’s how it is for me and my specific needs… The options are: A. Carry on with the combo I have been using last few weeks, but it’s one lens away from being ideal. The ‘one lens away’ is just the single 28-70 when I really need a pair. Might just have to bite the bullet and buy one, but would prefer to wait if poss and see if Sigma pop out the supposed 70-180 long overdue… B. Find a way around being able to use this vintage lens because other than the total dealbreakers 🤪 it is a really good option. On paper… C. Take a closer look at that DZO 35-80 which is now available with drop in filter system… D. Chuck it all in and move to Asteroid City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 Ello Ello... .EF-L firmware update New firmware to fix issues with S5 MkII. Black screen issue. Both regular fusion and ND throttle fusion. If I could only get my PC to actually recognise the adapter when it's connect via USB... Doesn't auto pick it up and tried 2x ports and 2x cables and nada. Anyone know where on PC you need to go to find something like this manually? It might be the fix to this situation... Sounds like it might be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 13, 2023 Super Members Share Posted July 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, MrSMW said: I already tried just the Fotodiox with the Meike cine lens and it was slooooow. There will still be negotiation between the camera and the adapter if the pins of the adapter are exposed to the camera mount that can be causing it. I have two Fotodiox EF to M42 adapters that I've just tried on my S5ii with the MC21. The EF to M42 adapter that has contacts on it does exactly as you describe with the really slow startup and the one without is an instant startup straight to the IBIS selection screen. Fotodiox has some dire warnings about using their L mount adapters with Leica bodies (the MC21 has this problem to with my SL and T and has to have the pins taped over) so I'm not sure they are fully compliant with the L mount protocol which may be complicated further with later cameras and any changes they have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 13, 2023 Super Members Share Posted July 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, MrSMW said: .EF-L firmware update New firmware to fix issues with S5 MkII. Black screen issue. Both regular fusion and ND throttle fusion. Oh 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Oh 🙂 Exactamundo! Their help desk has not been overly helpful so far. I described the issue in trying to update the adapter using both my Mac and PC and 2 different cables and 2 different ports and the only response I received was, quote: “Sorry but our Software update is not compatible with Mac OS will only run on Windows OS”. OK, very factual and narrows down my choice of devices from 2 to 1 but otherwise provides zero useful information 😏 I have put in a request for something slightly more helpful. At least they didn’t take long to respond unlike DXO who can take months. So long you bought other software and forgot they existed. My first rule of business is don’t be shit. My second rule of business is don’t be a shit. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 Response: here’s a link how to download the firmware update. 🤪 My third rule of business is employ at least one person who can read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 14, 2023 Super Members Share Posted July 14, 2023 Long shot but are the USB cables that you’ve tried definitely both data ones rather than charge only ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Long shot but are the USB cables that you’ve tried definitely both data ones rather than charge only ones? Ah… Mr Thicky, winner of last years Mr Thick contest, will try Monday upon his return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 On 7/14/2023 at 5:31 PM, MrSMW said: Ah… Mr Thicky, winner of last years Mr Thick contest, will try Monday upon his return. And just like, the vintage game is back on. It was indeed a firmware issue with the Fotodiox EF-L Mount adapter requiring an update and dummy here not realizing there was a difference between the 2 types of cable 🤪 Still need to see if I can get around that start up Q re. focal length, but sure I did with the S1H last year, and not a deal-breaker otherwise this combo is going to get a full run out on a 3 day job at the end of this week. It should work…or I would not be trying it, but final decision reserved whether this is going to be the final set up for the rest of this year after the weekend. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 The verdict... Mixed actually. Keeping it, but putting it into a purely static role. I have not yet edited the footage and created a finished production, but trawled through enough of the clips to get a solid idea. I think if I was purely a videographer, I'd get a matte box and go with something like this or one of the modern cine zooms such as the Laowa 28-70 or the DZO 35-80. Probably the Laowa because from what I have seen in side by side comparison, I prefer the rendering which is a slightly more contrasty modern look. The CZ40-80 is the exact opposite. Not completely softer, but much softer and less contrasty. From what I have seen, the DZO is somewhere between but more towards the Laowa. But I am a hybrid shooter and my overall conclusion is a pure manual focus lens does not have a place as my main roaming video lens. Anyway, this lens... IBIS was OK as was focusing most of the time. Focus would have been easier/better on the S1H rather than the S5ii because it's a slightly bigger and brighter screen. Even better with a 5 or 7 inch monitor, but then we're getting into videographer territory rather than hybrid shooter so a no no for me and the S1H is my primary stills unit. But the 40 + 80 mm focal lengths that I used it at were perfect for me. Close focus was terrible at well over 1 metre/3 feet so not a good lens at all for any kind of detail work. So as above, keeping it and welding it on to one of my S5ii's, (the injured one with a half press AF issue). Static duty only for ceremonies or speeches where it shines as switching on or off does not lose focus as it does with these modern fly by wire focus lenses where you have to reset it every time, even when set in manual mode. I've decided that as much as I prefer shooting 6k 30p for the quality, it's a bit of a pain in the arse being able to shoot shutter angle outdoors, but indoors, having to switch to 1/50th in order to avoid or at least massively reduce, any flickering/banding. So back to 4k 50p it is. Shooting 4k 50p means with my other S5ii, my roving video unit, I can use the tiny Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 (27-75) again, making for a nice compact unit that is not too heavy. Yes, weight has a certain quality for stability purposes, but it gets wearing, even for a fit bloke over a full day. That just leaves the S1H which is still my favourite camera (that I have owned or used) in a primarily stills role, but hybrid during ceremony & speeches when both the S5ii's are pulling static duty. Still toying what to do with this as there are pros and cons to keeping separate stills and video units or having them all hybrid. It's the lenses that are causing me the biggest issue as they have done since embarking on this hybrid journey over a decade ago. Right now, my top 3/4 bodies are; R3, Z9/Z8 and S1H. The lenses I would like are all Sony fit however, though can be adapted or coming to Nikon. L Mount/the S1H has only one lens that I'm really a fan of/suits my needs and that is the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 It's a dilemma because there are 3 principle options: A. Flip to Canon R3 for stills/hybrid, but it's 10k to do so, or 7k including trade in of S1H and a couple of lenses. For a single, not sideways, but marginal improvement, unit. The main appeal would be weight saving which is considerable. I could then explore shooting 6k 50p and pulling stills however which is a big future potential thing for me... B. Flip to Nikon Z9 or Z8 for stills/hybrid and as with the Canon, a considerable cost to trade of around 6k. I prefer the weight savings with the Canon set up, but I could explore 8k 50p now for pulling those stills... C. Stick with the S1H whose real only weaknesses are: bulk/weight (with grip and lens choices over the above options), lacks PDAF and battery grips annoy me as there is always slight movement in them. The big plus with this option though is what the S1H replacement might be... I just can't make a decision one way or the other but I'm fairly confident the pair of S5ii's will remain as dedicated video units and ideally, the stills/hybrid unit would remain in the same ecosystem, but not opposed to having a 'next gen' pro unit in the mix and arguably the R3/Z9/Z8 are the current next gen units. OK, the Sony A1 also is, but additional battery grip and it doesn't work for me. R3's, despite being more expensive new, are going for 500+ less than Z9's in equivalent condition... It's not simple. It never is. ac6000cw and kye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 4 hours ago, MrSMW said: The verdict... Mixed actually. Keeping it, but putting it into a purely static role. I have not yet edited the footage and created a finished production, but trawled through enough of the clips to get a solid idea. I think if I was purely a videographer, I'd get a matte box and go with something like this or one of the modern cine zooms such as the Laowa 28-70 or the DZO 35-80. Probably the Laowa because from what I have seen in side by side comparison, I prefer the rendering which is a slightly more contrasty modern look. The CZ40-80 is the exact opposite. Not completely softer, but much softer and less contrasty. From what I have seen, the DZO is somewhere between but more towards the Laowa. But I am a hybrid shooter and my overall conclusion is a pure manual focus lens does not have a place as my main roaming video lens. Anyway, this lens... IBIS was OK as was focusing most of the time. Focus would have been easier/better on the S1H rather than the S5ii because it's a slightly bigger and brighter screen. Even better with a 5 or 7 inch monitor, but then we're getting into videographer territory rather than hybrid shooter so a no no for me and the S1H is my primary stills unit. But the 40 + 80 mm focal lengths that I used it at were perfect for me. Close focus was terrible at well over 1 metre/3 feet so not a good lens at all for any kind of detail work. So as above, keeping it and welding it on to one of my S5ii's, (the injured one with a half press AF issue). Static duty only for ceremonies or speeches where it shines as switching on or off does not lose focus as it does with these modern fly by wire focus lenses where you have to reset it every time, even when set in manual mode. I've decided that as much as I prefer shooting 6k 30p for the quality, it's a bit of a pain in the arse being able to shoot shutter angle outdoors, but indoors, having to switch to 1/50th in order to avoid or at least massively reduce, any flickering/banding. So back to 4k 50p it is. Shooting 4k 50p means with my other S5ii, my roving video unit, I can use the tiny Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 (27-75) again, making for a nice compact unit that is not too heavy. Yes, weight has a certain quality for stability purposes, but it gets wearing, even for a fit bloke over a full day. That just leaves the S1H which is still my favourite camera (that I have owned or used) in a primarily stills role, but hybrid during ceremony & speeches when both the S5ii's are pulling static duty. Still toying what to do with this as there are pros and cons to keeping separate stills and video units or having them all hybrid. It's the lenses that are causing me the biggest issue as they have done since embarking on this hybrid journey over a decade ago. Right now, my top 3/4 bodies are; R3, Z9/Z8 and S1H. The lenses I would like are all Sony fit however, though can be adapted or coming to Nikon. L Mount/the S1H has only one lens that I'm really a fan of/suits my needs and that is the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 It's a dilemma because there are 3 principle options: A. Flip to Canon R3 for stills/hybrid, but it's 10k to do so, or 7k including trade in of S1H and a couple of lenses. For a single, not sideways, but marginal improvement, unit. The main appeal would be weight saving which is considerable. I could then explore shooting 6k 50p and pulling stills however which is a big future potential thing for me... B. Flip to Nikon Z9 or Z8 for stills/hybrid and as with the Canon, a considerable cost to trade of around 6k. I prefer the weight savings with the Canon set up, but I could explore 8k 50p now for pulling those stills... C. Stick with the S1H whose real only weaknesses are: bulk/weight (with grip and lens choices over the above options), lacks PDAF and battery grips annoy me as there is always slight movement in them. The big plus with this option though is what the S1H replacement might be... I just can't make a decision one way or the other but I'm fairly confident the pair of S5ii's will remain as dedicated video units and ideally, the stills/hybrid unit would remain in the same ecosystem, but not opposed to having a 'next gen' pro unit in the mix and arguably the R3/Z9/Z8 are the current next gen units. OK, the Sony A1 also is, but additional battery grip and it doesn't work for me. R3's, despite being more expensive new, are going for 500+ less than Z9's in equivalent condition... It's not simple. It never is. Makes sense. I did think that it would likely be a quite different rendering than the modern lenses that you've been using, so was wondering how that would go. I think vintage lenses suit a certain style of shooting where things are very controlled. This means that you can have control over the flaring and halation and other vintage lens characteristics because you can adjust lighting and matte boxes etc. Unfortunately for high-paced run-n-gun shooting it is nice to have these things kept to a minimum so you're not so limited by them. Still, it's always an interesting experiment and sounds like you're wiser for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 1 hour ago, kye said: I think vintage lenses suit a certain style of shooting where things are very controlled I think that is about the sum of it Kye. 1 hour ago, kye said: Still, it's always an interesting experiment and sounds like you're wiser for it Yep. It was more a 'can I really work with manual focus all the time' rather than 'can I work with a vintage lens' and the answer to that is I guess nope, not really. Not for what I do and how I work. The conclusion is I prefer my AF to acquire approach and then lock focus technique. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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