raw video on my Pixel Pro 7

[Brian Williams]

Maybe this has been discussed before, (Or maybe people don't care about such things at this point in technology), but I just discovered this app for my Pixel 7 Pro called Motioncam Pro that can do C4K raw CDNG, and to an external SSD at that.

Again, maybe this app has been around for awhile and I'm late to the game, and I know its just a tiny sensor, but for someone broke like me, who can no longer afford my old GAS lifestyle, this is a pretty fun and cheap way to get back into the grueling fun of raw video.

The app can even export gyro data for use in Gyroflow, for stabilization.

Nothing too exciting here-

 

[kye]

@Brian Williams On the contrary..  Lots of interest, as expressed in this thread!

Smartphone sensors have enormous potential if we could just get all the ridiculous over-processing out of the way to get to the image.  I've developed a powergrade that matches my iPhone to my GX85 to suit the work I do, but RAW would be the far easier option, that's for sure!

[Brian Williams]

12 minutes ago, kye said:

@Brian Williams On the contrary..  Lots of interest, as expressed in this thread!

Smartphone sensors have enormous potential if we could just get all the ridiculous over-processing out of the way to get to the image.  I've developed a powergrade that matches my iPhone to my GX85 to suit the work I do, but RAW would be the far easier option, that's for sure!

Ugh, sorry, I should’ve known there was an existing thread!

[kye]

15 minutes ago, Brian Williams said:

Ugh, sorry, I should’ve known there was an existing thread!

No worries!

A little bit of excess enthusiasm is the least of our issues!!

What are you planning on using the RAW for?  or is it just a recent discovery?

[Brian Williams]

Just now, kye said:

No worries!

A little bit of excess enthusiasm is the least of our issues!!

What are you planning on using the RAW for?  or is it just a recent discovery?

Just a recent discovery. I think I still had an iPhone the last time I even thought about raw video on a phone, and there wasn’t a useable app anywhere at the time (esp. not on the iPhone, I assume there probably never will be). The closest I got was the iPhone 13 Pro with ProRes, but after dropping close to $2k for the 1TB version so that it could hold all that ProRes, I started to think it wasn’t worth the money, for what I was doing at least (which is filming my kids basically).

So I was kind of floored yesterday when I just happened to discover Motioncam, especially the fact that I could dust off my old T5 ssd and plug it into the phone to record straight to the ssd. Such a cheaper setup, and I’m getting 4K raw. I kind of thought I was giving up on mobile filmmaking when I went over to android, but I guess not!

[markr041]

1 hour ago, Brian Williams said:

Maybe this has been discussed before, (Or maybe people don't care about such things at this point in technology), but I just discovered this app for my Pixel 7 Pro called Motioncam Pro that can do C4K raw CDNG, and to an external SSD at that.

Again, maybe this app has been around for awhile and I'm late to the game, and I know its just a tiny sensor, but for someone broke like me, who can no longer afford my old GAS lifestyle, this is a pretty fun and cheap way to get back into the grueling fun of raw video.

The app can even export gyro data for use in Gyroflow, for stabilization.

Nothing too exciting here-

 

I am confused - you say there is C4K RAW video, but the aspect ratio of your video is hardly that - is RAW only available with this truncated AR?

The biggest problem, aside from the fact of a low frame rate, is the dynamic range - the face has conspicuous blow-outs for example. I do not see how this kind of video could be matched with any competent mirrorless camera shooting 4K.

I can see why this is fun; I had it using magic lantern on an EOS M - shooting RAW with a $300 camera! But, it sucks.

[kye]

2 minutes ago, Brian Williams said:

Just a recent discovery. I think I still had an iPhone the last time I even thought about raw video on a phone, and there wasn’t a useable app anywhere at the time (esp. not on the iPhone, I assume there probably never will be). The closest I got was the iPhone 13 Pro with ProRes, but after dropping close to $2k for the 1TB version so that it could hold all that ProRes, I started to think it wasn’t worth the money, for what I was doing at least (which is filming my kids basically).

So I was kind of floored yesterday when I just happened to discover Motioncam, especially the fact that I could dust off my old T5 ssd and plug it into the phone to record straight to the ssd. Such a cheaper setup, and I’m getting 4K raw. I kind of thought I was giving up on mobile filmmaking when I went over to android, but I guess not!

Absolutely!

I must admit that my excitement to hear that Apple introduced prores was topped only by my disappointment when I saw that they were the first people in history to implement prores to record an image that had been dragged through all 7 levels of hell first, rather than it just being a neutral high-quality compressed version of the RAW image.

[markr041]

9 minutes ago, kye said:

Absolutely!

I must admit that my excitement to hear that Apple introduced prores was topped only by my disappointment when I saw that they were the first people in history to implement prores to record an image that had been dragged through all 7 levels of hell first, rather than it just being a neutral high-quality compressed version of the RAW image.

Maybe you are forgetting why cellphone stills and videos look so good - the amount of sophisticated AI processing that the hardware provides. Given the tiny sensors, I would guess the RAW images would look terrible (DR, for one !) and be impossible to salvage with any computer program. But I would certainly like to be proven wrong (I doubt anyone here will).

[kye]

2 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Maybe you are forgetting why cellphone stills and videos look so good - the amount of sophisticated AI processing that the hardware provides. Given the tiny sensors, I would guess the RAW images would look terrible (DR, for one !) and be impossible to salvage with any computer program. But I would certainly like to be proven wrong (I doubt anyone here will).

If you take time-lapses using RAW stills then they look pretty good.

No-one is expecting it to look like an Alexa, but it looks way better than the prores files that the latest iPhone creates.

[markr041]

8 minutes ago, kye said:

If you take time-lapses using RAW stills then they look pretty good.

No-one is expecting it to look like an Alexa, but it looks way better than the prores files that the latest iPhone creates.

I agree about the time lapses.

Indeed, a lot of the high-resolution "video" TV 4K and 8K demos (Samsung, LG, Sony) shown in stores are time-lapses, because I suspect at least early on there were no 4K and 8K video cameras of good-enough quality. 

[mercer]

47 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I am confused - you say there is C4K RAW video, but the aspect ratio of your video is hardly that - is RAW only available with this truncated AR?

The biggest problem, aside from the fact of a low frame rate, is the dynamic range - the face has conspicuous blow-outs for example. I do not see how this kind of video could be matched with any competent mirrorless camera shooting 4K.

I can see why this is fun; I had it using magic lantern on an EOS M - shooting RAW with a $300 camera! But, it sucks.

I'm confused as well... as someone who posts test shots, I understand what it's like to put yourself out there on a public forum. So I applaud anyone on this forum that is willing to share.

Since you post a lot of shots from your camera(s) of the week, I'd think you may have the same reservations and extend the same courtesy.

Truth is, I loved everything about Brian's post and despise almost everything about your reply...

It's a shame that with all of your money, you can't seem to afford common courtesy and manners.

[mercer]

Anyway...

2 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

Maybe this has been discussed before, (Or maybe people don't care about such things at this point in technology), but I just discovered this app for my Pixel 7 Pro called Motioncam Pro that can do C4K raw CDNG, and to an external SSD at that.

Again, maybe this app has been around for awhile and I'm late to the game, and I know its just a tiny sensor, but for someone broke like me, who can no longer afford my old GAS lifestyle, this is a pretty fun and cheap way to get back into the grueling fun of raw video.

The app can even export gyro data for use in Gyroflow, for stabilization.

Nothing too exciting here-

 

Nice work, Brian. The sound of a lawn mower going over branches brings back many memories of my childhood.

I liked the quality and can really see the raw look, especially in your dog's hair.

Since I've exclusively shot raw video for years, I'm curious to hear how the post process is? I could see this being a great B-cam when I need to go incognito. Did you use the gyro function?

[Brian Williams]

5 hours ago, markr041 said:

I am confused - you say there is C4K RAW video, but the aspect ratio of your video is hardly that - is RAW only available with this truncated AR?

The biggest problem, aside from the fact of a low frame rate, is the dynamic range - the face has conspicuous blow-outs for example. I do not see how this kind of video could be matched with any competent mirrorless camera shooting 4K.

I can see why this is fun; I had it using magic lantern on an EOS M - shooting RAW with a $300 camera! But, it sucks.

I mean, ok. I said it could shoot C4K, which it can, I just chose a different aspect ratio for this particular video.

It can shoot raw up to 60fps, I choose 24fps, I don't consider either a low frame rate.

The face is blown out I guess at some point, I need to go back to find it, but likely user error, I overexposed.

I also owned the EOS M to use the magic lantern hack, and that DID suck, bc you didn't get a realtime preview, or if you did it was insanely cropped, and the Dr sucked. This looks much better than that, we can agree to disagree, and it has optical stabilization, focus peaking, realtime preview, 4K, 60p.

I'm not claiming this is somehow better than a modern mirrorless, but very few modern mirrorless shoot raw, hell most are just now getting to 10bit. This looks better than the videos I get when using the stock video app. And I'm fucking poor and can't afford a modern mirrorless, so yeah, I have this (relatively cheap) phone that all of a sudden can shoot raw, I'm going to enjoy it.

[Cosimo]

@Brian Williams welcome to motioncam man, I find it very nice and I am skint like you. I cannot invest money into expensive cameras since I am not in this video business, so I am enjoying it as it is. Developers are working on this app to improve it and solve some of the bugs and is getting better and better, keep sharing your videos!

[billdoubleu]

Fantastic video! The quality of RAW on a light, slim phone, plus grading software, compared to the gigantic VHS camera my dad had in the 80s is absolutely unbelievable.

I love using motioncam on my Pixel 6a for a 15fps 8mm feel. It's really fun and freeing in the sense that I don't stress about getting a perfect image with it like I do my mirrorless cameras. I just get the exposure as close as I can and let 'er rip. It's easier to focus on framing when you aren't worried about exposure or focus.

Though I do wish the focusing had a better, less chaotic, feel with the slider. I like the feeling on the focus ring in my hand. The only other thing I find frustrating with Android phones in comparison to an iphone is the lack of good accessories due to the inexistence of standardization between manufacturers. I would love to be able to get a nice variND for my phone that doesn't seem janky or third party. I'm not a fan of fluctuating shutter speed for exposure.

[PannySVHS]

Really appreciate the reactivation of interest for raw video with a smartphone. Thanks for restarting the already nice discussion in this thread. @Brian Williams

Some of my favorite colour palettes presented on youtube have been shot with Eos M Raw btw, rivaling the best available light shots presented on this forum, bettering most.

Raw images from 1/1.7-1.8 sensors in compact cameras have displayed some tasty colours, that from 10 year old cameras such as an Oly XZ2 or XZ10. The latter even with a smaller 1/2.3 sensor. So I imagine a modern sensor in these and larger sizes will put out a nice RAW image for video to work with. I have had success with processing Jpegs from old 6MPix cameras. So, looking forward to see this thing gaining momentum.

Would love some manual focus fun and ND options and nice handling as well. 😊 @billdoubleu

[stephen]

For those who are interested in using smartphones as video cameras, check motioncam and Sebastian Merca's youtube channels. There are some great examples and also comparisons with BMPCC 4K and Panasonic S1H. And you can download source file too !

I downloaded one clip shot by Sebastian Merca at night (challenging lighting) on Samsung S22 Ultra main camera and applied some fine grain, film emulsion and blooming with Dehancer plugin. Total 15 min. of work. Here is the result (file in the link will stay for few weeks, then it will be gone):

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15blxv9w_8nsOdTWgZbLKsCwTkVi9f1Bm?usp=sharing

and here is the original with download link to a much bigger Prores source file

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1_TSYpYFBU

For me picture quality is better than iPhone 13/14. I would say much better. Also shot few clips at 18 fps on my Samsung S10+. I am impressed !

This year some flagship Android phones from Xiaomi, Oppo and Vivo are with 1 inch main camera sensor size and the other cameras are with bigger sensors too. According to some initial reports and reviews on Vivo X90 +
all 4 cameras are available to motioncam application and can shoot at 60fps with just few dropped frames. Same for Xiaomi 13 Ultra and Pro although on main camera 60fps are only at 4K DCI aspect ratio. At 24 and 30 fps you can shoot at 4:3 or so called open gate. Keep in mind this is not my personal experience, just what I read in forums and what people testing those devices report on youtube.

Those smartphones for me are the Super 16 digital cameras of the year not EOS M in crop mode.
Downside are tiny lenses and 23mm equivalent focal length on main camera. One solution would be to crop in post 4000:1.5=2666 to get to 35mm which is much better focal length. Still decent resolution and with Davinci Resolve Super Scale to 4K picture will look very good IMHO.

For smartphones where cameras are in circular block like Xiaomi 13 Ultra and Vivo X90+ there are special cases where filter can be attached (screwed), similar to the Xiaomi 13 Ultra photo case which takes 67mm filters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UVQ5jK-Ygw

For all other phones look at third parties solution like smallrig. They have universal cages where in similar fashion you can use regular circular ND or VariND filters on top of the camera block. Like this one:

https://www.smallrig.com/SmallRig-MagEase-Magnetic-1-4-Effect-Black-Mist-Filter-Kit-52mm-4217.html

[kye]

4 hours ago, stephen said:

I downloaded one clip shot by Sebastian Merca at night (challenging lighting) on Samsung S22 Ultra main camera and applied some fine grain, film emulsion and blooming with Dehancer plugin. Total 15 min. of work. Here is the result (file in the link will stay for few weeks, then it will be gone):

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15blxv9w_8nsOdTWgZbLKsCwTkVi9f1Bm?usp=sharing

and here is the original with download link to a much bigger Prores source file

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1_TSYpYFBU

For me picture quality is better than iPhone 13/14. I would say much better. Also shot few clips at 18 fps on my Samsung S10+. I am impressed !

Wow - that looks really good!  I shoot with my phone regularly so I see a reasonable amount of iPhone footage and I agree that the iPhone doesn't look that good.

To my eyes it's clearly RAW.  Despite the low bitrates that YT uses to compress things, if you give it something shot on RAW then the quality of the YT stream goes up significantly - things like the falling snow and fine detail gives this away.

Here's an example of a very high-quality RAW capture, but this is from 2015 and only uploaded in 1080p:

It has the same look to me.

4 hours ago, stephen said:

Those smartphones for me are the Super 16 digital cameras of the year not EOS M in crop mode.

Definitely agree with this.

I would go further and suggest that the lesser phones (any phone shooting a compressed codec) are modern Super 8 emulations.  I say this because:

• they get used for home videos like 8mm used to be and are the perfect tool for shooting for fun and not thinking about the quality of the work
• by the time you process the footage so the compression isn't visible they're not as sharp as RAW 4K
• they're likely using SS to expose
• there's enough hand-held motion shown in the frames that it's a different look to a S16 film camera

I have to resist the temptation to turn random iPhone shots in my projects into 8mm film emulation 🙂