Canon Highlights?

[SRV1981]

Been checking some videos of the r7/8 and other canons lately to see how they fair to Sony and I noticed a lot of blown out highlights.  Is that a flaw of the processor/sensor or users on YT?

[TomTheDP]

4 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Been checking some videos of the r7/8 and other canons lately to see how they fair to Sony and I noticed a lot of blown out highlights.  Is that a flaw of the processor/sensor or users on YT?

The ones that don’t have clog2 kind of suck dynamic range wise. All Sony cams (mostly) have slog3 which can contain all the dynamic range the sensor can put out.

[SRV1981]

16 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

The ones that don’t have clog2 kind of suck dynamic range wise. All Sony cams (mostly) have slog3 which can contain all the dynamic range the sensor can put out.

So the hybrid market of r7/r8 is inferior to a6700/a7iv?

[SRV1981]

Not sure if this helps:

 

 

[ntblowz]

Just based on DR? That is pretty laughable 😆

But yes Canon mirrorless camera DR is not as good vs competitor, but cinema on the other hand is different story.

39 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

So the hybrid market of r7/r8 is inferior to a6700/a7iv?

[SRV1981]

2 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Just based on DR? That is pretty laughable 😆

But yes Canon mirrorless camera DR is not as good vs competitor, but cinema on the other hand is different story.

Why laughable? If color is not much of a difference but DR/rolloff is a big difference between log profiles wouldn’t that make canons R line inferior in image to Sonys A line?

[ntblowz]

8 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Why laughable? If color is not much of a difference but DR/rolloff is a big difference between log profiles wouldn’t that make canons R line inferior in image to Sonys A line?

All camera is trash to Alexa by ur logic then, cause no one touches Alexa on DR if colour is comparable.

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

All camera is trash to Alexa by ur logic then, cause no one touches Alexa on DR if colour is comparable.

Sure but I guess I was referring to canon vs Sony as stated in the post?

[PannySVHS]

CineD and Imatest give dynamic range numbers. Btw, all Sonys are outnumbered by Panasonic full frame cameras. Alexa 35, Alexa Classic, Alexa LF, Red Raptor, Canon C500II, C70, C300II are the best dynamic range cams. S1H about the same as the latter. Alexas and Red Raptor in their own league. The Alexas are also latitude winners, the 35 a monster. GH6 in Dual Gain performing in latitude as good as a full frame Sony A7 IV.

I love how my tiny 8bit LX15 responds in colour grading. In 4K though! It has a beautiful colour palette for colour grading but ooc it is nothing to write home about. But in Davinci some of the most fun and satisfying grading experiences and colours. Dynamic range is good enough for a 709 profile and for my taste. I like the results I am getting better than most stuff on youtube coming from 10bit Log machines and dynamic range champions.

Dynamic range is one of the many, many parameters of an image. A7s2 had good dynamic range but aweful codec and colours. Log of Canon hybrids seems faulted as shadow area is cut off and does not reach full black. Still, I like the image I am seeing on youtube coming from them much better than most of the Sony stuff.

[TomTheDP]

Honestly rent both and see what you think. There is a lot more to using a camera than simply looking at a dynamic range chart. I like the out of the box Canon looks more than Sony regardless of dynamic range. Plus there is ergonomics and all that to consider. 

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

Honestly rent both and see what you think. There is a lot more to using a camera than simply looking at a dynamic range chart. I like the out of the box Canon looks more than Sony regardless of dynamic range. Plus there is ergonomics and all that to consider. 

What about comparing slog3 to clog2

[kye]

18 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

CineD and Imatest give dynamic range numbers. Btw, all Sonys are outnumbered by Panasonic full frame cameras. Alexa 35, Alexa Classic, Alexa LF, Red Raptor, Canon C500II, C70, C300II are the best dynamic range cams. S1H about the same as the latter. Alexas and Red Raptor in their own league. The Alexas are also latitude winners, the 35 a monster. GH6 in Dual Gain performing in latitude as good as a full frame Sony A7 IV.

I love how my tiny 8bit LX15 responds in colour grading. In 4K though! It has a beautiful colour palette for colour grading but ooc it is nothing to write home about. But in Davinci some of the most fun and satisfying grading experiences and colours. Dynamic range is good enough for a 709 profile and for my taste. I like the results I am getting better than most stuff on youtube coming from 10bit Log machines and dynamic range champions.

Dynamic range is one of the many, many parameters of an image. A7s2 had good dynamic range but aweful codec and colours. Log of Canon hybrids seems faulted as shadow area is cut off and does not reach full black. Still, I like the image I am seeing on youtube coming from them much better than most of the Sony stuff.

I have also swapped from reviewing DR figures to looking at latitude testing, and even did some latitude tests of my own cameras as they were not performed by CineD.

Sure, you might have one or two more stops in outright DR, but if those extra stops are bright purple or leafy green then they don't count as much as ones where the colours are neutral and the only issue is noise.

This is especially relevant when shooting in high DR environments I think, as one of two things can happen:

• You're shooting with proper exposures and the right ratios, in which the extra stops of DR will only be included deep into the highlight and shadow shoulder/knee rolloffs, so are providing a relatively minor improvement to the image
• You're not shooting with the right exposure and ratios and you need the extra DR in order to bring up relevant details from the shadows or pulling down the highlights to bring out relevant details from there - which in either case is heavily dependent on how good those areas look

When you start evaluating cameras on that basis, the rankings get shuffled significantly with some "high DR" cameras taking a pretty awful fall from grace, whereas others with more modest DR numbers climb up that ranking because all those stops are neutral and very usable.  

[kye]

I should also add to the above, that if you're shooting with any modern camera with 12stops or more of DR in a high-DR environment and the shadow noise and highlight clipping are both visible, then stop grading your images so they look like log footage and add some contrast FFS 🙂 

[SRV1981]

17 minutes ago, kye said:

I have also swapped from reviewing DR figures to looking at latitude testing, and even did some latitude tests of my own cameras as they were not performed by CineD.

Sure, you might have one or two more stops in outright DR, but if those extra stops are bright purple or leafy green then they don't count as much as ones where the colours are neutral and the only issue is noise.

This is especially relevant when shooting in high DR environments I think, as one of two things can happen:

• You're shooting with proper exposures and the right ratios, in which the extra stops of DR will only be included deep into the highlight and shadow shoulder/knee rolloffs, so are providing a relatively minor improvement to the image
• You're not shooting with the right exposure and ratios and you need the extra DR in order to bring up relevant details from the shadows or pulling down the highlights to bring out relevant details from there - which in either case is heavily dependent on how good those areas look

When you start evaluating cameras on that basis, the rankings get shuffled significantly with some "high DR" cameras taking a pretty awful fall from grace, whereas others with more modest DR numbers climb up that ranking because all those stops are neutral and very usable.  

Any specifcs? Says comparing a7iv, fx30, S5II, R8/7?

[kye]

8 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Any specifcs? Says comparing a7iv, fx30, S5II, R8/7?

I haven't reviewed the current batch of cameras so not really.  Realistically unless you have the cameras yourself then you need to find a source online where someone has done latitude tests.

CineD.com does good ones, so that's a good place to start.

For example, here are a few cameras under exposed and pushed back:

But when reviewing these you have to also compare how far over each camera can do as well, as different cameras put middle grey in different places.  You'll also note that the Sigma FP uses different notation ("ETTR" vs "stops under") because they didn't know where to put middle grey and so compared to a different scale.

Like many things in cameras - it can't be reduced to a single number so you have to do the analysis and comparison yourself because half the benefit of the information is the understanding that you get in figuring out how to compare them yourself.

[Benjamin Hilton]

Yeah I had the same concern watching YT reviews before I bought an R7, I think it's mainly the users though, not the camera. 

I have both the R7 and the Lumix S1 plus som GH5s. Definitely a bit lower DR on the Canon compared to the S1, but not a big deal overall. Watching where you put your exposure and doing a good rolloff curve in post is much more important than actual numbers in my opinion when it comes to DR though. Seems pretty close to the GH5s IMO

[jpfilmz]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:51 PM, SRV1981 said:

Been checking some videos of the r7/8 and other canons lately to see how they fair to Sony and I noticed a lot of blown out highlights.  Is that a flaw of the processor/sensor or users on YT?

Highly likely to be the YouTuber fault.

[SRV1981]

11 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

Highly likely to be the YouTuber fault.

I am feeling this too. Any good comparisons to judge canon clog3 and slog2 say fx30 and r7 or r8 and a7iv