5 concerning trends in photo/video forums

[John Matthews]

On 8/9/2023 at 4:11 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Indeed. My X-S20 just arrived, and have 6k 10-bit 4:2:2 with good(ish?) AF and IBIS in a body roughly bigger than a GX85. 4-5 years ago, it was unthinkable.

But ergos are all over the place - this a thing that could improve. I've taken my GH2 out of the dry box to use it to test the last m43 lenses that I'm selling. First, this thing is freaking small - since the GH3 we forgot how small it was. And, even small...look at the image.

Left dial, focus area, with a lever to switch the AF mode. Main dial (with 3 custom positions!) with two lever, one to set drive mode and other is the on-off switch (in a amazing position, very easy to access with the thumb). 

I miss this a lot.

(and good internal mics - the GH2 mics are VERY good, much better than all the other Pannys that I had (never had a GH5 or G9, though).

I have 2 GH2s. I usually only use them for live streaming, but the other day, I decided to swap it out with the GH6. I "only" do 1080p streaming and the image was about 10% more detailed than the GH2, but by the time it actually reaches the other person, I doubt anyone would notice.

I also love the ergos on the GH2. I've come accustomed to operating it backwards. I will say it does weird things when you hit the display button in the HDMI.

The internal mics are decent, but I think it's mainly because of no IBIS. The GX85, by comparison, is unusable. This is actually why I use the G100 for a lot of stuff because there isn't any weirdness in the audio. This cannot be entirely the case though. My GX850 has some of the worst audio I've ever heard, even with C-AF off. Manufacturers fine-tune their mics to NOT pick up some sounds (IBIS, AF motors, etc.). My feeling is that the GX85 and GX850 didn't have the R&D budget for that.

[ND64]

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Fast forward almost 20 years later, and now streaming (and soon AI) have made being a deejay super-accessible, but also super hard to monetize, while rooting it in motivations and incentives that share little with what it meant to be a 'real deejay' pre-digital revolution.

All female DJs I follow are super model first and a DJ second 🙂

[PannySVHS]

Without forums and old school youtubers, the video nerd world would be a dull place.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

16 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

I was a club hip-hip deejay in another life and grew up thinking the record store (like these forums) would always be the community meeting place for all things pertaining to deejay culture. Then the digital revolution came and changed everything. But it didn't happen overnight. We just started going to the record store less and less as it became clearer and clearer that Serato had disrupted the vinyl-spinning era and deejaying as we knew it. Then Serato started added more features that rendered the skill sets deejays had spent their entire careers honing (like beat-matching, beat juggling, transitioning to acapellas etc, etc) and coveting, completely irrelevant. Fast forward almost 20 years later, and now streaming (and soon AI) have made being a deejay super-accessible, but also super hard to monetize, while rooting it in motivations and incentives that share little with what it meant to be a 'real deejay' pre-digital revolution.

All that to say that I think what some are feeling/seeing is a similar shift, a transformation, a departure from the online filmmaking/video culture we've been familiar with, to something else. 

 

 

Yep, it is a similar story too.

I had my (very amateur) dj days too, albeit being a Traktor guy (already in the middle of the transition). But learnt to mix with vinyl, MUCH more rewarding. 🙂

[MrSMW]

Met an ‘olde schoole’ DJ at a wedding the other day who mixed the various latest tech in lighting (reactive to the music?) but only spinning vinyl.

AI can’t replace this guy. You’d need a Nexus 6. Or 5 a least…

He’s set up in a tent on the afternoon taking requests (you go through his boxes of discs and pick stuff) and he then mixes it and twiddles knobs and dances along etc…

In the evening, it’s a different location indoors and he’s spent several hours setting up his lighting not behind him as ‘all’ DJ’s do, but throughout the entire room.

If you want to protect your career, then carve a niche that is hard to replicate and basically impossible to do!

[kye]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Met an ‘olde schoole’ DJ at a wedding the other day who mixed the various latest tech in lighting (reactive to the music?) but only spinning vinyl.

AI can’t replace this guy. You’d need a Nexus 6. Or 5 a least…

He’s set up in a tent on the afternoon taking requests (you go through his boxes of discs and pick stuff) and he then mixes it and twiddles knobs and dances along etc…

In the evening, it’s a different location indoors and he’s spent several hours setting up his lighting not behind him as ‘all’ DJ’s do, but throughout the entire room.

If you want to protect your career, then carve a niche that is hard to replicate and basically impossible to do!

If you're doing something in person and have a sunny disposition (or a personality that others are drawn to) then yeah, very difficult for AI to replicate that, at least in the short or medium term.

If you're separated from your customers and the clients only experience of your work is the deliverables then that's a much tougher proposition.  

We can't change our stripes to suit the current whims of capitalism and technology, but we have the ability to choose how respond to the world around us, even if we can't decide how it should be, and that might be enough for quite a few people.  

In my corporate day job there are AIs that can do the practical stuff way better than I can, but one of the primary reasons they're "better" is that they ignore the human factors and make rational decisions.  As a human, I know that the preferences and personalities and politics and culture and history and various X-factors that are in play often overshadow the "rational" answer, and even beyond that, I know when they do and when they don't take precedence over the practical answer.  Perhaps the biggest challenge in this sort of environment is when the human factors are at odds with practical matters and the only way forward is to take the humans through the materials, educating and validating and clarifying along the way, to hopefully close the gap between what was palatable and what was required.  In this, AIs are still light-years behind.

[MrSMW]

Which is also why I think I am pretty safe being in the wedding industry for the next decade until I retire.

It really would require something like a Nexus 6 to replicate what we do!

[Ilkka Nissila]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:08 AM, Eric Calabros said:

1- the rate of decline in engagement in all of the photo/video forums and websites is depressing. Even comment sections are mini ghost towns compared to same place ten years ago. Maybe social media is stealing a lot of that free time usually spent on traditional web in the past. 

2- many of those people who could write informative blog posts are now like "why bother writting any more when no one reads any more?". Today they're making videos, and try hard to make it 10 min long, which means they have to add a lot of water to the milk. 

3- I don't see any other industry with so much negativity about the major brands of that industry. Telling people they don't need and shouldn't buy new released products is a norm in our corner of internet fora! There is hype moments before and after press release days, but overall discouragement is way bigger. But look at car enthusiasts or audiophiles online communities...They're constantly encourage each other to buy more!

4- lack of communication between experienced users and newcomers is hurting everyone, and sometimes it's sad. Many people who are upgrading from smartphone, are making mistakes related to misunderstandings that discussed and explained and solved seven years ago. They just don't know where to find the knowledge.

5-  a tendency to reduce everything to "matter of taste" has emerged to the point that the whole concept of critique apears as moot point, like there is no wrong way and right way of doing things!

 

Maybe its overthinking. I don't know.. just wanted to share my thoughts. 

I think the problem originates from photography (and video) being originally quite difficult to do technically so that when there is a really good photo or short movie, it was viewed with excitement, and people gathered around online to celebrate such things and try to learn the craft themselves. Online forums were quite active.

 

Eventually the cameras got better, easier to use and cheaper, and so hundreds of millions of people bought them, and making a decent photograph was no longer unusual, not a luxury or a rarity. Thus it became progressively more difficult to make a living from it, or be noticed with your images (whether amateur or professional). Forum activity reflects this - if it is no longer possible to make a difference with photos or videos then fewer people will enjoy the pursuit, or chatting about it. Of course, it is still possible but there is such a quantity of it readily available for consumption that people no longer stop to watch this content. And they don't value it because they don't see it as special.  Even if the photo is special, they are looking at it on a tiny screen the size of their hands at reading distance away, and that's really small. If you try to come back to it, chances are you will not find it again, as the feed has changed with new material. Rarely is the creator of the photograph mentioned online. What's the point then?

 

I think rather than give information for free, a lot of people are giving workshops and may try to commercialize their knowledge. In the beginning of the internet, people were so excited about sharing and it was not about making money.

 

Social media tends to show people what they've liked before, so then all the content gets likes and there is no space for criticism, or if you do, then your comment probably gets deleted, you might become unfriended, or get a fierce rebuttal to the criticism. No one bothers to read through the discourse. Forums are full of discussions where disagreements and agreements are on more equal footing, but in social media, it's all about likes, and agreeing with the opinion of the poster. The algorithms ensure that you basically only see things that are similar to what you have "liked" before. And if you do give a more neutral or negative comment, people get offended as you're clearly not subscribing to the same bubble that they are. There is no room for genuine discussion on social media.

 

That people don't read any more is a serious problem. It means they aren't being informed, and they probably aren't thinking much, either. Finding facts in videos is very time-consuming and that medium is more suited for dissemination of stories, emotions, etc. and experiences whereas text and illustrations usually are better in disseminating facts. All these media have their place and should be supported. How this happens, I don't know. Personally I enjoy watching videos from time to time, movies, documentaries etc. but find that often it is faster to find the information I'm looking for outside of the video medium. I would be surprised if young people can get through life without reading.

[kye]

Just to pile on....

Quote

Here are some heart wrenching statistics. 33% of high school graduates never read another book the rest of their lives and 42% of college grads never read another book after college. 70% of US adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years and 80% of US families did not buy or read a book last year.

Source: https://goodereader.com/blog/bookselling/reading-books-is-on-the-decline

Those stats are from 2018.  I don't think the trend would have reversed in the meantime.

[IronFilm]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:28 PM, TomTheDP said:

Less people buying cameras now doesn't help either. Not everyone needs DSLR when a phone does such a good job.

Also no need to buy a new camera every year when your Nikon D7100 DSLR (or Sony a6000 mirorless) from years ago still takes stellar pictures. 

On 8/11/2023 at 3:14 PM, Ty Harper said:

We just started going to the record store less and less as it became clearer and clearer that Serato had disrupted the vinyl-spinning era and deejaying as we knew it. Then Serato started added more features that rendered the skill sets deejays had spent their entire careers honing (like beat-matching, beat juggling, transitioning to acapellas etc, etc) and coveting, completely irrelevant.

A kiwi company btw! One of my friends founded Serato, I remember going out for drinks with him say 15+ yrs ago, and when we're in a club he'd have a nosy to see what the DJs were using, seeing if they're using Serato or not

He also dabbles in acting a little bit (as he's kinda semi retired now), I worked on a film with him a few years ago. 

  

1 hour ago, kye said:

Quote

Here are some heart wrenching statistics. 33% of high school graduates never read another book the rest of their lives and 42% of college grads never read another book after college. 70% of US adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years and 80% of US families did not buy or read a book last year.

Curious how many of those books being read are nonfiction, I bet the stats are even more depressing when it comes to people educating themselves from books 

[Ty Harper]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:42 AM, MrSMW said:

Which is also why I think I am pretty safe being in the wedding industry for the next decade until I retire.

It really would require something like a Nexus 6 to replicate what we do!

Except what can happen is that the people working in the realms that are drying up, will be forced into finding work elsewhere - and within that pool will undoubtably be people who are (i) totally qualified to work in these other realms - it's just that they chose to apply the same core skill sets in a different realm within the same industry (ii) people overly qualified to work in these other realms of the same industry who really need the $$. These people will very likely disrupt said realm, intensify the competition, drive fees downward, and eventually squeeze some people out of said realm. Point is, I can totally see cinematographers, tv/film producers, and most definitely preditors (producer/editors) who might've been working for decades in stable areas of the industry (even unionized gigs) - making a fairly quick/easy transition to the wedding world. So while I think you're probably right about that 10 year window - I think every realm needs to be prepared for turbulence - and not just from AI itself, from similarly skilled colleagues looking for work within the next 10 years.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

So while I think you're probably right about that 10 year window - I think every realm needs to be prepared for turbulence - and not just from AI itself, from similarly skilled colleagues looking for work within the next 10 years.

Indeed. I think I am personally relatively safe but otherwise there is always flux in most industries and as long as you spend sufficient time and effort on the medium and long term, you should be generally fine.

What seems increasingly to be the case is the focus on short term gain. Plenty of folks I come across selling their granny for a small ‘one off’ pay day whilst rejecting anything longer term.

I won’t bore you with the details, but just recently I had the situation where a colleague chose 500 euros over a career length full-time situation…just out of sheer short-sightedness.

As has always been the case since man stopped fighting the dinosaurs, just because someone is in business does not mean they are good at business.

Most people I find are utterly terrible at business and exist more because there is a market demand rather than any business skills.

[kye]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Most people I find are utterly terrible at business and exist more because there is a market demand rather than any business skills.

A saying I hear a lot is "a rising tide lifts all boats".  The opposite of that is when the tide goes out and the boats that don't float well hit the rocks and sink.

[fuzzynormal]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:01 PM, MrSMW said:

utterly terrible at business and exist more because there is a market demand

I feel seen.  

For me, it's a double whammy.  Lord knows I could do all the tech stuff necessary to create beautiful wedding videos and could have a stable lucrative career in that, but I did those gigs early on in my career, didn't like it, and vowed I'd never do it again.

I'm literally avoiding making money in a readily available well rewarded market because of some very old "reasons".

Nah.  I'll make documentaries!  That'll pay the bills!  

 

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Nah.  I'll make documentaries!  That'll pay the bills!

You should always do what you love doing more than doing something just because it pays.

As much as anyone can that is, sometimes we just have to pay the bills.

I consider myself fortunate that I genuinely love shooting weddings, but that’s probably more because I built a business on doing it ‘my way’ and that’s what my clients book me for, - their lack of input.

You still get one every now and again that thinks it’s their day and all about them though 😉

[kye]

11 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I feel seen.  

For me, it's a double whammy.  Lord knows I could do all the tech stuff necessary to create beautiful wedding videos and could have a stable lucrative career in that, but I did those gigs early on in my career, didn't like it, and vowed I'd never do it again.

I'm literally avoiding making money in a readily available well rewarded market because of some very old "reasons".

Nah.  I'll make documentaries!  That'll pay the bills!  

One saying I keep reminding myself and other people of is "Can doesn't mean should, and should doesn't mean will".

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...  otherwise we'd all have to murder everyone.  Or, if you decide that's a ridiculous example (and you might be right) then I guess you'd better stop reading and go pick fruit somewhere for minimum wage, because if you don't then you're "leaving money on the table".

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, kye said:

One saying I keep reminding myself and other people of is "Can doesn't mean should, and should doesn't mean will".

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...  otherwise we'd all have to murder everyone.  Or, if you decide that's a ridiculous example (and you might be right) then I guess you'd better stop reading and go pick fruit somewhere for minimum wage, because if you don't then you're "leaving money on the table".

 

$60 an hour for fruit picker during the lockdown, that was good money 😆

https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/300551480/60-an-hour-to-pick-fruit-kiwifruit-industry-desperate-for-workers

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Another point that is bothering me right now: the lack of testing some details point, coupled together with (looks like) the companies refusing to answer some technical details. Some examples:

- Electronic shutter for stills: what are the penalties, if any, besides rolling shutter? In the past, I remember some smaller Panasonics reverting to a lower bit depth when using it. Tested in my current cameras, the RAWs have the full bit depth, but it is real bit depth or less bits wrapped in a bigger bit depth "container"? There is a dynamic range penalty? Never find a correct (and justified) answer.

- Always is said that a 4k image downsampled from a larger read in camera render a better image than a 4k crop of the sensor. Looks logical - but why the image quality from the Open Gate cameras (hence, using a 1:1 readout of the sensor) are showing no image penalty?

- Which cameras have (or not) plug-in power for using external mics? Good luck to find out.

Every review is the same topics over and over. Taking the X-S20 for example: no one mentioned that the Face / Eye AF is not only better, but is totaly different than before, you have to use is a very different way. No comparison between the penalties of using lower data bitrates - is 360mbps and 200mbps much different? Or 10-bit 4:2:2 and 10-bit 4:2:0 - I've discovered this is a HUGE topic for Windows users this week, because Nvidia cards only have decoders for 10 bit 4:2:0, you could have the best RTX 4xxx card and your 10 bit 4:2:2 footage will only decode using CPU; and only the newer Intels CPUs with iGpu have hardware decoders 10 bit 4:2:2.

Everything is very shallow. 

[ntblowz]

7 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Every review is the same topics over and over. Taking the X-S20 for example: no one mentioned that the Face / Eye AF is not only better, but is totaly different than before, you have to use is a very different way. No comparison between the penalties of using lower data bitrates - is 360mbps and 200mbps much different? Or 10-bit 4:2:2 and 10-bit 4:2:0 - I've discovered this is a HUGE topic for Windows users this week, because Nvidia cards only have decoders for 10 bit 4:2:0, you could have the best RTX 4xxx card and your 10 bit 4:2:2 footage will only decode using CPU; and only the newer Intels CPUs with iGpu have hardware decoders 10 bit 4:2:2.

Everything is very shallow. 

The Apple M1 does 4:2:2 10bit on hardware hence even the basic mac mini can play and edit those 4:2:2 10bit hevc smoothly.  But yeah newer Intel CPU with iGPU make editing those more smoother.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

12 hours ago, ntblowz said:

The Apple M1 does 4:2:2 10bit on hardware hence even the basic mac mini can play and edit those 4:2:2 10bit hevc smoothly.  But yeah newer Intel CPU with iGPU make editing those more smoother.

Yep - will upgrade my computer on Black Friday, and heavily thinking about a Mini M1 or M2. But there is some hurdles:

- I use 3 monitors - not exactly for photo / video editing, but for my (real) work. Rarely use the 3 simultaneously on one computer - generally 2 are on one computer and one on another - but today I can use the 3 if needeed and manage it by software. With a M1 or M2, or I got a Pro model (which is more more expensive), or have to manage it using a HDMI switch (using 2 monitors max) or some gizmos that I found.

- Software issues: some softwares that I use do not have Mac versions, one specifically recently got one but somewhat limited compared to the Windows one. Guess I could use it with Parallels, but have to see.

- Price: Buy it from Apple here is out of question - the Mac Mini M2 price is almost 140% higher than in US (yep, you see it right, 140%). From another channels, I could get it for a 100% increase. In fact, is MUCH cheaper to get a round trip ticket plane from Brazil to USA and buy the computer...

Considering internal prices, in fact, for the estimated price of my upgrade, i could get and used Mini M1. Since my old computer is completely fine for everything that I need except video editing, and since it is old, the resell value is very low, maybe I will keep it and use the Mac only when doing photo / video editing...