Lumix dual native ISO

[MrSMW]

I understand it perfectly ie, 640 is the first native for the cleanest image and 4000 is the second so ideally stick to one of those such as 640 outdoors and 4000 inside.

But what is dual native iso setting in the menu?

Options are: Auto, Low, High

I presumed that set to Auto, using Auto ISO, the camera will choose either 640 or 4000 depending on the available light…but that does not seem to be the case as using Auto ISO, it will be anywhere between 640-6400 (the upper limit I set).

I’ve always just set it manually to either 640 if outdoors or 4000 if in, using Vlog, but I cannot find any info on-line?

There are dozens of videos etc from Panasonic and others that explain what dual native iso is, ie, 640 base, gets noisier, cleans up again at 4000 before getting noisier again, which is easy to understand.

But beyond that, I can’t find any info…

My question is, just continue to manually choose 640 or 4000, or is there some kind of auto setting where the camera will go to the most appropriate?

Or possibly I am over-thinking it.

Or possibly I missing some bit of info and the penny will drop.

Cheers Lumix buddies.

[Roger]

If it works the same as in the GH5S you can see how in this video below. The low and high setting just limit the ISO to the the low or high native iso chip.

Auto just means it use the whole range of ISO in the camera and change circuit when reaching 4000 in V-log.

It won't go to the most appropriate setting for minimal noise it just works as standard Auto ISO, the camera chooses the ISO that fits your exposure settings.

On the S5 I can't choose low och high. It always has the whole range.

I use manual ISO when filming and in V-log I use 640 up to about 2500, if I need to go higher i often use 4000 and up rather than 3200 because 4000 is a little bit cleaner.

In the S5 the dual native ISO works like this:
Normal picture profiles: 100 and 640 ISO
V-Log: 640 and 4000 ISO
HLG: 400 and 2500 ISO
Cinelike D2/V2: 200 and 1250 ISO

 

[MrSMW]

Thanks @Roger watched that one. I have watched them all!

I still don’t get it…

I understand the Low setting and the High setting but not the Auto setting which if it is basically the same as for stills, the camera chooses anything from your min to max setting which for me with Vlog is 640-6400.

So what exactly is the point of it if it uses anything between 640 and 6400 and doesn’t set itself to either 640 or 4000 and those two values only?

That sounds to me like something labelled an ‘automatic gearbox’ but you need to change gears manually. Huh? You mean it’s a manual gearbox?!

Surely just manually setting (as I have always done) either 640 or 4000 is the best option?

Assuming using shutter angle and VND, other than aperture, exposure is purely controlled by the use of that VND with a fixed ISO.

For me, outdoors, 640. Indoors 4000. 

But what is this setting ‘Dual Native ISO Setting’ that is not the high or low setting actually doing?

Unless… despite it apparently fluctuating anywhere between 640-6400 and giving me readings such as 800,1600,3200 or 6400 on the monitor display, it is behind the scenes as it were, actually only recording either 640 or 4000 and you just have to trust that it is?

If this is the case, then great and that is the answer, though I have not been able to find any human or otherwise answer to this on this planet or off-World to date.

If however, it’s actually recording 800 or 1600 or 3200 or 6400, it’s just recording at those actual ISO’s then yes it’s an ‘auto ISO’ setting, but not an ‘auto native ISO’ setting.

Or again, maybe I am missing something…

 

[Roger]

The only thing the dual native ISO auto setting does is that it opens up the whole range and automatically change the circuit when you reach 4000. That is how it works on the S5. I cant change that.

Auto ISO and dual native ISO auto setting is to different things. I'll try to explain the best I can 🙂

When you are using manual ISO:

Think of the dual ISO like a manual gearbox with a high and a low setting. The low setting is gear 1 to 3 and the high setting is 4 to 6. If you use the low setting, you can only use 1, 2 and 3 (in the camera that is 640-3200) and if set to high you can only use 4, 5 and 6 (in the camera that is 4000-51200). If you use the auto (in camera that is dual native ISO auto setting) you can use 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 (in the camera that is 640-51200).

But the camera also has a auto ISO setting which make the manual gearbox automatic but you still have the choice of low, high and auto dual ISO settings.

If you use auto ISO in the low setting it will use 640-3200 based on your exposure settings, it will never go higher than 3200. The same with the high setting but it will only use 4000-51200.
In the dual ISO auto setting it would use the whole range 640-51200 based on your exposure settings.

The camera doesn't care that 4000 is cleaner than 3200, it only choose the ISO to match your exposure settings.

The camera is recording at the value you set, 800 is 800, 1600 is 1600 and so on. It's the same as a camera without dual native ISO.

Check this video from DP Journey, he shows how the it works in the S5 and how to get the best noise performance.
His conclusion for minimal noise in the image is to use 640-1250 or 4000-6400. Check the charts in the video.

I hope this helps 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrSMW]

All makes sense and I think the conclusion is ‘Dual Native Auto ISO’ doesn’t work how I thought/hoped it might so will stick with 640 or 4000 with the variable for exposure being the use of the VND.

However, based on that video (seen, but a while back), I might manually use those ranges he suggested of 640-1250 and 4000-6400 because sometimes, the native 640 or 4000 are not quite ‘enough’.

I do have these things set as C3-1 (outdoor) and C3-2 (indoor) already with a fixed ISO and tweaked WB for each based on the baked in (shock horror) Phantom LUT that I use.

C3-3 is Flat profile for when it’s really dark and Vlog at 4000 even without the VND is not enough.

It’s a pity you can’t dial in and define your own auto range and default though, but maybe there is not enough demand for that kind of thing or the tech does not exist?

At least I’m not going to be quite so rigid about sticking religiously with 640 and 4000 and will give those ranges a try.

The Phantom LUT recommendation by the way is neutral exposure but actually I don’t agree and find that +1 is generally  a better result. But it depends on the scene of course and the highlights and yada yada…

Thanks for your input @Roger 👍

[Roger]

I'm glad it all make sense, to bad it doesn't work the way you want.

I use C3-1 to C3-8 for all my video use and have different settings, color profiles, framrates, internal and external recording etc. I love that you can have up to 10 settings on the C3, very handy.

I use C1 and C2 for photography.

I'm happy to help 🙂

[MrSMW]

Same set up here: C1 & 2 photo and all the C3’s, video scenarios.