Panasonic G9 mk2

[Emanuel]

7 minutes ago, sanveer said:

The G9ii is similar in size to the S1ii, both of which would be enormous as travel cameras. The Sony A6700 may be a better bet for travel. As long as you don't need the absolute best video quality for it, that should do for most situations. 

OK. And glass?

  

[kye]

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah, so why buy a GH6 now? It's f***ed!

It's a nice tool, but also something of a strange move unless GH7 coming with PDAF just around the corner.

I suspect that a GH7 (and maybe a new GX camera) are just around the corner.

One thing that people don't seem to understand is how long the lead times are on hardware product development.  It's not unheard of for companies to be working on a 4-year lead time.  For new sensors, probably add another 2 years.

It could very well have been that the GH6 was already 2 years into development (especially sensor development) when the market soured over CDAF and decided that FF was the only way to shoot anything, but by the time that happened they'd have been too far into the development of the new sensor to back out.  They would also have known at that point that the dual-gain sensor didn't have a crazy DR advantage either.  

BUT, at that point they might have decided to use the GH6 sensor for a generation of all their lineup (or family of sensors - this one has PDAF so did they develop it at the same time as the GH6 sensor?), but they might have decided then to go back to the normal dual-native ISO architecture.

So, the forums could all have been screaming incoherently about Panasonic not having good AF for two years before the GH6 came out, then had kittens over Panasonic not listening, when not only did they have this PDAF sensor in the pipeline, but they might have even changed back to normal PDAF dual native ISO sensor architecture years before that.

People just assume that camera companies sit around listening (or not listening) to everyone and then in 2 weeks slap together a camera, then people are all yelling "I told you this three weeks ago - why didn't you listen to me?!?!?!".

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Even for the old guard, you’d have to be pretty attached to that native lens collection to go in again.

If people hadn't have thrown their MFT cameras out of the pram then they wouldn't have to "go in again", they'd have just been waiting calmly on the sidelines and seeing what dropped from above that was useful.

To be honest, lots of folks looked pretty silly jumping up and down about how the same cameras that were revolutionary a few years earlier were now completely unusable, and that even the whole format was unusable...  climbing over themselves for more resolution while the world transitioned to viewing content on 5" 720p displays! 😂😂😂

[Emanuel]

I am very happy with these news.

Has anyone here used the SIRUI MFT anamorphics*?

Now try to find something more affordable but for same results...

EAG :- )

 

* Disclaimer: I have the full set.

[sanveer]

13 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

OK. And glass?

I believe there are a few smaller lenses available in many formats. Previously only M43 had like tiny lenses, like the famous 20mm f1.7. So, glass shouldn't be an issue. 

[sanveer]

9 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I am very happy with these news.

Has anyone here used the SIRUI MFT anamorphics*?

Now try to find something more affordable but for same results...

EAG :- )

 

* Disclaimer: I have the full set.

Wish there were Anamorphic Lenses with autofocus 😁

[Emanuel]

8 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I believe there are a few smaller lenses available in many formats. Previously only M43 had like tiny lenses, like the famous 20mm f1.7. So, glass shouldn't be an issue. 

Correct. But glass is still what I love going along this format. No other one matches the most affordable and smallest variety of glass options we can find. Let alone from slow to fastest ones. Always light and convenient. It's a hell of a format. Everything or almost, even PL mount, LOMOs, anamorphics and so on, fits there. Therefore, FF look too ;- )

[sanveer]

Just now, Emanuel said:

Correct. But glass is still what I love going along this format. No other one matches the most affordable and smallest variety of glass options we can find. Let alone from slow to fastest ones. Always light and convenient. It's a hell of a format. Everything or almost, even PL mount, LOMOs, anamorphics and so on fits there.

True. I wish some of the f0.95 M43 glass would re-emerge. At one point there were so many f.095 M43 lenses around. I secretly even hoped for an autofocus version, solely because it would be a little easier to use at night. And at that aperture level, it looked very ... Full Framish 😉

[Emanuel]

Indeed. I completely understand you. This is one of my wishes for coming one of next Christmas... : D

 

 

[SRV1981]

33 minutes ago, sanveer said:

As long as you don't need the absolute best video quality for it, that should do for most situations. 

Thanks, could you clarify or unpack this for me? 

[Emanuel]

3 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Thanks, could you clarify or unpack this for me? 

There are better acquisition devices IQ-wise out there :- )

[kye]

57 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Wish there were Anamorphic Lenses with autofocus 😁

Panasonic has partnered with DJI to integrate their LIDAR technology, which when coupled with a focus motor, can do AF on any manual focus lens.

The technology is coming.

Ironically, if Panasonic releases this soon, they'll be the only manufacturer who provides easy AF on MF lenses, and then we'll see if all the Sony/Canon PDAF folks obsessed with plant-eye-detect-AF switch over because Panasonic would have the best AF in town....

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

That LC-1 they did way back when was a handsome bastard so I'd definitely like to see a modern version.

My wish also…

At heart, I prefer to shoot a pair of rangefinderesque bodies with primes, for stills and ‘whatever’ for video.

Went from great chonky D3S bodies with the 24-70 and 70-200 to a pair of X-Pro1’s with the trinity of original zooms.

The penny dropped for me in 2012 or whenever that was.

They were a bit slow being honest and the X-Pro2 made up for that and was probably the period in my career when I felt the happiest with the tools I was using.

Then Sigma has disappointed twice with the original FP and then the L, both of which have too many shortcomings for me for stills or video.

So Lumix, Leica, Sigma, I don’t care which L Mount member wishes to do it, but first one to make a modern iteration of the LC1 or RD1, has my money.

I would have gone X-Pro3 except they stuffed up the rear screen for me 😏

The perfect unit for me would be the current X100V but with interchangeable lenses such and I’d even consider a zoom like Sigmas 18-50 (27-75) f2.8. Or fixed lens like the one in the LC1 which was what, 28-90 or something?

They never seem to make ‘my’ camera… Or rather they do, but then abandon the line 🤨

[Davide DB]

6 hours ago, sanveer said:

I believe there are a few smaller lenses available in many formats. Previously only M43 had like tiny lenses, like the famous 20mm f1.7. So, glass shouldn't be an issue. 

All the tiny lens are not updated anymore. Kit lens and new ones are huge.

In this regard Pana failed to comply with the original M43 promise.

[sanveer]

42 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

All the tiny lens are not updated anymore. Kit lens and new ones are huge.

In this regard Pana failed to comply with the original M43 promise.

I have to agree with you. M43 had some kickass lenses. Like the tiny 12-32mm zoom with OIS, and the 20mm f1.7 prime. I wonder if an addition to the zoom, for more reach perhaps like a 32-85mm could be created. Though, only if it were a collapsible pancake zoom. 

[sanveer]

6 hours ago, kye said:

Panasonic has partnered with DJI to integrate their LIDAR technology, which when coupled with a focus motor, can do AF on any manual focus lens.

The technology is coming.

Ironically, if Panasonic releases this soon, they'll be the only manufacturer who provides easy AF on MF lenses, and then we'll see if all the Sony/Canon PDAF folks obsessed with plant-eye-detect-AF switch over because Panasonic would have the best AF in town....

That would be great. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

All the tiny lens are not updated anymore. Kit lens and new ones are huge.

In this regard Pana failed to comply with the original M43 promise.

If the lenses were already good then maybe there was no reason to update them?

It depends on if you do stills or video, but in higher-end moving images the best lenses aren't the razor sharp ones, they're ones with a bit of diffusion and a bit of character.  You might be chasing the latest sharpest fastest lenses, but if you're interested in a higher-end look, then that's not the way to go.  Often the mid-range MFT lenses have a good amount of the right optical aberrations.  I spoke about that here:

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/58706-a-manifesto-for-the-humble-zoom-lens/

For example, look at the following 4 shots:

Two look sharp and detailed with lots of contrast and saturation and two look more vintage.

The two that look sharp/modern are the Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 zoom and the Voigtlander 42.5mm F0.95 prime, both expensive lenses.  The two that look more vintage are the mythical Helios 44-2 58mm F2 lens, and the other is the 14-42 kit lens, sitting somewhere in-between the modern and vintage looks.

The kit lens is easily accessible, it's a zoom lens, it has OIS, it has AF, and it's dirt cheap.  You can also combine it with diffusion filters to customise the amount of contrast etc.  In many ways, it's better than the 12-35mm f2.8 and better than the Helios.

[PannySVHS]

7 hours ago, Emanuel said:

There are better acquisition devices IQ-wise out there :- )

Classy classic EAG!😂

[Davide DB]

Sorry Kye, I agree but I have to disagree 🙂

I always forget to include a disclaimer that I use the M43 system underwater 99% of the time. My fault.

Unless those rare cases where you are looking for an artistic effect, underwater, "razor sharp" is ALWAYS better.

Now the best underwater imaging is achieved with additional wet lenses. These are designed to work with specific focal lengths and diameters. For example, this one is designed for the 14mm. With a 12mm it vignettes.

A 1,3 Kg chunk of glass

https://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-scuba-ocean-news/nauticam-releases-next-generation-wet-wide-lens-wwl-1b

Unfortunately, the only M43 compatible lenses are the two old 14-42mm. Discontinued lenses that have never been updated because the equally mediocre and perhaps three times as large 12-60 now goes. The 14-42mm (also the PZ pancake version) is very good up to 20mm then the definition degrades a lot and with two wet lenses in front the effect is very evident.
The 12-35 is the most beautiful lens I have ever used underwater but unfortunately it is too narrow* and too wide when inserted behind a wet lens.

* Lens FOV behind a dome decrease a lot: https://www.subspace.ch/uw-optics-expertise

To conclude this rant that no one will give a damn about....
I agree with @Andrew Reidwhen he writes:

Quote

The GH1 and GH2 were typically Japanese and quirky, lovely to use. Then the American Panasonic team got involved and we got the stale GH3.

Same applies to lens too. I would like to have a 14-42 pancake marked Leica.
It's crazy that a GH5 with 12-60mm is bigger than a Sony FX3 with the 28-60mm. Sony FE 28-60mm is becoming the new underwater standard to be use with wet lens.

[PannySVHS]

If the G9 II offers the same creamy but of course high resolving image as the Gh5 II (their common index II should dictate that!:) plus the Dual Gain color reproduction and dynamic range from the GH6, then we might have the best film camera in the m43 and possibly apsc realm reagarding image, ergos and versatility.

Despite some having half stop dynamic range here or half iso stop there, this might be the best overall film image under 2000 Eu/Usd, beating the S Line for motion, color and creamyniss. Would  be an obvious and easy thing with Panas tech in current and sister cameras. IF 😊

[BTM_Pix]

9 hours ago, kye said:

If people hadn't have thrown their MFT cameras out of the pram then they wouldn't have to "go in again", they'd have just been waiting calmly on the sidelines and seeing what dropped from above that was useful.

Not sure why you are couching it in such dramatic terms as people throwing their cameras out of the pram.

There were no hissy fits and not all the old camera were disposed of, rather that the more the new cameras moved away from the original ethos the less inclined people like me were to replace their old ones.

I didn't stop buying new Lumix MFT cameras post the GX80 in some fit of pique, its because the form factor of the new ones became increasingly at odds with the point of the system.

The system appealed as a much smaller alternative to the bulkier FF and APS-C DSLRs that I had so I was less inclined to buy the newer ones as they began to expand and, of course, this became even more acute when mirrorless FF and APS-C cameras started to come down and meet them in the middle.

I didn't mind making the compromise on IQ and low light when it was traded off for size but once that size increased then its advantages as a system went the other way.

9 hours ago, kye said:

To be honest, lots of folks looked pretty silly jumping up and down about how the same cameras that were revolutionary a few years earlier were now completely unusable

I didn't and haven't stopped using mine but it has diminished with each passing year over the past five years.

Not because they have become unusable just that their USP is no longer anywhere near the U and there are better alternatives.

The lenses were always shared with the OG Pocket and Micro and the LS300 but have also found a new home with the P4K but absolutely nothing would tempt me into buying into a new MFT camera and new lenses.

I've just got three of my cameras out (GX80,S5ii and Fp) which have similar-ish focal length lenses to illustrate my broader point about MFT.

If the G9ii is - as I understand it - even anywhere close to the size one in the middle then a shark has not only been jumped but pole vaulted over.

Whilst the S5ii is the elephant in the room when it comes to a choice of buying into a new MFT camera, the Fp is the elephant in the room when it comes to where the system should have gone.

An updated GX80 with all the bells and whistles of the G9ii in a form factor somewhere between the GX80 and Fp (which lest we forget has a proper cooling system) would have made me interested as it fits with the original ethos.

The lenses are another example of where compact has gone with MFT when I look at a couple of my lenses.

They are not the same focal length but still it illustrates how the size has increased from the original ethos of those original pancake lenses like the 20mm here and the 14mm if you want to take the next step up.

And of course the Sigma here is actually pretty compact in relative terms to the latter primes and zooms from Panasonic.

8 hours ago, kye said:

Panasonic has partnered with DJI to integrate their LIDAR technology, which when coupled with a focus motor, can do AF on any manual focus lens.

The technology is coming.

Coming ?

It has been there in the DJI guise - and modesty forbids me to mention from another bijou manufacturer too - for well over three years.

With regard to anamorphic, the support for aligned multi motors means that the smaller manufacturer also provides AF for dual focus anamorphic setups 🙂 

All that Panasonic is doing with DJI for non manual lenses is basically what that other guy does with Blackmagic in that it uses the LIDAR to control the camera's internal focus motors. 

If Panasonic had opened their control protocol up in the same way as BMD then the other guy would have done the same for Panasonic cameras three years ago.

So they are playing catchup more than innovating to be honest.

The innovation would have been for Panasonic to integrate LIDAR into the cameras themselves.

8 hours ago, kye said:

Ironically, if Panasonic releases this soon, they'll be the only manufacturer who provides easy AF on MF lenses

Manufacturer maybe but Sony E and Nikon Z users have been able to do this for quite a few years using the TechART such as my A7Rii with a Voigtlander here.

In terms of "easy AF on MF lenses" it is actually much easier to use than an outboard LIDAR system too for several reasons as well.

It also brings me back to another comparison between that A7Rii and a GX80 with a similar f1.4 focal length lens.

Not only is the A7Rii full frame, it too also has IBIS too and the AF with that MF lens is far snappier than the MFT setup at a marginal overall size increase.

Maybe I actually should throw that GX80 out of the pram after all 😉