Panasonic G9 mk2

[BTM_Pix]

10 hours ago, kye said:

but when Sony releases yet another camera that overheats, or GoPro releases another doppelgänger camera with microscopic spec improvements, or whoever the hell else waits years and then releases an uninspiring black box, we don't then spontaneously question the future of the brand or the entire format.

 

I don't think anyone is questioning the future of Panasonic though ?

It is where they are at and/or heading within this specific format that is under discussion as they are in rude health within the FF market.

Again, the camera (which as I've said umpteen times looks very good) and the form/format are very different things.

The idea of a compact system that offers the "optimal balance of high image quality, compactness and lightweight in cameras with interchangeable lenses" to quote the actual MFT organisation itself is surely challenged when it becomes the same size as a full frame system from the same manufacturer.

10 hours ago, kye said:

If someone were to post in every Sony camera thread that FF was dead and Sony was going to exit the camera market because of the latest release then they'd be considered unhinged, but somehow with MFT every camera announcement is turned into a wake..

We need to examine the word 'dead' in the context of what it actually means to a camera system.

It isn't 'dead' as in the absolute discontinuation of all MFT products.

Which means it isn't yet 'dead' in terms of the stated ethos of it as a format by the MFT organisation as, if nothing else, BMD have just released a camera that actually fits within those aims. We also don't know whether Panasonic might also have a camera up their sleeves (or in their pocket) that will more closely align with that ethos.

I'd say that a more appropriate word, as it currently stands, would more likely be 'moribund'.

In a hippier time, it might be described as the 'scene' being 'dead' (man).

Indicating that what it was is not currently what it is.

But what it is might well work for many people so thats all fine too.

10 hours ago, kye said:

What will you use it for?

I was using it to provide some light relief to this thread 🙂

And to show my own innate hypocrisy and how you can't really rely on the meanderings of a random old fella on the internet.

10 hours ago, sanveer said:

I have to humbly Disagree with the idea that All M43 Cameras must be Tiny or Pocketable. That's Lucrous.

 

1 hour ago, Beritar said:

I agree and I think this idea is nonsense.

I emphatically agree with both of you that the notion of all MFT cameras having to be small is both a nonsense and ludicrous.

Which is why I haven't actually stated that.

Equally, the notion that all MFT cameras having to be the same size as a FF camera is also both a nonsense and ludicrous.

There is room for both.

Its just that Panasonic haven't released one for three years which was the ill fated (but actually not without its merits) G100.

With the 12-32m kit lens it was around £600 before it was discontinued and it really did fit with the ethos of MFT as we originally understood it and how the MFT organisation still describe it.

It showed that when motivated by hatred (Sony's dominance of the vlogging market) that Panasonic could still do it despite the intervening four years prior to that (the G80 launch) they had been making ever bigger bodies.

Time marches on, of course, and things change so if the price that has to be paid now (physically and literally) to move the story along from the G80 (which unlike the G100 had IBIS) in terms of video spec then so be it.

Of course, Panasonic are not the only MFT player in town so maybe Olympus will offer that alternative.

2 hours ago, Beritar said:

There are a few reasons :

- Neither my A7IV or S5II can give me the fantastic stabilization of the G9II with "relatively small" telephoto and super telephoto lenses.

- Neither of these FF cameras have an acceptable rolling shutter or 60fps Open Gate/120fps 4K. Yes, the A7SIII has good rolling shutter and it has 4K 120fps, but there are always trade-off (much more expensive, low MP, no crop mode,worse details in 4K 120fps).

- While they are a lot of really excellent lenses of the FE mount and a few on the L mount, m43 has a lot of jewels as well. 

Yes, the extra reach of the 100-400 on MFT would need the Sigma 150-600 to equal on FF L mount which results in a significant size disadvantage.

This is an example where it makes sense both as a format in general anyway but also as a camera itself, if the price to pay for that performance has to be that form factor.

Thus far, it appears that it must because there is no alternative with that spec.

Maybe I will pre-order one after all 😂

[BTM_Pix]

On 9/21/2023 at 3:15 PM, IronFilm said:

Got to up your offer even further! Let your daughter borrow a Fujifilm GFX100 

I found the breaking point.

Fuji Instax Mini Evo.

I don't actually own one so will have to buy it when we get there.

A bit of a Pyrrhic vvictory then but in the battle of wills with your kids you'll take whatever win you can.

[kye]

15 hours ago, Beritar said:

No, we can't get the FF look at some focal lenghts (like the 50mm GM f1.2) with our m43 cameras and lenses. 

Great post and well made points.

I'd suggest that MFT is more suitable for any form of film-making that is focused on story/plot/emotion/meaning because it protects you from moronic ideas like shooting with a 50mm lens at maximum TONEH, which beyond shooting a scene where someone is on serious drugs, is creatively inappropriate.

[soundknight21]

I totally agree. I got in as a dad enthusiast trying to get great image quality from something not pro in price but with clever pocketable design. There's no way a sane person will hold the g9ii in their hands at the store sitting next to the S5ii and not jump ship or just put it down and look up a second hand GX series... For me the turning point was when they released the GX85/9 instead of a GX8ii... The GX8 ii was the coolest looking camera they ever made visually with great tactile buttons, grip and perhaps just a tad too large. 

Really pana should have kept going in the way you said except they should have also developed the phone/camera networking hub that allows you to connect an Android phone to the back of a proper camera and lens package. I have the G9i, GX9 and GX8. The G9 takes generally the best photos and video but I enjoy using the GX8 much more and the best photos I've ever taken just so happen to be taken on my GX8 so maybe the experience of shooting matters most?? I Hate the GX9, bad grip, average battery life, tiny viewfinder. The G9 is too large but it pays its way with great video and industry leading tactile controls and function buttons. 

[soundknight21]

18 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I found the breaking point.

Fuji Instax Mini Evo.

I don't actually own one so will have to buy it when we get there.

A bit of a Pyrrhic vvictory then but in the battle of wills with your kids you'll take whatever win you can.

My son has that camera, we both live it. It makes me think of specialist cameras like the wide format film beasts, there was a YT vid I saw recently that taught you how to convert a certain modern camera into a wide format beast. If love that. 

[soundknight21]

18 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I don't think anyone is questioning the future of Panasonic though ?

It is where they are at and/or heading within this specific format that is under discussion as they are in rude health within the FF market.

Again, the camera (which as I've said umpteen times looks very good) and the form/format are very different things.

The idea of a compact system that offers the "optimal balance of high image quality, compactness and lightweight in cameras with interchangeable lenses" to quote the actual MFT organisation itself is surely challenged when it becomes the same size as a full frame system from the same manufacturer.

We need to examine the word 'dead' in the context of what it actually means to a camera system.

It isn't 'dead' as in the absolute discontinuation of all MFT products.

Which means it isn't yet 'dead' in terms of the stated ethos of it as a format by the MFT organisation as, if nothing else, BMD have just released a camera that actually fits within those aims. We also don't know whether Panasonic might also have a camera up their sleeves (or in their pocket) that will more closely align with that ethos.

I'd say that a more appropriate word, as it currently stands, would more likely be 'moribund'.

In a hippier time, it might be described as the 'scene' being 'dead' (man).

Indicating that what it was is not currently what it is.

But what it is might well work for many people so thats all fine too.

I was using it to provide some light relief to this thread 🙂

And to show my own innate hypocrisy and how you can't really rely on the meanderings of a random old fella on the internet.

 

I emphatically agree with both of you that the notion of all MFT cameras having to be small is both a nonsense and ludicrous.

Which is why I haven't actually stated that.

Equally, the notion that all MFT cameras having to be the same size as a FF camera is also both a nonsense and ludicrous.

There is room for both.

Its just that Panasonic haven't released one for three years which was the ill fated (but actually not without its merits) G100.

With the 12-32m kit lens it was around £600 before it was discontinued and it really did fit with the ethos of MFT as we originally understood it and how the MFT organisation still describe it.

It showed that when motivated by hatred (Sony's dominance of the vlogging market) that Panasonic could still do it despite the intervening four years prior to that (the G80 launch) they had been making ever bigger bodies.

Time marches on, of course, and things change so if the price that has to be paid now (physically and literally) to move the story along from the G80 (which unlike the G100 had IBIS) in terms of video spec then so be it.

Of course, Panasonic are not the only MFT player in town so maybe Olympus will offer that alternative.

Yes, the extra reach of the 100-400 on MFT would need the Sigma 150-600 to equal on FF L mount which results in a significant size disadvantage.

This is an example where it makes sense both as a format in general anyway but also as a camera itself, if the price to pay for that performance has to be that form factor.

Thus far, it appears that it must because there is no alternative with that spec.

Maybe I will pre-order one after all 😂

Imagine getting the S5iix for low light wide to portrait (24-130) then getting an S-MFT adapter, cropping down the Sensor and shooting wildlife with the 100-400...

Would this work or am I missing something in the physics? 

[Emanuel]

Without mention Orson Welles came as a serious film player case in the history of this medium precisely when brought depth of field but not on the shallow side of the scope.

EAG :- )

 

[Beritar]

I just watched this video comparing the G9 to G9II autofocus.

Reading so much people in the comments saying the new AF is fantastic make me wonder they should just use 1080P cameras at best.
I downloaded the video to zoom inside a bit, and while the G9II focus faster than the G9, accuracy is much worse.
During the comparison with the 35-100mm, most of the time, the focus is not on his face but on his sweater (like at 2:26 or 3:36), making his face with even less details than a 1080P camera.
I saw the same issue with another G9II video when using the 12-35mm, 35-100mm and 10-25mm.

What the point to have a 4K camera with faster AF if the accuracy is not good ?

I wanted to pre-order the camera but I will wait to see if Panasonic can solve the issue. I had too much issue with my GH6 using Open Gate (much more pulsing than my GH5) or when using frame rates <48fps with most of my lenses (defocusing issue). Panasonic never corrected them.

 

[IronFilm]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:33 AM, BTM_Pix said:

(NB before the "ah but the top panel display" comments start its worth remembering that the G9MK2 doesn't have one now either)

And I'm sad about that! 😞

Even my first ever digital stills camera (the cheapie Nikon D50) had a top display! 

It's a big reason to go for a bigger body, to have the space for all that extra info to be displayed to you. 

 

On 9/26/2023 at 3:26 AM, kye said:

TBH, if we're going to judge everyone that didn't give us what they could have given us, we'd all better be saving up for an Alexa, because the people who worked on every other camera released in the history of the world are going in front of a firing squad tomorrow at dawn.

To be fair... we even can be extremely judgmental about the many moronic/weird design design decisions that ARRI cameras have had! To give a couple of quick examples: the dumb locations for the TC and Audio inputs on the ALEXA Mini 

On 9/26/2023 at 4:11 AM, sanveer said:

A Netflix Certification 😎

They'd only need to add TC support to it? There is nothing else major that it is missing? 

Panasonic BGH1 is on the list! (but I wonder why S1H, GH5S, and GH6 isn't on the list???) Hmmm... none of the Blackmagic Pockets are on the list either! 😕 

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000579527-Cameras-Image-Capture-Requirements-and-Best-Practices#h_01G6KEYFG76GRKVMJS382H5638 

Oh wait... its recording bit rates are too low? The specs say: 

4096 x 2160 at 23.98/24.00/25/29.97/47.95/50/59.94/100/120 fps [150 to 600 Mb/s] 

Netflix says:

Data Rate

Minimum 240Mbps at 24FPS 

On 9/26/2023 at 4:16 AM, BTM_Pix said:

So, when it comes to the G9MK2......can you make it make sense for me?

When you view it as something be to used for Birding / Sports photography with big chunky telephoto lenses such the Panasonic Leica DG Vario-Elmar 100-400mm f/4-6.3 ASPH. POWER O.IS., then the bulky G9 size kinda makes sense. 

I worry less about the G9's size, and worry more about the fact that the GX/GM/GF series hasn't been properly updated in donkey years (and that the G series seems to have lost its way). 

Having a big beefy G9mk2 is less of an issue if we're spoiled for choice with plenty of portable / compact little cute cameras for street photography / gig photography / casual shooting / tourist snaps / hiking / etc 

[IronFilm]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:16 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Or for charging £1K for a basic matte box.

Ummm... that seems too crazy cheap for a matte box setup from ARRI? 

I mean, you could go with just the matte box and nothing else:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1288783-REG/arri_k2_66124_0_mmb_2_mini_matte_box.html 

But that kinda defeats the purpose of having one? You need more. 

A basic setup (using smaller / cheaper 4x5 filters, not the 6x6 filters. And skinny 15mm rails, not standard studio 19mm rails) is five and a half grand:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1341045-REG/arri_kk_0015177_lmb_4x5_pro_set.html

Going for 6x6 filters and 19mm rails means over seven grand:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1438561-REG/arri_kk_0020233_lmb_6x6_pro_19mm.html

On 9/26/2023 at 1:03 PM, sanveer said:

I am comparing the GM5 to the Netflix Approved Sony FX3, the A7Siii, and the Fuji X100v.

Strangely the FX30 is not (yet??) on that list?? 

[sanveer]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Strangely the FX30 is not (yet??) on that list?? 

Maybe because they both (FX30 and FX3), have almost identical height, weight n depth.

 

 

[sanveer]

Just now, sanveer said:

Maybe because they both (FX30 and FX3), have almost identical height, weight n depth.

 

 

Or were you referring to the Netflix approved list? 

[IronFilm]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:28 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Fuji Instax Mini Evo.

What a weird and wild "hybrid camera"!!

(with a totally different meaning of the word "hybrid" than we normally use with cameras)

On 9/27/2023 at 6:34 PM, soundknight21 said:

Imagine getting the S5iix for low light wide to portrait (24-130) then getting an S-MFT adapter, cropping down the Sensor and shooting wildlife with the 100-400...

Would this work or am I missing something in the physics? 

You mean a MFT to L adapter. 

And sadly the mount flange depths means it won't work 😞

  

1 minute ago, sanveer said:

Maybe because they both (FX30 and FX3), have almost identical height, weight n depth.

I was meaning the Netflix list. 

 

Edit: 

Just now, sanveer said:

Or were you referring to the Netflix approved list? 

Yes!

[sanveer]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

6 minutes ago, sanveer said:

 

I was meaning the Netflix list. 

Actually even the FX3 only made it to the Netflix approved list, After the firmware update, removing SLog 2, maybe increasing bitrate(?), addition of Cine EI workflows, custom LUTs, and timecode sync. Maybe they're miasing on the FX30. And there may be an approval fee, which Sony doesn't wanna pay. 

[IronFilm]

4 minutes ago, sanveer said:

And there may be an approval fee, which Sony doesn't wanna pay. 

I'd guess it might be more likely there often needs to be first a push from a creative team (director/DP/producer) to get Netflix to add something to the list? 

And nobody has been pushing for the FX30 just yet to be added? 

[BTM_Pix]

9 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What a weird and wild "hybrid camera"!!

(with a totally different meaning of the word "hybrid" than we normally use with cameras)

Live from Tokyo

She even wanted it in hipster brown with the retro case to match.

The man who served me in MapCamera knows me from all my previous visits of excess and was expecting me to ask for a Z9 so was a bit weirded out !

 

[IronFilm]

10 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

ive from Tokyo

Give us a livestream! ha

10 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

She even wanted it in hipster brown with the retro case to match.

I want a brown retro case for my Fujifilm X-A3 too! Lost the case one night while out drinking, but phew, didn't lose the camera itself!!

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

The man who served me in MapCamera knows me from all my previous visits of excess and was expecting me to ask for a Z9 so was a bit weirded out !

Did he give you the same look the Berlin camera store gives me when I go in to rummage through their 5 euro trash lenses bucket?

If you come across any red or gold GH1 in map camera I would encourage you to splash out!! They are fun, especially with an F0.95 Voigtlander

You can recreate my Tokyo film with it, just be sure to apply the hack to make it true 24p and English menus!

[BTM_Pix]

15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Did he give you the same look the Berlin camera store gives me when I go in to rummage through their 5 euro trash lenses bucket?

Yeah, when they see you walking in they start rubbing their hands and when you walk out with nothing they end up stroking their chins!

15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

f you come across any red or gold GH1 in map camera I would encourage you to splash out!! They are fun, especially with an F0.95 Voigtlander

GH1 falls into that no man’s land of being too old for their customer’s to find appealing but still not yet old enough to be considered appealing as a retro purchase for them.

Basically it’s in the same ballpark as the base level Ford Sierra!

Hard Off have one in red with the 14-140 but it’s about £180 which is a bit steep I think.

Like I’ll have any money left anyway once the demands for twenty packs of Instax film a day situation kicks in tomorrow 

[Davide DB]

In the meantime, somewhere in Japan...

https://www.43rumors.com/ft3-new-gh6-successor-with-phase-detection-af-is-in-the-works-and-will-be-named-gh7-and-not-gh6ii/