Panasonic G9 mk2

[92F]

I don't really understand your intervention here...it should be in a topic dedicated to desires, dreams...I'm absolutely not asking all of that from a G9...you have to change the range of device.

Good day 

[TomTheDP]

Z-cam is developing a new M43 camera that they claim has a true 16 stops of dynamic range. This is more than what they have listed for their large format camera. I wonder if that sensor will be used in the GH7. 

Internal 444 and high dynamic range would make it an instant buy. I am close to buying the G9 MK2 as it already has everything I want though. 

[John Matthews]

Here's the rub as of today in France:

Option 1: G9 ii body for 1899 Euros (I have the lenses)

Option 2: S5 ii body + 20-60 + 50mm prime for only 2099 euros

What would you do?

[John Matthews]

5 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

2099

*2199, tax included

[MrSMW]

I’d ignore the 300 euro difference (pretend it does not exist or they were the same price) and then decide which suited my needs best.

If I had any of the f1.2 or 1.7 lenses, probably the G9.

If I shot an equal amount of stills and both stills and video in low light, the S5.

[John Matthews]

2 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I’d ignore the 300 euro difference (pretend it does not exist or they were the same price) and then decide which suited my needs best.

If I had any of the f1.2 or 1.7 lenses, probably the G9.

If I shot an equal amount of stills and both stills and video in low light, the S5.

That's helpful because I have a 17mm f/1.2, 9mm f/1.7, 75mm f/1.8, and the 40-150mm f/2.8. High ISO isn't that much of a problem for me as I've already got the DXO for photos and with the 9mm and 17mm, I can get decent stuff.

The problem would be going forward if I were to choose a S5ii as telephoto is expensive and heavy. The X-factor is of course my bad back.

Panasonic's pricing of the G9 ii is just a little high or the S5 ii is a little low IMO. It's dang hard to choose.

[kye]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Here's the rub as of today in France:

Option 1: G9 ii body for 1899 Euros (I have the lenses)

Option 2: S5 ii body + 20-60 + 50mm prime for only 2099 euros

What would you do?

I'd wait.  Both are far too large for me!

But for you, I'd say you should think about the total package, including lenses, batteries, accessories, etc, and work out what suits you and your workflow best.

TBH, the camera body probably matters least out of everything...

[John Matthews]

3 hours ago, kye said:

I'd wait.  Both are far too large for me!

But for you, I'd say you should think about the total package, including lenses, batteries, accessories, etc, and work out what suits you and your workflow best.

TBH, the camera body probably matters least out of everything...

Yes, I understand. Waiting would also make some sense.

The G9 ii would be even better for me if it were just a little smaller, but, then again, I have a smaller camera too with smaller lenses. I think Panasonic has done away with all the really small (GX850, GM1, which keep gaining price on the used market) and they've gone with smallish like the GX85 and GX9. Something tells me they might come out with a rangefinder camera soon and it will have PDAF and decent video features, but that size camera won't work for my bigger lenses either whereas the G9 ii or GH7 would. The S5 ii would be super for interior stuff, but I don't want to sink 1000 euros on a telephone with AF. Also, I'd never use it because it's too big.

The one thing that bugs me about the S5 ii is possible moiré. I've never seen it on the GH6 and I bet the G9 ii will be the same. The GH6 has been a little too quirky for me in that DR Boost needed to be set on or off. I don't like that.

[John Matthews]

48 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

telephone

*telephoto

[92F]

If you focus on stability and autofocus and wide angle, cheaper and lighter lenses...the G9 II surely ?

Otherwise if the sensitivity and creative capabilities of the FF interest you the S5 II , but overall it will be more expensive and bulky... 

And wait for in-depth tests on the sensitivity of the G9II ?

[MrSMW]

What about a used OM-1?

I had one in for test and loved the size, weight, handling, build…everything really other than that it was 4/3rds.

Nothing against 4/3rds per se but for my work, I think it would have niggled at the back of my mind continually.

If I did not have the needs I have, hands down easily I’d pick the OM-1 over anything else. Even the G9ii. 

[John Matthews]

24 minutes ago, 92F said:

If you focus on stability and autofocus and wide angle, cheaper and lighter lenses...the G9 II surely ?

Otherwise if the sensitivity and creative capabilities of the FF interest you the S5 II , but overall it will be more expensive and bulky... 

And wait for in-depth tests on the sensitivity of the G9II ?

Yeah, I've said for such a long time I would not go FF again. As I said, back issues will keep me from it. I've already got all the lenses; staying with M43 makes more sense. Also, slow motion is more important for me than the high ISO capabilities in video (as I can add lights) and 1/3 of a stop I'd gain in DOF (Olympus 17mm f/1.2 on M43 vs Panasonic 35mm f/1.8 on FF).

The G9ii will drop in price too, but I might just pull the trigger. The only thing that's going to stop me is a GH7 with variable ND (IN ALL MODES, including slow motion); in which case, I sell the G9 ii and get the GH7. I wish Panasonic would tease us more with specs.

23 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

What about a used OM-1?

I had one in for test and loved the size, weight, handling, build…everything really other than that it was 4/3rds.

Nothing against 4/3rds per se but for my work, I think it would have niggled at the back of my mind continually.

If I did not have the needs I have, hands down easily I’d pick the OM-1 over anything else. Even the G9ii. 

I failed to mention the slow-mo capabilities matter to me. The GH6 has been soooo good with that.

[IronFilm]

On 10/24/2023 at 6:18 PM, John Matthews said:

PDAF will no longer be enough for a GH7. I'm guessing they're going to find a body form-factor for a S1H ii and GH7 that works. The eND will be on both.

 

And the Panasonic BS1H mk2 will have eND too I hope!

Along with most important of all..... zero delay SDI output!!
 

On 10/24/2023 at 6:52 PM, kye said:

• Support for more than 2 channels of audio

Panasonic GH6 already can do 4 channels of audio

On 10/24/2023 at 6:52 PM, kye said:

• Clean HDMI out

Clean and info overlays at once! Give us two independent outputs please. 

  

10 hours ago, John Matthews said:

That's helpful because I have a 17mm f/1.2, 9mm f/1.7, 75mm f/1.8, and the 40-150mm f/2.8. High ISO isn't that much of a problem for me as I've already got the DXO for photos and with the 9mm and 17mm, I can get decent stuff.

The problem would be going forward if I were to choose a S5ii as telephoto is expensive and heavy. The X-factor is of course my bad back.

With your personal circumstances of:

1) a sweet MFT lens collection

2) a want/need for telephoto lenses, but with a back/bank that can't necessarily match your wants/needs

...then I'd go with the Panasonic G9mk2 

[Beritar]

I've found this interesting video comparing the G9II to some Nikon, Fuji and Sony cameras.
IBIS looks fantastic on the G9II, colors look as great as the GH6 and focus is very fast with the 12-60mm PL.

However, exactly like my GH6 in low light (and my S5II with most PP), I really don't like the details rendering of the G9II.
On the video, the woman has freckles and it's perfect to see the rendering of fine details. What I see is a a mix of smoothing and sharpening resulting in a very bad image (especially when cropping) in my opinion.
The Nikon cameras are even worse. Fine details are totally destroyed, exactly like on my good old Samsung NX1.
I'm glad I never bought Nikon cameras for video.
Sony is Sony, as always, the rolling shutter is bad, the IBIS is average, but the details rendering is much closer than what we had on the first gen S1 and S5, much closer to a raw picture without artifice.

It's always nice to see the IBIS, rolling shutter AF etc compared, but for me one of the most important thing is the pure image quality, including colors and details.
I understand some people like very soft image in video, but to my eyes the G9II (and the Z9/Z8) just doesn't look good, of course YMMV.
 

 

[John Matthews]

25 minutes ago, Beritar said:

I've found this interesting video comparing the G9II to some Nikon, Fuji and Sony cameras.
IBIS looks fantastic on the G9II, colors look as great as the GH6 and focus is very fast with the 12-60mm PL.

However, exactly like my GH6 in low light (and my S5II with most PP), I really don't like the details rendering of the G9II.
On the video, the woman has freckles and it's perfect to see the rendering of fine details. What I see is a a mix of smoothing and sharpening resulting in a very bad image (especially when cropping) in my opinion.
The Nikon cameras are even worse. Fine details are totally destroyed, exactly like on my good old Samsung NX1.
I'm glad I never bought Nikon cameras for video.
Sony is Sony, as always, the rolling shutter is bad, the IBIS is average, but the details rendering is much closer than what we had on the first gen S1 and S5, much closer to a raw picture without artifice.

It's always nice to see the IBIS, rolling shutter AF etc compared, but for me one of the most important thing is the pure image quality, including colors and details.
I understand some people like very soft image in video, but to my eyes the G9II (and the Z9/Z8) just doesn't look good, of course YMMV.
 

 

That was an interesting comparison but also rather limited being at some show. The conclusion for him was to say the FX30 was the best because, even though it lacks good IBIS, the "photos are amazing" and costs a little less. I'm finding that rather curious because FX30 lacks an actual shutter, meaning it can't even do flash photography, a basic feature for almost any "photo" camera... maybe it can, but I couldn't find any info on it. Also, he talks about M43 not doing well in low-light, which is not accurate due to their amazing IBIS (maybe he meant "high ISO"?). That was a very confusing review for me.

As far as "detail rendering", I never had any problem with the GH6; nor did I notice anything. Maybe if you A-B with another camera, it's different. If anything, I'd say the trouble with GH6 is the implementation of DR Boost. The rolling shutter on the GH6 was definitely NOT an issue either, especially with IBIS enabled.

[MrSMW]

54 minutes ago, Beritar said:

It's always nice to see the IBIS, rolling shutter AF etc compared, but for me one of the most important thing is the pure image quality, including colors and details.

Assuming a certain ‘basic’ spec for my needs, this is why despite moving back to Nikon for stills, I am remaining (for the time being at least…) with Lumix for my video needs and probably S1H over S5ii as my principal video unit as the output is quantifiable better.

My own personal jury is still out on Nikon for video as I have not explored it yet.

[ac6000cw]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

The one thing that bugs me about the S5 ii is possible moiré. I've never seen it on the GH6 and I bet the G9 ii will be the same.

That's one major reason I decided against an S5 ii - the others were the size & weight of long telephoto lenses and the APS-C crop in 4k50p/4k60p (I normally shoot everything in 50p, so it would effectively be an APS-C video camera for me).

So sixth months ago I looked seriously at more upmarket APS-C cameras for video instead, but having played with an R7 and an XH2s I decided they felt too large and/or awkward in my hands (the Sony A6700 wasn't announced then, and the FX30 has no viewfinder so ruled out). Then the XS20 was announced and I pre-ordered it... but before deliveries started a used OM-1 turned up at a really good price so I bought it and cancelled the XS20 order.

So in the end the fact that I already had micro4/3 lenses and the OM-1 just feels 'right' in my hands (and is weather sealed, with top-notch IBIS and a lovely 5.76M dot EVF) kept me in the micro4/3 world a while longer...

[John Matthews]

25 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

That's one major reason I decided against an S5 ii - the others were the size & weight of long telephoto lenses and the APS-C crop in 4k50p/4k60p (I normally shoot everything in 50p, so it would effectively be an APS-C video camera for me).

So sixth months ago I looked seriously at more upmarket APS-C cameras for video instead, but having played with an R7 and an XH2s I decided they felt too large and/or awkward in my hands (the Sony A6700 wasn't announced then, and the FX30 has no viewfinder so ruled out). Then the XS20 was announced and I pre-ordered it... but before deliveries started a used OM-1 turned up at a really good price so I bought it and cancelled the XS20 order.

So in the end the fact that I already had micro4/3 lenses and the OM-1 just feels 'right' in my hands (and is weather sealed, with top-notch IBIS and a lovely 5.76M dot EVF) kept me in the micro4/3 world a while longer...

I've also seen moiré on many other cameras. I think it's just a frequency thing. I've noticed, for example, many YouTubers are turning to wearing linen instead of cotton; so, I imagine it's a problem on many cameras. I do believe, perhaps falsely, that pixel density has a major role- the more, the better; I think M43 on the GH6 or G9 ii definitely has that going for it. The other problem for me with moiré is that I just can't seem to get rid of it. I wish there was a plugin or AI that could meaningfully make it go away, as Topaz has done with aliasing. Until then, pixel density and anti-aliasing filters are all we've got IMO.

[ac6000cw]

23 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I do believe, perhaps falsely, that pixel density has a major role- the more, the better; I think M43 on the GH6 or G9 ii definitely has that going for it.

Provided the camera can process all the pixels on the sensor to produce the final video stream i.e. no line-skipping or pixel-binning,, then yes, I think in general a higher density is better. It's quite noticeable that the Panasonic S cameras are prone to it (but the high-res S1R not so much), but their micro4/3 cameras are not - but how much of that is due to processing differences and how much to pixel density plus lens resolution I don't know.

But if slow-mo is important to you, I guess the 4k @ 120p and FHD @ 240p on the G9ii also has to swing things in that direction?

[kye]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

The one thing that bugs me about the S5 ii is possible moiré. I've never seen it on the GH6 and I bet the G9 ii will be the same. The GH6 has been a little too quirky for me in that DR Boost needed to be set on or off. I don't like that.

I'm guessing there should be sufficient tests of the S5ii by now to be able to tell?  

I was also wary of the GH6 because of that mode, and specifically because they obviously had a problem with it with the horizontal banding in high-DR situations, but de-prioritised it.  

Apart from that, I'd benefit more from having a camera with dual-native-ISO rather than a dual-gain mode and only one native ISO because of the extended low-light it would give.

I saw this review talking about how the highlight of the G9 ii is the 300 FPS mode - linked to timestamp:

In terms of waiting vs buying, I adopt a risk management strategy.  If an option in front of you is worth buying even if there were no new products, and you couldn't wait (you need the features now) then I say buy.  If you can wait, then wait until you can't make do with what you have and then buy then.  Worst cases are that: 1) you bought and then a better option was released - but if you needed the tool for the job then it was an investment and also you can just trade-up with the interim projects helping to justify the loss, or 2) you can wait and so you do wait and no better option is released - but that's fine too because either you never buy because you never needed to upgrade or you eventually do need to upgrade and you buy then when the product is cheaper.