Panasonic G9 mk2

[IronFilm]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:04 PM, kye said:

The Resolve v18.1 manual is 4036 pages.  

My casual bed time reading for tonight. 

  

On 10/29/2023 at 5:56 AM, MrSMW said:

Gratuitous very tenuous link to post, but just for ‘proof’, my daughters little story on IG…

 

You don't happen to be Mark Lewis from youtube are you?? (I don't think so, by the IG story makes me wonder!)

On 10/31/2023 at 1:32 AM, John Matthews said:

Doesn't anyone think there's a market for FF point and shoots? FF sensors are now cheaper than their M43 counterparts. It would make sense to make a 35-50mm f2 prime with a decent small and light body. I could totally see OMDS making this and it would sell if they get the marketing right... which they won't. Panasonic also could do it. The RX1 would have been a hit if it were cheaper and a little smaller.

You could get your own Sony RX1 these days now for "only" US$650 on eBay. 

 

On 10/31/2023 at 3:02 AM, kye said:

Sure, the MFT is 20mm F1.7, which is about one stop deeper DoF but that's the slowest 40mm prime Sony make.

I actually don't care about the sensor size anymore, the FX3 is quite a small camera, the issue is that the lenses just aren't.

Take a look at the Nikon Zfc (or Z30 if you want a truly small body) with a Nikon 26mm f/2.8 lens (a full frame lens!)

It is also a nearly 40mm FoV (on the Zfc camera body), but using a FF lens which is slightly shorter than even the Panasonic 20mm f1.7!!

Or get the massively cheaper (only US$149, but yes, it has autofocus!) TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 APS-C Lens for the Zfc. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1764445-REG/ttartisan_af2728_z_b_27mm_f_2_8_lens_for.html

Of get the 7artisans Photoelectric 35mm f/5.6 Pancake Lens for US$99 and pair it with the full frame Nikon Zf. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1628290-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a006b_z_35mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, John Matthews said:

IMO, the cameras that are truly small for what they are: 1) GR, 2)A5100, 3)GM1/5. I just want a GR that does video, even better with a zoom and IBIS. It won't happen though. To be really small, it needs to be a POS; although the GM1 + 14mm f/2.5 comes really close.

A modern 2024 Sony a5100 and Panasonic GM1 would be really nice to have. 

  

On 11/1/2023 at 3:14 AM, John Matthews said:

I'm fairly certain all these cameras will have moiré patterns at some point whether it be 1080p, 4k, or 6k. The only difference is how visible it becomes and if you can recognize it on playback. The worst of patterns can also be controlled by understanding the frequencies with each lens and the fabrics and buildings causing them. This is a huge topic and merits considerable discussion. I still believe AI should/must "correct" it automatically. Many would pay for that.

That's a good idea, and a good little money maker to develop a plugin which automatically fixes moiré.

 

5 hours ago, kye said:

It really depends on what you're used to.

There was forum member on here years ago who was an ex ENG camera operator, so was used to handling a full-sized shoulder-rig in emergency situations and was also used to pissing people off while shooting (which is an integral part of ENG work).

He and I used to disagree on what "small" and "large" meant, because to him a 1DXii was a "small" camera and to me it's absolutely enormous!

I too think the 1DXii is a small camera 😛 😉

 

3 hours ago, kye said:

One of the things that I find hugely ironic is that if I had $10K to spend on a camera, the GX85 might still be the best choice.  If I had $100,000?  Still the GX85.  If I had $1,000,000?  Maybe I'd call up Panasonic and ask for them to CUSTOM MAKE me a camera!  

Sorry, US$1M is far too little money for them to even answer the phone. 

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

You don't happen to be Mark Lewis from youtube are you?? (I don't think so, by the IG story makes me wonder!)

Nah, he’s more ‘above average’ than I am.

 

[John Matthews]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You could get your own Sony RX1 these days now for "only" US$650 on eBay.

I would like decent video too. I know; I'm asking too much. Or, am I?

[kye]

Continuing the discussion about overall size of total rig, I just found an interesting lens for APS-C - the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8..   it's interesting because it's got a fixed aperture and is small for a APS-C lens.

Apparently it's a common lens for minimalist travel etc, when paired with the (very small) 11mm F1.8 prime for the ultra-wide / vlogging end.

[ac6000cw]

37 minutes ago, kye said:

Continuing the discussion about overall size of total rig, I just found an interesting lens for APS-C - the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8..   it's interesting because it's got a fixed aperture and is small for a APS-C lens.

Yes, especially as some full-frame cameras (e.g. S1, S5, S5ii, S1H, a7 IV, a7C II) have an APS-C crop in 4k50/60p, so it's a sensible video lens option for those in addition to native APS-C cameras.

I think MrSMW uses it sometimes on his L-mount cameras?

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

I think MrSMW uses it sometimes on his L-mount cameras?

Yep, as do a few others here.

Considering it's size and weight, it's performance is nuts on FF cameras such as the S5ii and S1H.

Having said that, I prefer it's bigger, but still compact brother, the 28-70mm f2.8

OK, it's an equivalent DOF of f4 on a FF camera (but still f2.8 for light gathering) and 27-75mm focal range.

I don't think any lens on the G9ii can compete with that and stick this lens on a body such as the XS20 and you have a superb compact set up for photo and video.

Compared with those f2.8 4/3rds zooms, they have an equivalent DOF of f5.6 with sensors less good in low light.

Take my preferred option of the FF Sigma 28-70 and stick that on the Fuji XS20 and that makes for an exceedingly interesting combo as you now have a focal range of 42-105mm which for me, is 90%+ of where I live.

It depends on your use case of course, but I personally would use...and did use, the Olympus 12-40mm f2.8 for certain day light tasks, but really only liked the f1.7 and f1.2 lenses. Because I like me a bit of shallow DOF. Not ridiculous razor thin, but  around the f2.8 mark using less than 75mm FF equiv lenses and OK with f4 above. Distance to subject and all that...

There's always some kind of trade off somewhere...

[kye]

41 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

There's always some kind of trade off somewhere...

True, but they're gradually chipping away at it, and sometimes even in the right directions.... 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, kye said:

True, but they're gradually chipping away at it, and sometimes even in the right directions.... 

Yep and BTS filming glasses rather than sticking a Go Pro on your chest or hot shoe is now a thing. Progress.

[TomTheDP]

19 hours ago, kye said:

Continuing the discussion about overall size of total rig, I just found an interesting lens for APS-C - the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8..   it's interesting because it's got a fixed aperture and is small for a APS-C lens.

Apparently it's a common lens for minimalist travel etc, when paired with the (very small) 11mm F1.8 prime for the ultra-wide / vlogging end.

Looks like a winner on the FX30. Gimbal one and done lens maybe

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Looks like a winner on the FX30. Gimbal one and done lens maybe

Indeed and pair it with it’s even tinier 10-18mm sibling and you would have a 15-27 and 27-75 combo

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:28 PM, kye said:

What do you feel is the advantage of the LX over something like the GX range?  Is it the size?  It definitely is much smaller with a roughly equivalent lens (even though I suspect the LX100 lens would extend once turned on)!

Yep, and a small and fast zoom lens (yes, it extends when powered on, but to carry is much smaller.

And being a zoom, for me, is a big differentiator compared to the X100 and GR. Much more versatile, and for the target groups, don't having to worry to change lenses is a huge selling point.

Never used a MK II - have the MK I, and it have a huge problem: the worst JPEG engine that I've ever saw in m4/3. Beside the usual green cast of the GH4 generation, it is mushy as hell. But the RAWs without problems, same as every m43 camera; but having to post-process takes a lot of the charm.

From waht I've heard, the MK II have the same JPEG pipeline of the OG G9 - hence the better Panasonic color science of that time. Having a touchscreen mitigates a bit the absence of a af joystick - I used it a lot in the GX85 and GX9, a joystick is better, but lcd touchpad is close.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 11/3/2023 at 5:11 AM, kye said:

Continuing the discussion about overall size of total rig, I just found an interesting lens for APS-C - the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8..   it's interesting because it's got a fixed aperture and is small for a APS-C lens.

Apparently it's a common lens for minimalist travel etc, when paired with the (very small) 11mm F1.8 prime for the ultra-wide / vlogging end.

I have the Sigma on my X-S20. Amazing little thing, almost never used other lens after getting it. Should be the template for newer m43 zooms - if Sigma could do a 18-50 F/2.8 covering APS_C with this size, a small 12-35 f/2 or even f/1.8 is doable.

[kye]

7 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I have the Sigma on my X-S20. Amazing little thing, almost never used other lens after getting it. Should be the template for newer m43 zooms - if Sigma could do a 18-50 F/2.8 covering APS_C with this size, a small 12-35 f/2 or even f/1.8 is doable.

Yes!  I definitely agree with you - there must be optimisations that can be made.

Please Panasonic!!

[sgreszcz]

On 10/23/2023 at 4:33 PM, John Matthews said:

An old, beaten up, hacked GH2 for live streaming (I make money with that). For daily usage, a hacked E-M1 ii.

What does the E-M1ii hack give you?  I love the E-M1ii that I got used for peanuts.  With the 12-100/4 and dual IBIS it is a dream run-and-gun for outdoor events.

Problem is I now have some indoor theatre work, and my m4/3 setup works great for video (E-M1ii handheld and GH5/GX80 on tripods with primes), I have been asked to shoot photos too for promotional print/online and the low-light + 2.8 zooms don't cut it with high-iso and motion blur.

I already sold my 75mm and 45mm 1.8 a long time ago.  I'm really debating getting the G9ii and Panasonic 12-60/2.8-4 and 10-25/1.7 to replace my EM1-ii + 12-100.  Or switching to Sony FF.  Hard as I've been in m43 since the original EM-5 in 2010.

[John Matthews]

18 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

What does the E-M1ii hack give you? 

You can hack it by installing a firmware to remove the recording limits on UHD. C4k still has some sort of limit. You'll need to look for it on Mu-43.com (I think).

If you go Sony, I'd price out those lenses first. I think most people who switched to Sony now simply can't get out because they invested too much in the lenses. Personally, I heavily prefer L mount- I think it's going places. Also, it's open, not closed.

 Low-light is possible on M43- just buy the 1.7/1.8 primes for dirt cheap. Sony lenses often cost an arm and a leg and they're rather bulky IMO.

[sgreszcz]

46 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

If you go Sony, I'd price out those lenses first. I think most people who switched to Sony now 

 Low-light is possible on M43- just buy the 1.7/1.8 primes for dirt cheap. Sony lenses often cost an arm and a leg and they're rather bulky IMO.

Thank you, just considering the Panasonic s5ii to replace the em1ii.  Just not convinced m4/3 can do decent indoor photography with movement.
 

 I need a zoom so thinking of g9ii with p10-25/1.7 and p35-100/2.8 or keep o40-150/2.8.  not sure I can be switching primes as can’t miss live action and can’t easily move around.  The s5ii with something like 24-100/f4 could be handy but then would lose the goodies like ibis and good AF on the em1ii.

[John Matthews]

57 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

I need a zoom so thinking of g9ii with p10-25/1.7 and p35-100/2.8 or keep o40-150/2.8.  not sure I can be switching primes as can’t miss live action and can’t easily move around.  The s5ii with something like 24-100/f4 could be handy but then would lose the goodies like ibis and good AF on the em1ii.

For interior work, FF will outperform M43, but it also comes at the cost of lack of DOF. Also, you might be surprised how good the S5ii's AF is; IMO, better and more advanced than the EM1ii (which is also good on faces). The S5ii's IBIS is about the same as the G9ii. The G9ii is probably best for outdoors. It's the same size as the S5ii. Fitted with the 10-25 f/1.7 (690g), I think the g9ii would be out-performed by a S5ii with a Sigma 28-70 f/2.8 (470g). For ultrawide, use the kit 20-60 lens. I haven't used any of those lenses though.

[MrSMW]

53 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

It's the same size as the S5ii. Fitted with the 10-25 f/1.7 (690g), I think the g9ii would be out-performed by a S5ii with a Sigma 28-70 f/2.8 (470g). For ultrawide, use the kit 20-60 lens. I haven't used any of those lenses though.

Pretty sure the S5ii ‘beats’ the G9ii…

Not got or tried that particular 4/3rds camera or that lens, but have the FF stuff and had the 20-60 which is great I think as a wide angle 20mm f3.5…which is pretty equivalent to the wide end of the 4/3rds 10-25.

This conversation is spread over 3 threads now 😂

I will stand by my opinion that the S5ii is the better option for low light. In good light, not a lot in it.

For stills, the FF. Easily. APSC such as Fuji, there’s not so much in it, but 4/3 vs FF, pretty clear cut to me based on extensive use case.

I could fool 99% of my clients 99% of the time…at least, but I’d know the truth.

Plus I’d have to work a lot harder in that ‘fooling’ and could I be bothered?

Nah.

There’s a place for 4/3rds, but it’s not low light theatre photography, not when full frame options exist.

In my opinion.

[sgreszcz]

14 hours ago, MrSMW said:

This conversation is spread over 3 threads now 😂

I will stand by my opinion that the S5ii is the better option for low light. In good light, not a lot in it.

I could fool 99% of my clients 99% of the time…at least, but I’d know the truth.

Plus I’d have to work a lot harder in that ‘fooling’ and could I be bothered?

There’s a place for 4/3rds, but it’s not low light theatre photography, not when full frame options exist.

Sorry about spreading this across various threads, I didn't know where the best discussion was and was trying to find out more about the G9ii, (potentially Sony) and learned about the Panasonic S5ii that I hadn't really even thought of as I didn't know it existed.

I think I'm going to go with the Panasonic S5ii with Sigma 2.8 zoom and Panasonic 24-105 to use as my main camera going forward.  Will sell my E-M1ii, O40-150/2.8 and O12-100/4.
 

As for the difference in low-light interior stills, it is night and day.  I can see some of the previous photographers' work with their presumably high-end Canon or Nikon lenses, and the m43, even with primes just doesn't have the same look or sharpness.  I spent a couple hours getting my test shots to look OK with AI denoise and other clarity/sharpening techniques but any shots with motion I had to delete.

For video I'll stay with using my GH5 with dumb battery and PL25/1.4 on one side of the theatre for a wide continuous shot and my GX80 with PL15/1.7 near me (to restart every 30min).  Will use the Panasonic s5ii for handheld close shots with the 24-105/4 and the Sigma 2.8 for photos (replace the olympus).  If it wasn't for the photos I would have just kept my setup as is until the G9ii dropped in price. 

I'll make up for the cost of switching by selling my olympus stuff and for the extra work I'll be getting.  Thanks for your advise everyone!