Panasonic G9 mk2

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, sgreszcz said:

Sorry about spreading this across various threads

Don't worry about it.

1 hour ago, sgreszcz said:

As for the difference in low-light interior stills, it is night and day

Yep. I'm off to see a venue near me next week where they had contracted a so-called pro to take interior shots for them.

There's a wedding planner involved. She asked me to cast my eye over them. Utter trash and having access to the exif data, I can see why, - auto everything; aperture, shutter speed, ISO, WB, - dimwits.

Interiors/commercial property shoots are not my normal thing, but I have been a pro event photographer for 23 years and so understand you don't auto anything with this kind of thing. It's a switch the house lights off, light it yourself, manual from start to finish. Hey ho, their loss will be my gain as I'm already on the referral list now and the other idiots who were on briefly, are now off. But I digress...

1 hour ago, sgreszcz said:

I'll make up for the cost of switching by selling my olympus stuff and for the extra work I'll be getting

Always a good call...and the reason I can't go to my 'ideal' gear scenario, - it will not make me a single extra penny. Make my life very slightly easier and give me slightly greater job satisfaction, but quantifiably, only one of those factors I would be aware of.

1 hour ago, sgreszcz said:

Thanks for your advise everyone!

No problem. You generally get solid advice here. Unlike say YouTube comments where opinions are all over the place and a lot of the time, coming from sources of zero credibility. Most folks on here will give you their credentials privately if asked and you can mthen make your own mind up whether they are muppets or not 😜

1 hour ago, sgreszcz said:

I think I'm going to go with the Panasonic S5ii

A good call in my opinion. I have been wrestling with the right gear combo for years and it's only very recently I finally cracked it and not being able to flip to that 18k Canon scenario, have 'settled' for remaining with my L Mount set up, 3 out of 4 pieces that I bought used, as the next best (incredibly good) option.

 

[Beritar]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:51 PM, Beritar said:

The little 20mm performs pretty well on this video. Much better than on the previous Panasonic cameras.

However I'm concerned about the G9II focus accuracy in video, I watched and downloaded some clips and a lot of times the focus is not 100% accurate when viewing at 1:1, exactly like on my GH6 with most of my lenses when using slow frame rate in 4K/C4K/5,7K (below 48fps). It seems to affect only some lenses on the G9II, mostly the zooms.

Nevertheless, I decided to preorder the camera because I'm not a fan of the GH6 ( (outside of the very nice colors).
I have some great M43 lenses, so some features like the improved IBIS, DRBOOST at base ISO or even the come back of the I-Dynamic are very welcome. I just hope they will fix the AF, I also hope the IBIS in 5,7K and Open Gate are improved as well, because on the GH6, they are weakier than on 4K.

I quote myself because I just watched a G9II video of a real user. And like I've noticed in some early reviews, the author of the video confirms that the G9II focus has some accuracy issues.
Exactly like on my GH6, the camera went out of focus when the recording button is pressed in 4K-C4K,5,7K at 24/25/30fps. On the G9II, even 60fps seems to have the issue.

The author of the video says : "One more thing, on two shots like on the first one, the camera went out of focus when I pressed the recording button and stayed there, although I was using continuous auto focus. It seems to be a bug as well but this was the first time I experienced it".

Also, like on the GH6, the IBIS is still worse in 5,7K :

Some videos about the GH6 AF accuracy issue : 

 

 

 

[Beritar]

I just got my G9II today.

So far, the AF is very good, I only tested the camera with two lenses, but the issues I had on the GH6 (pulsing, and out of focus bug) seem solved. The camera shows 1.0 firwmare, so maybe Panasonic has improved the focus since the beta firmware.

[kye]

12 hours ago, Beritar said:

I just got my G9II today.

So far, the AF is very good, I only tested the camera with two lenses, but the issues I had on the GH6 (pulsing, and out of focus bug) seem solved. The camera shows 1.0 firwmare, so maybe Panasonic has improved the focus since the beta firmware.

I've seen people saying that the G9ii is the best MFT camera ever made by Panasonic, so the comparison is being made.  

Of course, this leaves lots of room for improvement, as the GH6 has advantages over the G9ii, so an updated GH-line with full-sized body could exceed both, and a smaller bodied GX-line with some trickle-down features would also be a significant improvement to that line.

[Beritar]

On 11/15/2023 at 2:10 AM, kye said:

I've seen people saying that the G9ii is the best MFT camera ever made by Panasonic, so the comparison is being made.  

Of course, this leaves lots of room for improvement, as the GH6 has advantages over the G9ii, so an updated GH-line with full-sized body could exceed both, and a smaller bodied GX-line with some trickle-down features would also be a significant improvement to that line.

Yes, mostly because the AF is much better than the GH6, much faster and accurate, no more out of focus bug, nor pulsing in Open Gate mode. The GH6 was so bad when using low frame rate or when using Open Gate that I used much more my old GH5.

Also the G9II is significantly lighter than the GH6. Like you, I would like a GX9II (without 4K crop), I bet it could sell very well.
However, I still don't like the fine detail rendering in video compared to the previous Panasonic cameras like the S5/S1/S1H and GH5/G9. Since the GH6, the "improved" Intelligent Detail Filter makes the fine details very plastic in low light IMHO.

[PannySVHS]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:26 AM, Beritar said:

However, I still don't like the fine detail rendering in video compared to the previous Panasonic cameras like the S5/S1/S1H and GH5/G9. Since the GH6, the "improved" Intelligent Detail Filter makes the fine details very plastic in low light IMHO.

Yikes. G9II needs one ingredient from the GH5 II, a zero sharpened organic image.

[kye]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:26 PM, Beritar said:

Yes, mostly because the AF is much better than the GH6, much faster and accurate, no more out of focus bug, nor pulsing in Open Gate mode. The GH6 was so bad when using low frame rate or when using Open Gate that I used much more my old GH5.

Also the G9II is significantly lighter than the GH6. Like you, I would like a GX9II (without 4K crop), I bet it could sell very well.
However, I still don't like the fine detail rendering in video compared to the previous Panasonic cameras like the S5/S1/S1H and GH5/G9. Since the GH6, the "improved" Intelligent Detail Filter makes the fine details very plastic in low light IMHO.

Just un-sharpen in post.

I remember a great thread on a colourist forum some months ago asking about sharpening, and the responses were that mostly people don't sharpen, and many reduce the sharpness of the image to avoid a digital look.

I think that unsharpening might be one of those hidden things that camera fondlers would consider heresy but is widely done by the pros for high end work.  They were talking about cameras that shoot RAW too, not compressed codecs from consumer cameras.

[Beritar]

18 hours ago, kye said:

Just un-sharpen in post.

I remember a great thread on a colourist forum some months ago asking about sharpening, and the responses were that mostly people don't sharpen, and many reduce the sharpness of the image to avoid a digital look.

I think that unsharpening might be one of those hidden things that camera fondlers would consider heresy but is widely done by the pros for high end work.  They were talking about cameras that shoot RAW too, not compressed codecs from consumer cameras.

Yes but it is not only a problem with sharpening, both the GH6 and the G9II have a digital filter to remove moire, but the result is not so great, some details looks smoothed out, especially in low light.

I much prefer the details of previous Panasonic cameras. On the old G9 and GH5, the fine details looked really like on a raw photo, it was very sharp but like you said it's pretty easy to un-sharpen in post. 
But on the GH6 and G9II, the Intelligent Detail Filter just destroys fine details making some areas of the image soft and some areas very sharp.

[kye]

4 hours ago, Beritar said:

Yes but it is not only a problem with sharpening, both the GH6 and the G9II have a digital filter to remove moire, but the result is not so great, some details looks smoothed out, especially in low light.

I much prefer the details of previous Panasonic cameras. On the old G9 and GH5, the fine details looked really like on a raw photo, it was very sharp but like you said it's pretty easy to un-sharpen in post. 
But on the GH6 and G9II, the Intelligent Detail Filter just destroys fine details making some areas of the image soft and some areas very sharp.

Just un-sharpen more.

Unless you like the digital look?  TBH I find that if something hasn't been un-sharpened, even if it was shot with RAW video and not processed at all, I find that it is trying to shout at me over the content of the video.

I suspect the culprit is the post-sharpening that is done by YT / streaming service.  Comparing your upload to YT shows quite a substantial difference.

[Beritar]

8 hours ago, kye said:

Just un-sharpen more.

Unless you like the digital look?  TBH I find that if something hasn't been un-sharpened, even if it was shot with RAW video and not processed at all, I find that it is trying to shout at me over the content of the video.

I suspect the culprit is the post-sharpening that is done by YT / streaming service.  Comparing your upload to YT shows quite a substantial difference.

Ahah, no, of course it is on the original files, I never pixel peep on converted files.

I don't like the digital look at all like on smartphone (when everything is oversharpened), but I don't like digital processing making the image soft or sharp artificialy either. I sometime need to keep all the fine details for my videos, I don't want they have digital sharpening, I just want the same details as a raw photo without any digital processing. If I really need a soft image looking, I think the 1080P of my GH5 with a bit of un-sharpen is perfect, no need for a 4K or 6K camera.
If I un-sharpen a video file looking like a raw photo, as on the GH5, the result is good, because every details are there. But when I un-sharpen a file like on the GH6, it just doesn't look as good in my opinion, especially in low light, it looks more like if the image is upscaled.

My S5II also has bad processing going on internaly compared to previous S cameras, bad edge sharpening even in V-log, making the fine details less thin, and also chroma noise reduction more or less significant depending on the profile used. Of course, most of the time and depending on your screen, you need to crop in order to see the difference.

Digital processing like the Intelligent Detail Filter on the GH6 can certainly helps with moiré, but nothing come close to a OLPF like on the S1H for the nicest image quality. I even prefer to use my GH5 in low light compared to the GH6 below 1600 ISO, sure the GH6 is cleaner, but something just looks off about fine details rendering. Of course, downscaling the file to 1080P or viewing it on small screen doesn't make a big difference between both cameras. Again, it's really when cropping we can see that the details rendering is not the same.
But it is not so simple, because the colors of the GH6 are really really nice, I just love their new 25MP M43 sensor, it has natural and rich tones in video (and photos of course), nicer than on my S5II IMHO. Last time I loved the colors of a camera as much was with the Samsung NX1.
My G9II has more or less the same colors than the GH6, but on the cooler side, and more magenta overall. Nothing that can't be fixed in post though.

[kye]

3 hours ago, Beritar said:

Ahah, no, of course it is on the original files, I never pixel peep on converted files.

I don't like the digital look at all like on smartphone (when everything is oversharpened), but I don't like digital processing making the image soft or sharp artificialy either. I sometime need to keep all the fine details for my videos, I don't want they have digital sharpening, I just want the same details as a raw photo without any digital processing. If I really need a soft image looking, I think the 1080P of my GH5 with a bit of un-sharpen is perfect, no need for a 4K or 6K camera.
If I un-sharpen a video file looking like a raw photo, as on the GH5, the result is good, because every details are there. But when I un-sharpen a file like on the GH6, it just doesn't look as good in my opinion, especially in low light, it looks more like if the image is upscaled.

My S5II also has bad processing going on internaly compared to previous S cameras, bad edge sharpening even in V-log, making the fine details less thin, and also chroma noise reduction more or less significant depending on the profile used. Of course, most of the time and depending on your screen, you need to crop in order to see the difference.

Digital processing like the Intelligent Detail Filter on the GH6 can certainly helps with moiré, but nothing come close to a OLPF like on the S1H for the nicest image quality. I even prefer to use my GH5 in low light compared to the GH6 below 1600 ISO, sure the GH6 is cleaner, but something just looks off about fine details rendering. Of course, downscaling the file to 1080P or viewing it on small screen doesn't make a big difference between both cameras. Again, it's really when cropping we can see that the details rendering is not the same.
But it is not so simple, because the colors of the GH6 are really really nice, I just love their new 25MP M43 sensor, it has natural and rich tones in video (and photos of course), nicer than on my S5II IMHO. Last time I loved the colors of a camera as much was with the Samsung NX1.
My G9II has more or less the same colors than the GH6, but on the cooler side, and more magenta overall. Nothing that can't be fixed in post though.

Yes, lots of stuff is done in-camera and cannot be un-done, so it's just a case of trying all the tricks we have and seeing how far we get.

If you do a custom WB on the G9ii and GH6 on the same scene, does it remove the differences in WB between them?

[Beritar]

7 hours ago, kye said:

Yes, lots of stuff is done in-camera and cannot be un-done, so it's just a case of trying all the tricks we have and seeing how far we get.

If you do a custom WB on the G9ii and GH6 on the same scene, does it remove the differences in WB between them?

Hard to say because I already sold the GH6. However, like the S5 and S5II, the G9II and GH6's colors are slightly different.

But honestly the G9II's colors are really good, the best I've seen (with the GH6) from a Panasonic camera.
From what I've read, the sensors inside these two M43 cameras come from TowerJazz, as opposed to Sony with the GH5/G9/S5II/S5/S1H/S1. 

[kye]

5 hours ago, Beritar said:

Hard to say because I already sold the GH6. However, like the S5 and S5II, the G9II and GH6's colors are slightly different.

But honestly the G9II's colors are really good, the best I've seen (with the GH6) from a Panasonic camera.
From what I've read, the sensors inside these two M43 cameras come from TowerJazz, as opposed to Sony with the GH5/G9/S5II/S5/S1H/S1. 

Interesting about the sensors (perhaps?) not being Sony - it makes sense though if they developed the dual-gain architecture as a custom design, which I am assuming they did.

It also then follows that the colour science would be slightly different too.  I suppose they could have made it identical if they'd wanted, but I think if you were designing such a thing you'd constantly be tinkering with it, trying to improve, adapting to more recent tastes etc.

The fact that the G9ii is as good as the GH6 in many ways could be a promising sign for what a potential GH7 could bring.  I think the difficulties with the GH6 were unfortunate, as was that it was overshadowed by the PDAF implementations of the next releases.  I think that Panasonic were being bold and trying to really push forward in doing a dual-gain architecture sensor, but unfortunately it just didn't quite make the kind of difference that you'd hope from such a bold move.  I guess Panasonic might take the "lesson" to just go back to incrementalism and play it safe etc, but I really hope they don't do that, but instead view it as a good-but-not-great project and keep being bold and trying things.

If the GH6 and G9ii sensors are from TowerJazz (or any other non-Sony provider) then it might be a sign they're going out on their own and will continue to iterate on the design and improve it over time.  That would be a great outcome I think.

[PannySVHS]

I just hope that Panasonic allows to turn off the mambo jambo with textures, what @Beritar was describing. Then it would be my S1 replacement and compliment my S1H. I am curious about dual gain colour. I would also love to have more "official" crop modes for S16, 2/3 inch, 16mm and so on, rather than a 2 x digizoom for 2/3" or pixel to pixel , which on the G9II in 4K mode is something around the 16mm format. Btw isn't Beritar a label under which Tokina and Sigma lenses have been sold, just like Vivitar, Soligor, Hanimex, etc? 🙂

[Beritar]

5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I just hope that Panasonic allows to turn off the mambo jambo with textures, what @Beritar was describing. Then it would be my S1 replacement and compliment my S1H. I am curious about dual gain colour. I would also love to have more "official" crop modes for S16, 2/3 inch, 16mm and so on, rather than a 2 x digizoom for 2/3" or pixel to pixel , which on the G9II in 4K mode is something around the 16mm format. Btw isn't Beritar a label under which Tokina and Sigma lenses have been sold, just like Vivitar, Soligor, Hanimex, etc? 🙂

Sadly, this is just a stupid nickname 🙃.
About the mambo jambo textures, when using BRAW on the S5II, the image is free from the weird edge sharpening, the image is great, juste like the internal S1 and S5 with their last firmware. So yes, like you I hope they will allow to turn off most of their bad processing, they surely can.

[PannySVHS]

I don't care about S5II/X on my own behalf as I am not intending to trade it in for any of my stuff I am going to have to sell. I got too much unused equilment, so a complimentary camera instead for my S1H will be cool. At the moment that would still be my S1, which I would sell. A G9 would offer additional features to find out about, especially Dual Gain, Pdaf and punsh-in preview during recording. Wanna test that Towerjazz magic and new colour!:) I have seen lowlight comparisons with the GH5s where it holds onto resolution and colours better than the latter. I just wouldn't buy into mambojambo affected textures. How could they mess up on that. Flagship cameras, at least from Panasonic, should not have unnecessary image nasties like that. If a GH5 (ll) and G9 do better in that regard it is a step back, which is unnatural by the logic of a succeeding model of the product line.

So, Panasonic, do your GH6 and G9II a favour and make them the much better cameras they potentially akready are. Turn off the mambojambo.

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

If a GH5 (ll)

I wonder if Panasonic would be crazy enough to bring out a GH5 mk3, that is simply identical to the GH5 mk1 / mk2, but with DPAF added! Especially if they could hold the price the same, or even better drop it slightly to fall under the magical US$1K mark. Could be a smash hit then. 

(although, I would dream that they make one more addition to the GH5 mk3: add timecode support! At least like the GH5S has)

The GH7 can get the kitchen sink at it, but let the GH5mk3 carry on all that is great with the GH5, but with PDAF

[Beritar]

15 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I don't care about S5II/X on my own behalf as I am not intending to trade it in for any of my stuff I am going to have to sell. I got too much unused equilment, so a complimentary camera instead for my S1H will be cool. At the moment that would still be my S1, which I would sell. A G9 would offer additional features to find out about, especially Dual Gain, Pdaf and punsh-in preview during recording. Wanna test that Towerjazz magic and new colour!:) I have seen lowlight comparisons with the GH5s where it holds onto resolution and colours better than the latter. I just wouldn't buy into mambojambo affected textures. How could they mess up on that. Flagship cameras, at least from Panasonic, should not have unnecessary image nasties like that. If a GH5 (ll) and G9 do better in that regard it is a step back, which is unnatural by the logic of a succeeding model of the product line.

So, Panasonic, do your GH6 and G9II a favour and make them the much better cameras they potentially akready are. Turn off the mambojambo.

There is a benefit though. Much less moiré than the GH5 and G9, also the footage can look more cinematic without doing much in post because some fine details are smoother.

The GH6 and G9II also use more noise/chroma noise reduction with most profiles than the first GH5 and G9. To get ride of it, you must use the "huge" 5,7K Pro Res mode in V-Log. But the AF is so bad in 24/30fps (AF accuracy issues) that I never used it.

In any case, to really see the difference you need to crop a lot, and the details become really nasty only in low light, I'm sure 90% of users will never see the difference, like most never seen the edge sharpening/chroma noise reduction difference between the S5II and S5/S1.
I even think most people prefer to get slightly altered details with less noise than more preserved details with full of noise.

[Beritar]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I wonder if Panasonic would be crazy enough to bring out a GH5 mk3, that is simply identical to the GH5 mk1 / mk2, but with DPAF added! Especially if they could hold the price the same, or even better drop it slightly to fall under the magical US$1K mark. Could be a smash hit then. 

(although, I would dream that they make one more addition to the GH5 mk3: add timecode support! At least like the GH5S has)

The GH7 can get the kitchen sink at it, but let the GH5mk3 carry on all that is great with the GH5, but with PDAF

A GH5 with the colors of the GH6 and the AF of the G9II for about $1K would be perfect for me.

[IronFilm]

44 minutes ago, Beritar said:

A GH5 with the colors of the GH6 and the AF of the G9II for about $1K would be perfect for me.

Yeah, who the hell needs 4K 120fps anyway??? Not me