Panasonic G9 mk2

[Davide DB]

26 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’m curious because manufacturers seemingly show no interest in tackling it definitively and I would have to guess that it is because they are comfortable with the amount of, erm, heat they receive from dealers and customers about it.

90% of customers do not care about overheating. Otherwise GoPro would have gone out of business five years ago. 
 

 

[ac6000cw]

30 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its always been there in the background of course

Yes - most of the camera manuals I have say something like 'recording times may be reduced in high ambient temperatures'.

31 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

and the R5 was a wild ride while we were investigating it but it’s back with an increased vengeance recently.

I wonder if some of this is because the R5 situation bought the general issue to the attention of a lot more people (as it was discussed ad-nauseum at the time)?

Consequentially influencers & reviewers now have it on their 'must test it and/or say something about it' list - and of course they tend to choose the most computationally demanding video modes to test overheating, rather than the modes that probably 95% of users might choose day-to-day.

47 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’m curious because manufacturers seemingly show no interest in tackling it definitively and I would have to guess that it is because they are comfortable with the amount of, erm, heat they receive from dealers and customers about it.

I assume it's just that making the camera smaller and lighter (combined with a long enough features list) probably sells more product than putting a fan in it (to make it more appealing to a minority of video-orientated customers). I know a reasonable number of people who have and use reasonably 'serious' cameras, but mention to them that I use mine a lot for video and the reaction is often almost 'what's video' or that they have no real interest in shooting it...

I'm sure the design engineers could fix the thermal issues, but if that would make it noticeably larger and more expensive they probably get overruled by the product management & marketing side of the company (unless it's a hybrid camera that's very much aimed at video users, e.g. like the GHx, S5iix and S1H). Even the (original) G9 has a 10 minute 4k60p limit whereas it's very close relative the GH5 has much longer record times...

[ac6000cw]

Initial review and specs on dpReview - https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-g9-ii-initial-review-the-g9-series-matures

[ac6000cw]

One thing I am a bit surprised at is not upgrading the viewfinder - it's the same 3.68M dots resolution as it's predecessor, whereas the OM-1 has a (really nice to use) 5.76M dot panel.

I also have to agree with dpReview's comment:

Quote

So it's not obvious that Panasonic has answered the prayers we've heard from Micro Four Thirds shooters with the otherwise solid-seeming G9 II. Even though it's chockablock with video goodness, it's not the 'GH6 with better autofocus' fans were clamoring for, and even though it has some slight stills advantages over the OM-1, it's hard to imagine anyone passing up that more compact camera for this bigger option with worse battery life.

 

[BTM_Pix]

21 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

90% of customers do not care about overheating. Otherwise GoPro would have gone out of business five years ago. 
 

 

That is where I'm going with this to be honest and, despite all the hand wringing on here about it, I don't think the motivation for change will come until the 10% become the 90%.

Maybe the EU will come galloping (or more likely sashaying considering the pace they work at) to the rescue with a standard rating system for cameras denoting the number of overheating shutdowns per hour.

Call it the Sum of Heat Induced Terminations and measure it on a 1-10 scale with the higher number obviously being the worst.

It would offer more clarity and might actually shame them into doing something about it.

"So, Mr Sony, regarding overheating, what is the SHIT rating for this new camera ?"

"Oh, its very SHIT indeed."

 

[sanveer]

I wonder if the G9 ii overheats,  considering they removed the fan on the S1ii size body. 

[MrSMW]

To quote old Ben Kenobi, these are not the Lumix cameras I am looking for.

[BTM_Pix]

5 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I wonder if some of this is because the R5 situation bought the general issue to the attention of a lot more people (as it was discussed ad-nauseum at the time)?

The R5 was a bit of watershed moment because we proved that there was a deliberate obfuscation by Canon but it also shod light on the shilling and/or powderpuff testing aspects of a swathe of the YouTube bros.

The reaction from many of them to the original report by @Andrew Reid was particularly vicious and then, sans apology, they then made shameless hay by doing the shock faced testing videos.

Never once acknowledging that not only was the camera on fire but also their pants.

I think it then died off because it was belatedly addressed through firmware and people shrugged and said "well no one is going to risk releasing an overheating camera again".

Neither aspect was re-dressed fully though so it has been waiting to come back again, not least because a lot of the bros have invested serious crypto into those stock footage flames to do the follow up "honest re-test" videos after they've surfed the wave of the initial "reviews".

I might be being a bit cynical there though 🙂

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

I wonder if the G9 ii overheats,  considering they removed the fan on the S1ii size body. 

I've just watched/listened to the PetaPixel (Chris and Jordan) and Geeky Nerdy Techy YouTube reviews, and both of them reported that at room temperature anything below 4k120/4k100p mode recorded until the battery died (which I think for 4k60p was around 1h 20m - 1h 30m). 4k120p overheated after about 25-30 minutes.

So pretty good I think.

Interestingly Jordan said the G9ii might become his favourite everyday video camera - it would be a bit ironic if the G9ii turns out to be a serious GH6 killer, despite being supposedly aimed at stills shooters...

Both reviews said the automatic (versus manual on the GH6) 'dynamic range boost' function works well, and also the IBIS is extremely good (as in 'best we've ever used').

[PannySVHS]

Performance champion ahead! Impressive results tested by German review site slashcam. They tested more than 2 hours of 4K 50p in the summer heat of  Berlin, at 30 degree Celsius and still 3 bars left for the battery status.

Camera can record Cine 4K 60p with 600mbps All Intra internally and 800mbps to SSD, also giving Open Gate internal h265 or Prores to external SSD, plus internal Pros HQ in HD. It offers most of the recording option and codecs of the GH6.

4K 120p seems downsampled and the same quality as from the GH6. Dual Gain is available at lower Isos and automtically active up to 4K 60.

Pdaf was performing as good ad expected. It's like a GH6 with exellent AF and possibly even better Dual Gain implementation and image quality for video. The camera was running on a beta firmware. Check the website for your own reading pleasure via translate with deepl or other translators if you don't dig German at the moment.😊

 

 

[sanveer]

3 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I've just watched/listened to the PetaPixel (Chris and Jordan) and Geeky Nerdy Techy YouTube reviews, and both of them reported that at room temperature anything below 4k120/4k100p mode recorded until the battery died (which I think for 4k60p was around 1h 20m - 1h 30m). 4k120p overheated after about 25-30 minutes.

So pretty good I think.

Interestingly Jordan said the G9ii might become his favourite everyday video camera - it would be a bit ironic if the G9ii turns out to be a serious GH6 killer, despite being supposedly aimed at stills shooters...

Both reviews said the automatic (versus manual on the GH6) 'dynamic range boost' function works well, and also the IBIS is extremely good (as in 'best we've ever used').

That's great. Overheating is scary. Its great that its been addressed well by Panasonic.

 

 

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Pdaf was performing as good ad expected. It's like a GH6 with exellent AF and possibly even better Dual Gain implementation and image quality for video. The camera was running on a beta firmware. Check the website for your own reading pleasure via translate with deepl or other translators if you don't dig German at the moment.😊

I checked the website, and also the screen grabs. The video seems to have a superb organic look about it. The noise reduction is minimal, and there is an inherently film-like grain in the frames shared. Very reminiscent of the GH2. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Looks like a very good camera. Same GH6 sensor with PDAF, but looks like they changed the mode that it worls, and now the DR in low iso is decent. High ISOs, from the lone review that I saw that tested it (Hybrid Shooter), not so much - 1600 is already noisy.

As most of people here, my desire was a new GX with this tech, but the Panasonic ethos for m43 looks like "minimal investment". Newest lenses are just newer versions of the existing ones with better coatings and a Leica badge, most of the G9II chassis is based from the S5II (even the new bottom grip is the same for both).

Did not see a GX model of this plataform, not even a G95II. Maybe a G100II for vloggers, with PDAF but no IBIS (to clash with the ZV-E10). 

Possible, it is - the X-S20, without the EVF bump, is exactly the same size of the GX9. Just put the bigger battery slanted (how it was on the GX7), a decent EVF (could be the 2.36 that everyone uses), and I would be very tempted to go back.

Or, with the X100v sold out everywhere, a LX100 III with a decent EVF, PDAF and tilt LCD like the X100V. Would bought it in the pre-order (still hunting for a LX100 II in a good price, only way to get parted with my LX100 OG).

[Davide DB]

Any review from Canada?

 

[Andrew Reid]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’ll preface this by saying that that is some spec and it will likely be a very decent camera.

However….

A smaller sensor inside a smaller body with smaller lenses at a smaller price was the whole raison d’etre of the Micro Four Thirds system.

The clue was right there in the name.

Panasonic seems to have looked what BMW has done since it acquired the Mini and thought “yeah, that’s the path for us too”.

In a world where their own full frame S5ii exists, let alone the compact APS-C feature laden cameras from all the other manufacturers, I don’t get where they are coming from with their latter day MFT releases and, in my opinion, they have completely lost their way with the system, particularly in terms of attracting new adopters.

Even for the old guard, you’d have to be pretty attached to that native lens collection to go in again.

Panasonic seem to have a borderline kinky reluctance to refresh the two cameras that would actually cause a resurgence in the ideology of the system as well as sales.

Namely, the GX80 and the LX100.

Putting a mic jack on them and giving them 10 bit 4:2:2 internal and VLOG would be a piece of piss for Panasonic and they could sell them all day long at their equivalent launch prices.

They might have to push the boat out and put IBIS in the LX but I don’t even think that is a deal breaker.

I’m at loss to where they are getting their market research from that’s telling them there is. Bigger demand for small sensor cameras in large sensor bodies at large sensor prices.

 

They seem to have got into the way of thinking that crop sensor = cut price version of full frame, rather than having them offer portability. The lenses are also getting too big as well!

They showed all the way back in 2014 that a Micro Four Thirds sensor could go in something as small as a GM5 or LX100.

Since then, it's all about capitulating to the American market which doesn't really go for small cameras.

The GH1 and GH2 were typically Japanese and quirky, lovely to use. Then the American Panasonic team got involved and we got the stale GH3.

As well as a new GX80 with latest gubbins and a new LX100 I'd love for Panasonic to give us their version of a Leica Q.

Sony has the RX1.

Panasonic with full frame camera the size of a deck of cards would be great, but their absolutely-not-a-cartel L2 partnership probably puts paid to that!

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

The lenses are also getting too big as well!

Sigma really delivered for MFT with their 16/30/56 f1.4 primes but have obviously seen the writing on the wall and only offer the new 24 f1.4 and 18-50 f2.8 additions in X and L mount.

Those two lenses would have really rounded out that range for a compact, fast and affordable set.

The prices are getting too big as well.

The 18-50 f2.8 in X or L mount is £400 while a comparable if slower variable aperture Panasonic 12-60mm f2.8-4.0 in MFT is twice that price.

There is still plenty of value in the original pancakes etc of course but it gets pretty expensive pretty fast taking the step above those.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'd love for Panasonic to give us their version of a Leica Q.

That LC-1 they did way back when was a handsome bastard so I'd definitely like to see a modern version.

[sanveer]

The original G9 was released at $1699, and often, it costed $999 at great sales. The G9ii should have been released at $1499, mostly because Fuji, Sony and Canon have alternatives at competiting price points. Though those may have their shortcomings, especially for video features and overheating issues.

Panasonic should price this very competitively. And target Indie Filmmakers and Film Students. Forget the photographers for this one. 

[Emanuel]

I see MFT as 'THE' format by its own.

 

It's 8mm/S8/16mm/S16/35mm/S35 in a whole package...

 

FF look is always possible to achieve with the right glass...

...but you have no such a versatile set of different glass and price range -- no less important, elsewhere as happens going on along this route.

 

Shows this/'the' format is alive, so how couldn't I like it?

All POWER (with capital letters) on it!

 

Love for the format,

- EAG

[SRV1981]

What’s the thoughts on this versus say an a6700 for hybrid videography and travel?

[Emanuel]

12 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

What’s the thoughts on this versus say an a6700 for hybrid videography and travel?

Dunno but nothing beats these guys now coupled to PDAF IMHO... : P

 

Well, only Blackmagic user/filmmaker camera interface to my book ; )

Reason why P4K is still one of my favs but that's a whole distinct speech TBH, right.

[sanveer]

3 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

What’s the thoughts on this versus say an a6700 for hybrid videography and travel?

The G9ii is similar in size to the S1ii, both of which would be enormous as travel cameras. The Sony A6700 may be a better bet for travel. As long as you don't need the absolute best video quality for it, that should do for most situations.