Panasonic G9 mk2

[MrSMW]

6 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I didn't mind making the compromise on IQ and low light when it was traded off for size but once that size increased then its advantages as a system went the other way.

That for me was the issue with 4/3.

I so nearly went with the OM-1 last year just because I loved the compact chunkiness of it, but ultimately, I could not get passed (mentally at least), the inevitable loss of low light capability and ultimate image quality hit I would have taken going 'back' from full-frame.

A 'step back' to APSC I could probably have swallowed with something like the XH2, but back to 4/3, nah, that boat has sailed for me.

Less so for video, more so for stills.

But these last few years, months and even weeks, have taught me something and that is next year, I am putting both a size and weight cap on what will be my next gen kit.

I've been grappling with this ever since switching from Fuji to Lumix for 3 seasons now and I feel I am losing a large portion of my mojo when it comes to shooting as I am wrestling what feels like square pegs into round holes. That has to stop. That will stop.

For video, it will almost certainly be Lumix shooting 4k 50p because A. they still offer me the best all round solution and B. I had an unexpected extra 13k tax bill this year due to an accounting error (not mine I should add but the tax office themselves!) plus a 30k new roof expense coming in March '24.

But I WILL be getting a new compact, hi res stills camera. Based on what is available and what is definitely coming, I already know what that is and it's not (sadly) from L Mount as things stand. There's still a chance though...

2.8kg in the hand vs much more capable 1.4kg? There's just no contest and it's not even a question.

[sanveer]

Great thorough review. This seems like one of the best ones. Hopefully someone tests the G9ii's video quality with the GH6 (I suspect it may have slightly cleaner video and thus slightly better dynamic range).

P.S.: That streaking issue has been fixed in the G9ii. 

 

 

 

 

I really feel Panasonic needs to Re-Brand and Re-Market their M43 lineup. A huge reason for not selling enough G7, GX85, and the GM5 cameras may have been poor marketing IMHO. The G9ii is a video monster, and Panasonic should leave no stone unturned to shout this to anyone and everyone.

 

[PannySVHS]

Keep your little MFT gem! 🙂  @BTM_Pix GX85 with the MF Laowa 17mm F1.8 is tiny, with the Oly 17mm 1.8 even moreso. A7R2 sucks at video quality.  Codec for 4K and colors on the GX85 are so much better, no contest. GX85 Ibis for video smokes the A7Rs stabilisation by a big margin..

Photos on the A7r2 are of course high resolution FF goodness. But with good light both produce great results. Pixel count on the Sony is more than twice of course, resolution 1.5 as high (pixel per axis). Oly EM10III seems like it is another tiny mft gem and little powerhouse. I might reread Andrews review of it showing off perfect downsampled 4k. Battery life is pretty nice with the Lumix as well. And, it's pretty. I am a great fan of Mft. Now, Panasonic, give us 10bit Pdaf GX and LX cameras.

[PannySVHS]

26 minutes ago, sanveer said:

A huge reason for not selling enough G7, GX85, and the GM5 cameras may have been poor marketing IMHO. The G9ii is a video monster, and Panasonic should leave no stone unturned to shout this to anyone and everyone.

 

Now that!

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not sure why you are couching it in such dramatic terms as people throwing their cameras out of the pram.

There were no hissy fits and not all the old camera were disposed of, rather that the more the new cameras moved away from the original ethos the less inclined people like me were to replace their old ones.

I didn't stop buying new Lumix MFT cameras post the GX80 in some fit of pique, its because the form factor of the new ones became increasingly at odds with the point of the system.

The system appealed as a much smaller alternative to the bulkier FF and APS-C DSLRs that I had so I was less inclined to buy the newer ones as they began to expand and, of course, this became even more acute when mirrorless FF and APS-C cameras started to come down and meet them in the middle.

I didn't mind making the compromise on IQ and low light when it was traded off for size but once that size increased then its advantages as a system went the other way.

I didn't and haven't stopped using mine but it has diminished with each passing year over the past five years.

Not because they have become unusable just that their USP is no longer anywhere near the U and there are better alternatives.

The lenses were always shared with the OG Pocket and Micro and the LS300 but have also found a new home with the P4K but absolutely nothing would tempt me into buying into a new MFT camera and new lenses.

I've just got three of my cameras out (GX80,S5ii and Fp) which have similar-ish focal length lenses to illustrate my broader point about MFT.

If the G9ii is - as I understand it - even anywhere close to the size one in the middle then a shark has not only been jumped but pole vaulted over.

Whilst the S5ii is the elephant in the room when it comes to a choice of buying into a new MFT camera, the Fp is the elephant in the room when it comes to where the system should have gone.

An updated GX80 with all the bells and whistles of the G9ii in a form factor somewhere between the GX80 and Fp (which lest we forget has a proper cooling system) would have made me interested as it fits with the original ethos.

The lenses are another example of where compact has gone with MFT when I look at a couple of my lenses.

They are not the same focal length but still it illustrates how the size has increased from the original ethos of those original pancake lenses like the 20mm here and the 14mm if you want to take the next step up.

And of course the Sigma here is actually pretty compact in relative terms to the latter primes and zooms from Panasonic.

Coming ?

It has been there in the DJI guise - and modesty forbids me to mention from another bijou manufacturer too - for well over three years.

With regard to anamorphic, the support for aligned multi motors means that the smaller manufacturer also provides AF for dual focus anamorphic setups 🙂 

All that Panasonic is doing with DJI for non manual lenses is basically what that other guy does with Blackmagic in that it uses the LIDAR to control the camera's internal focus motors. 

If Panasonic had opened their control protocol up in the same way as BMD then the other guy would have done the same for Panasonic cameras three years ago.

So they are playing catchup more than innovating to be honest.

The innovation would have been for Panasonic to integrate LIDAR into the cameras themselves.

Manufacturer maybe but Sony E and Nikon Z users have been able to do this for quite a few years using the TechART such as my A7Rii with a Voigtlander here.

In terms of "easy AF on MF lenses" it is actually much easier to use than an outboard LIDAR system too for several reasons as well.

It also brings me back to another comparison between that A7Rii and a GX80 with a similar f1.4 focal length lens.

Not only is the A7Rii full frame, it too also has IBIS too and the AF with that MF lens is far snappier than the MFT setup at a marginal overall size increase.

Maybe I actually should throw that GX80 out of the pram after all 😉 

 

That 20mm Lumix pancake was a gem. It isn't all about size of course, but about differentiating your toolset from the others. There's a market for all sorts if it makes sense. Shoehorning a M43 mount onto an S5 II speaks of a lack of ideas or clear differentiation.

A competitor like Panasonic on 4-5% market share vs Canon at 45% needs those unique selling points. They can't just copy Canon and Sony.

It all goes to show that Panasonic have completely lost sight of what made Micro Four Thirds special.

It's one thing for the S5 II to be full frame with large lenses, and a body that isn't nearly as compact as the full frame cameras I've pictured above alongside!

It can get away with it because insanely good value for money is on offer, and you're getting the largest possible sensor for the money and best image quality. Lacking in the charm department though.

Let's take a look back through memory lane to when Panasonic was one of the most creative and differentiated manufacturers vs the boring samey DSLRs.

This thing was a true one off, a thing of beauty and speaks volumes about Japanese design culture.

It does not kowtoe to the Americans in the slightest bit.

Once LUMIX in the US realised their customers just want to turn up in front of a client with the most "PRO" and biggest intimidating piece of kit imaginable (think RED), all that went out the window.

You have to partially blame the customer.

People do not value the more interesting designs in significant enough numbers, at least not in the same volume as they value BIG PRO DICK SWINGING COMPETITIONS

I could think of a GAZILLION designs of camera that GH6 sensor would be more at home in and more interesting in.

At least Fujifilm continue to stick to their guns and bring out systems that make sense.

Hell, they even have a medium format PANCAKE!

I absolutely love the design of the GFX 100 II and that thing is tiny compared to what medium format used to be or a large format cinema camera.

If you're going to go DSLR size then it has to either be all out like the GFX 100 II or a Sony a1, or good value for money with sensible compromises.

What I don't get with Panasonic though is a sense of culture in their products any more. The S5 body was never that well designed in the first place or satisfying to pick up. It felt like the team behind the G100 got a promotion.

That thing is basically a Canon G5X knock off in the design and ergonomics department.

It has no soul.

You only see the abyss when you look at it. The capitulation of Micro Four Thirds as a system.

When I look at the S5 II and G9 II I see a well meaning intention and to deliver to a certain price.

It is by no means a bad deal, but what happened culturally at Panasonic to go from a GH1 or LC1 to a fucking G100!?

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

A7R2 sucks at video quality. 

Come on, it really doesn't suck.

30 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Codec for 4K and colors on the GX85 are so much better, no contest.

Its odd then after how after I "persuaded" the GX80/85 to be able to have Cinelike D that there was a subsequent mass obsession with trying to get VLOG on it.

😉 

6 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

GX85 Ibis for video smokes the A7Rs stabilisation by a big margin

Physics determines this to be true of course for most smaller sensor versus large sensor comparisons, until very recently where the gap has closed somewhat.

So its all part of the +/- mix.

Is it enough for me ?

Personally yes but I'm also a bit old fashioned with regard to using those three legged (or one legged) things that you can put underneath cameras so I'm not fully reliant on it.

11 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Photos on the A7r2 are of course high resolution FF goodness. But with good light both produce great results.

Which completely rebalances everything in the equation.

Any perceived gap in video performance in favour of the GX80/85 is completely blown out of the water by the gulf in favour of the A7Rii when it comes to stills.

Being able to plug a microphone into it doesn't do it much harm either.

 

[Davide DB]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is by no means a bad deal, but what happened culturally at Panasonic to go from a GH1 or LC1 to a fucking G100!?

You have enough material for a spicy new episode on youtube 😉

 

[kye]

Note: none of my commentary is personally directed at you, I'm merely replying to you as a way to share my thoughts 🙂 

It's useful to talk about the various merits of different systems in more depth than the typically "meme-deep" level of analysis in discussions.

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not sure why you are couching it in such dramatic terms as people throwing their cameras out of the pram.

It wasn't you that was doing it, but it was definitely that dramatic.  If I had the time and inclination I could go back and find a torrent of "MFT is dead" "if the GH6 isn't PDAF then Panasonic will go out of business" "4K isn't enough" "6K isn't enough" "36MP stills might be enough, but if I could get 48MP...." "you need at least 13 stops of DR" "I'm selling everything because I can't afford to stay invested in a system that is dying" etc from other forum users.

If you don't remember those nuggets of ridiculousness over the last 5 years of forum posts then you're a much more happy-go-lucky and forgive-and-forget type of person than I am!  I had to stop rolling my eyes when I read those lest I develop some sort of permanent vertigo-like medical condition.

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I didn't stop buying new Lumix MFT cameras post the GX80 in some fit of pique, its because the form factor of the new ones became increasingly at odds with the point of the system.

Everyone seems to have decided that the point of MFT was smaller cameras, but where was that declared?  and who has the power to decide that?  If we start dictating the size of the camera by the size of the sensor then Apple has been making iPhones far too large for their tiny sensors and so the next iPhone should be a 2" display maximum!  Maybe the G9 should have been a lot smaller and a lot more difficult to use for people with large hands!

Personally, I want cameras to get better and smaller but not in that order, and I'm definitely on record for those preferences, but to say that size was the point of MFT I think is missing something.

When you flex the size of the sensor you change more than just the size of the camera body you're wrapping around it, you start trading off things like exposure vs low-light vs DoF vs heat vs mass (important for IBIS) and probably a bunch of other things too.  We have sensors that range from S16 to 65mm (and further) and I would say that there is no reference so everything is relative, but it's not relative because there is a reference.  

The reference is human vision and perception.

For human vision, we tend to see across a range of brightness levels and have various depth-of-fields as our iris opens and closes and we focus closer and further away and have noise and loss of colour perception in very low-light conditions.  I would say that the best sensor size would be one that is able to fully reproduce that behaviour, with a bit of extra leeway for creative purposes and practicality of use, of course.

If you look at the current market and the low-light and DoF vs distance performance and take into account the lens availability then I think you end up somewhere around MFT/S35.  

Modern FF camera / lens combinations wide open at F2 or F2.8 seem too shallow in DoF to me to seem unnatural, and are definitely way shallower than is used in almost all tasteful story-driven cinema.  That combination is also far more capable in low-light than is needed to recreate anything remotely natural-looking either.  On the other end of the spectrum, S16 seems to be difficult to work with in low-light and getting shallow-enough DoF is too expensive and lenses selection is too narrow to match what seems to match human vision.  ....and we all know that smartphones have no chance with either of these things, which is why they're going computational to try and fight the laws of physics.

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The lenses are another example of where compact has gone with MFT when I look at a couple of my lenses.

They are not the same focal length but still it illustrates how the size has increased from the original ethos of those original pancake lenses like the 20mm here and the 14mm if you want to take the next step up.

The 14mm is a much simpler lens - 7 elements in 5 groups:

The Sigma is much more complex - 16 elements in 13 groups:

The difference I see between them is the pursuit of optical perfection, which makes all lenses significantly larger, especially when they switch optical recipes to make them better, but it makes them much larger.  Ironically, the more that people talk about sharp lenses and high resolutions and shallow DoF the more that manufacturers make the lenses bigger.

Not to say I told you so, but I did, and everyone screwed it up for me as well as themselves.

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Coming ?

It has been there in the DJI guise - and modesty forbids me to mention from another bijou manufacturer too - for well over three years.

Of course! I'd forgotten you mapped this territory early on!

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

With regard to anamorphic, the support for aligned multi motors means that the smaller manufacturer also provides AF for dual focus anamorphic setups 🙂 

That's a seriously cool feature - I must have missed that when you were talking about it.

Do you have links to the relevant info?  Please post 🙂 

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not only is the A7Rii full frame, it too also has IBIS too and the AF with that MF lens is far snappier than the MFT setup at a marginal overall size increase.

Yes, IBIS, another thing that MFT has a huge advantage over FF with, but the manufacturers deliberately hide and forum folks steadfastly refuse to learn about.

Manufacturers rate IBIS in STOPS, which is the amount any vibration is reduced by the mechanism while the mechanism is working within its mechanical limits.  

As soon as you move the camera too far and the mechanism runs out of travel then the movement can't be reduced any more:

• FF camera needs to move the sensor twice as far as an MFT camera would need to move its sensor to achieve the same motion reduction.
• If the sensors are the same thickness and density, a FF camera needs to move around four times as much weight as the MFT sensor..  It is also likely to reduce how fast the mechanism can move the sensor, and a slower mechanism lets through more high-frequency motion, which is the most aesthetically offensive motion.  This all takes battery power too.

As someone who shoots exclusively hand-held with IBIS cameras, I can tell you that the stabilisation fails because the movements are too large for the IBIS mechanism, it doesn't fail because there aren't enough stops of reduction.  I have never used a FF camera with IBIS, but I find it unlikely that they've scaled up the IBIS mechanism to twice the size of the MFT one and juiced it up to move the sensor as quickly, so it will likely perform far more poorly in real life than an MFT equivalent.

But, this is yet another thing that isn't talked about, isn't understood, and no-one tests in anything remotely approaching a scientific way.

[PannySVHS]

Indeed, that cream colored GH1 is a beauty. Got myself a dark red G1 and a fire red GM5 two months ago. Beauty and usuability and unique experience go along well with Pana classics.

The G9 could be the best video monster in the sub 2000 / 3000 market. Time will tell. I accept the fact that Panasonic went powerhouse performance and good handling over sheer beauty.

With design it's about little details. I liked the body of the GF1 much better regarding looks than the one from the very, very similar GX1. That changed over the years. Since having never owned a GX1 and having sold my GF, my next camera will be a GX with the additional EVF sometime sooner or later. Need to check the colors to choose from. The metallic grey is so ugly, it' s already pretty again, reminding me of some 80ies motion picture futurism.

Here is my newest and possibly prettiest  Mft gem, which I am super pumped about to finally own by now after years of yearning. The beauty of all mft beauties, the one to adore from the heart, the queen of lines and light, the Lumix GM5.😊

 

Video on the A7RII might not suck but is very underwhelming compared to the cute lil GX85 which is pretty impressive for being 8bit. Even the A7SII underwhelmed big time with a gruesome codec and a brittle crayon color palette at 400 ISO compared to the GX. I still have to test your Cine D hack, also on my quirky yet powerful LX15. @BTM_Pix Love your awesome posts as well as I enjoy our different perspectives! 😊

[SRV1981]

12 hours ago, Emanuel said:

There are better acquisition devices IQ-wise out there :- )

really helpful, thanks!

[BTM_Pix]

3 hours ago, kye said:

none of my commentary is personally directed at you, I'm merely replying to you as a way to share my thoughts 🙂 

I have acute Main Character Syndrome.

Its always about me.

3 hours ago, kye said:

If you don't remember those nuggets of ridiculousness over the last 5 years of forum posts then you're a much more happy-go-lucky and forgive-and-forget type of person than I am!

I pride myself on my Morrissey levels of unhappy-go-pesimistic and deep seated lifelong grudges so I doubt its that.

I just accept that people talk a lot of shit on the internet.

And that a lot of people are hysterical Marys.

Hence, my ignore list is extensive.

3 hours ago, kye said:

Everyone seems to have decided that the point of MFT was smaller cameras, but where was that declared? and who has the power to decide that? 

Well, to be fair, its right there on the front page of their organisation that does have the power to decide that.

"Micro Four Thirds is a versatile and highly mobile system that meets all kinds of photographers' needs and chases an optimal balance of high image quality, compactness and lightweight in cameras with interchangeable lenses."

https://www.four-thirds.org/en/

The semantics can be argued regarding the relativity of the elements of the balance but there is no doubt that the thrust of it is in the direction of smaller.

Otherwise, what would be the point of differentiation or even mentioning it.

They could have saved some space and just put:

"Micro Four Thirds is a versatile system that meets all kinds of photographers' needs in cameras with interchangeable lenses"

3 hours ago, kye said:

Personally, I want cameras to get better and smaller but not in that order, and I'm definitely on record for those preferences, but to say that size was the point of MFT I think is missing something.

Then I have misunderstood a whole swathe of your posts in regard to this matter.

My understanding was that one of your primary desires was for a camera that had the discretion necessary for you not to be ejected from museums and galleries.

3 hours ago, kye said:

When you flex the size of the sensor you change more than just the size of the camera body you're wrapping around it, you start trading off things like exposure vs low-light vs DoF vs heat vs mass (important for IBIS) and probably a bunch of other things too.  

Which is why I would advocate for and made the point for the more demanding internals of the GX80 to be housed in something faintly approaching but not matching the Fp but with its heat management system.

It would be entirely possible so making the cameras in the form factor of the G9ii is a choice not a necessity.

Which is perfectly fine because its their choice.

And its my choice in terms of buying it.

So we all get our own way in the end.

3 hours ago, kye said:

The Sigma is much more complex - 16 elements in 13 groups:

Its actually 9 in 7.

It does APS-C coverage and is a bit faster too so it is to be expected.

3 hours ago, kye said:

That's a seriously cool feature - I must have missed that when you were talking about it.

Do you have links to the relevant info?  Please post 🙂 

There is a specific lens type that can be calibrated called "LINK"

It is similar in terms of connection to the "FIZ" option in that it uses the MMX multi mode expander option but only uses two motors.

Unlike "FIZ" where the AFX gives you independent control of each motor, the two motors in "LINK" mode are as the name suggests linked.

During calibration, you adjust the focus of the anamorphic lens with one motor and the focus of the taking lens with the other motor until the image is in focus.

Once calibrated, the motors then automatically move the two lenses to their respective focus points based on the distance to the subject detected.

3 hours ago, kye said:

Yes, IBIS, another thing that MFT has a huge advantage over FF with, but the manufacturers deliberately hide and forum folks steadfastly refuse to learn about.

It did but the gap is much narrower now.

I'm very surprised - pleasantly so - by how good it is on the S5ii.

But all of that goodness is relative to within the context of how you view IBIS anyway.

The irretrievably destructive nature of it in terms of the distortion of the image (not just in the "that doesn't look steady") is what puts me off it far more than the "is it actually looking stable" or the perceived "oh it looks too floaty for me" aspect.

The double whammy with this is that it not always easy to see what it has done when you are looking on a small monitor/EVF so you tend not to find out until its too late.

Tripods and balanced shoulder rigs still remain by far the better and safest option but its not always practical of course so its all just part of those compromises when you aren't in control of the environment.

3 hours ago, kye said:

But, this is yet another thing that isn't talked about, isn't understood, and no-one tests in anything remotely approaching a scientific way.

I do have a way of testing IBIS systems that involves putting a 1/4 20 mounting point on something that has repeatable and controllable degrees of small lateral movements but I suspect that using the item that I have in mind would mean that the results would only be available on OnlyFans.

[newfoundmass]

I think, when it comes to M43, Panasonic is stuck trying to win over a segment of the market that simply will never buy a M43 camera. YouTubers have moved on to full frame to film themselves on a tripod in their "studio" aka basement, garage, or spare bedroom. Even if M43 leaned into the strengths of the system those folks will never buy in. 

Obviously they have more data than all of us, so maybe focusing on niche users just isn't viable. But it's hard to imagine that trying to win over folks that have moved on to larger sensors because they're "better" is a recipe for success. 

I loved the GH5. It was a game changer for me. But it was released during a very different time. You could overlook the increase in size because it had best in class features that no other mirrorless camera had. Everyone caught up though.

I don't think there will ever come a time when I'll be all in on M43 again. But I absolutely would be open to dipping my toe back into the system if they released a compelling camera that could be a good b or c cam, or even an a cam when I'm trying to not draw attention. But it needs to offer something that others don't. For me, that's a feature rich (within reason), stable, and small camera. 

[PannySVHS]

So my two cents and a dime and 1798.88 Euros on the new kid on the block and a bit of a fan song to the M43 system, not overpowering all you other fans of course.:) So here in all modesty:

M43 has the largest variety of camera bodies, with some of the prettiest cameras on the planet. I imagine prices rising for some of them like the GX1 has been lately. Same with the two GM cameras. Others prices are sinking, becoming super affordable. Saw a used GH5 for 400 Eu!

To me, M43 would be the most attractive video system if they had the image of the GH6 combined with the high resolving soft look of the GH5 II. So for now my S1H has to offer me that. Codecs, framerates, AF are already a winner on the G9 II. If it fullfills the promise of combining the image quality of a GH5 II and GH6, I will get one some time next year unless there are some streaking or other oddities showing.

In the video department this camera might smoke all the APSC models regarding overall image quality, frame rates, usuability, battery life and heat management. It surely has some of the best and most robust codecs in the industry on board, both in flavors of All Intra and Long Gop. If HD is of perfect quality, this could be a HD Prores cinema dream machine as well. Let the reviews coming. The ones from slashcam and Richard Wong show a very interesting beast of a video monster machine. Richard Wongs OOC Jpegs showcased some impressve colors as well!

Panasonic has awakened the Godzilla once again after the inferno that the GH4 caused in the Dslm video market and the thunderstorm that was the GH5! Full frame step aside, your overheated performance and no light obsession is put to ridicule by the towering new kid on the block, the powerful Godzilla Lumix G9 mighty Mark II!😊

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, kye said:

If I had the time and inclination I could go back and find a torrent of "MFT is dead" "if the GH6 isn't PDAF then Panasonic will go out of business" "4K isn't enough" "6K isn't enough" "36MP stills might be enough, but if I could get 48MP...." "you need at least 13 stops of DR" "I'm selling everything because I can't afford to stay invested in a system that is dying" etc from other forum users.

The thing is they are right about PDAF though aren't they?

Who is going to want a GH6 now, with crap AF and $300 more than the G9 II?

In the same price range as an S5 II?

It's toast.

They will probably have to do a GH6 II with PDAF now to keep it selling.

Which begs the question, why did they bring it out last year at all, better they had waited and got a strategy together that makes sense.

There is nothing about the S5 II, GH6 and G9 II that makes sense.

One is too cheap, one is dead, and the other is a full frame camera with the wrong sensor in it!!

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

With design it's about little details. I liked the body of the GF1 much better regarding looks than the one from the very, very similar GX1.

Yes it is about little details like that, which can add up and make a totally different impression.

It is also about the big details too like what the point of it existing is.

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Here is my newest and possibly prettiest  Mft gem, which I am super pumped about to finally own by now after years of yearning. The beauty of all mft beauties, the one to adore from the heart, the queen of lines and light, the Lumix GM5.😊

That is quite alluring and really quite rare as GM5 wasn't made for long, I find it tricky to across one on eBay at all, let alone in red, let alone for under £600.

Take that crap lens off it though 😉

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Video on the A7RII might not suck but is very underwhelming compared to the cute lil GX85 which is pretty impressive for being 8bit. Even the A7SII underwhelmed big time with a gruesome codec and a brittle crayon color palette at 400 ISO compared to the GX. I still have to test your Cine D hack, also on my quirky yet powerful LX15. @BTM_Pix Love your awesome posts as well as I enjoy our different perspectives! 😊

The trick with those Sonys is to use a gamma curve rich in tonality and contrast, along with a wide colour gamut like S.Gamut.3, and play around with the extensive settings to find something you like. This was the principal of EOSHD Pro Color. Punchy straight off card cinema on a stick, but not with Sony's colours. The wider colour gamuts really help to avoid the clipping, Bart Simpson skin tones, and other issues... Also you have to take care with the white balance, that also makes a big difference. The codec is alright. Not enough data rate or bit depth for S-LOG3 but you can get away with baked in colour profiles and a bit of S-LOG2.

Just to touch on big details again, in the design of a camera...

GH6 should have had that big detail called a built in ND filter and done internal ProRes the way Fuji has with LT option for reasonable file sizes. They should also have had new cinema film stock emulations in there or at least provided the LUTs already installed on the camera. The GH6 should also have had PDAF. These are major details. Then the ergonomics, buttons, tactile feel of the dials, etc. could all have been done better, they are naff.

S5 II if I were planning it would have been positioned as a cheaper full frame camera to compete with EOS R8, but with the classic styling of a Fuji X series cam to draw in the photography crowd, who see Pana as more a microwave oven and camcorder provider. The S5 II is uncomfortably high specced especially for video and really crashes the GH6 and S1H party. In fact it wades in and trashes the place.

The G9 II on the other hand would have been a MUCH more Leica affair with emphasis on video. Why do we need the GH6 video features twice on two almost identically specced machines at a similar price?

[PannySVHS]

Great writing! @Andrew ReidMakes me think. Yes, the GH7 should have been a no holding back masterpiece of a camera, also with a choice of various crop modes. The 1.4 S16 crop was traded for a pixel to pixel crop, being closer to 16mm film width. Panasonic should have also included various aspect ratios, like S16 1:1.6, etc.

 

22 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

That is quite alluring and really quite rare as GM5 wasn't made for long, I find it tricky to across one on eBay at all, let alone in red, let alone for under £600.

Take that crap lens off it though 😉

That lens is being parked on the og bmpcc, providing contrast af cinematic camera operation.😊 My GM5 came at a very good price. Got the whole package for 275 EU. Shortly after I found a G1 and G3 for 28 Eu with postage included. Black G3 is an ugly lil thing though but beautiful in function. Love the menu on the G1. Like a computer game for preschoolers😁

[BTM_Pix]

43 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The thing is they are right about PDAF though aren't they?

I often wondered what would come first, Panasonic putting PDAF in an MFT camera or aliens being discovered.

Based on whats going on in Mexico today it looks like Panasonic just about won that contest.

Maybe the aliens had them under an NDA.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The perfect unit for me would be the current X100V but with interchangeable lenses such and I’d even consider a zoom like Sigmas 18-50 (27-75) f2.8. Or fixed lens like the one in the LC1 which was what, 28-90 or something?

🤨

What about a X-E4?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Keep your little MFT gem! 🙂  @BTM_Pix GX85 with the MF Laowa 17mm F1.8 is tiny, with the Oly 17mm 1.8 even moreso. A7R2 sucks at video quality.  Codec for 4K and colors on the GX85 are so much better, no contest. GX85 Ibis for video smokes the A7Rs stabilisation by a big margin..

Photos on the A7r2 are of course high resolution FF goodness. But with good light both produce great results. Pixel count on the Sony is more than twice of course, resolution 1.5 as high (pixel per axis). Oly EM10III seems like it is another tiny mft gem and little powerhouse. I might reread Andrews review of it showing off perfect downsampled 4k. Battery life is pretty nice with the Lumix as well. And, it's pretty. I am a great fan of Mft. Now, Panasonic, give us 10bit Pdaf GX and LX cameras.

I fact...OM Digital could have the best budget camera today if they will. Even just need to make the same thing that they did with the OM-5 - put a superior camera (the E-M1 MK II) in a smaller body (E-M5 MK III).

Put the EM-5 MK III internals on a E-M10 body, PDAF included, bring back the "full" menus from the E-M10 MK II (could keep the simplified menu for newbies, make it an option), and sell it for $499. $599 even.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

And about size: my last mft camera (and the best, loved it) and my current APS-C camera.

The one on the right have 6.2k open gate 10-bit 4:2:2, in H265 or All-I. 4k60 with a 1.1x crop. 1080p120 fps (did not count the 240fps option because is crap), a huge battery, and PDAF (in fact, the AF works much better than I expected, after the last firmware update).

Lenses? Yep, the Fuji branded ones are bigger, but not so much. And a Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 is the same size of the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8, even being made for a larger sensor - yep, don't have OIS, but IBIS takes good care of it, and is even much cheaper. The Nocticrons are small, too.
 

MFT should be the perfect EDC / travel cameras. Newer lenses should take the Sigma zoom route - ditch the OIS and make a 12-35 f/1.8, or a smaller 2.8. Compact f/3.5 zooms. Pancake primes. Make them cool - just look the X100v lesson.

But they gone in the opposite direction.