Panasonic G9 mk2

[SRV1981]

56 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Richard Wong tested better lowlight capabilities than R7 and XH2. No big treat? Like anything else on this camera? I think it is, just like the ne Ibis, AF, Dual Gain and heck what not, possibly even a creamier image for video. Richard Wong did a 2hour+ review!

I like the body of the G9II. The S5, S5II bodies are the best looking FF cameras to my eye. Now, you have been, are and will keep being entitled to your opinions and underlining them from different angles. I understand what you mean but I prefer Richard Wongs input compared to the repeated statements regarding body too big, etc. I think it's perfect size. I see it as a cinema and cinema verité camera par exellence. Whereas the Sony A6xxx series is not a pretty sight to look at and the A7C has just the same kinda body. Scandalous, isn't it!

I am astonished about the G9 II, this new video beast. The unconvinced ones among us, they can repeat their complaints again just like been done before. It will leave me shaking my head due to that lack of appreciation. This thread surely needs some more overheated love for Sony brick cams. Some fresh Sahara winds from freshly fried  brick cam sensors. Some ever searching future Sony camera buyers with the same psalms and unwillingnes of purchase need to chim in more! Big time! Feels good to adapt to the overly cheek in tongue tone of this thread. We all sound like the mighty 30 to 60 year old dudes ruling this world, universe, cultures and greatest of manners, with an appetite and naughtiest of greatest plaisir of judgement. Seen that, done that, been there and all that tasty confidence. Gee, I need a break from some of the lesser intriguing "insights". I'll give you a longer one. I read the word wankers in one thread. Gimme a break. Missing @mercer and many more of the friends of the past. I am sure you do too. The tone in this forum has been lacking for quiete a while now. I'll give myself a break in the sight of overconfidential antics of the latest weeks on Eoshd. I think it's a great last word of this post. I appreciate this new camera and our lovely and dear Eoshd.

 🥴

[kye]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

In terms of the discretion aspect, I'd always maintain that it is the width and particularly the height of the camera body that attracts the attention rather than the depth so the much of a muchness in the height and width means the A7cii will fly  under the same radar as the GX80.

This is my impression as well, and the main difference between the G and GX style bodies that I see.

Even the width isn't so bad considering that the minimum width of your camera when viewed from the front is the width of the lens + the width of your hand on the grip-side.

A seriously low-profile shotgun mic would be spectacular as well - all the commercial offerings are all dramatically larger than they need to be, except perhaps that Sony hot-shoe one which seems to be more compact.

[kye]

3 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

This. Is clear that Panasonic will cut the costs to the max in their M43 line.

Newer lenses? Reash of the older ones.

Newer camera? Use the S5II body.

That's why I think that will never be another GX camera. They think it is not worth it - "smartphones killed it", and maybe they are right.

A new GX would need a serious investiment in a new body. A bigger battery (since all the new cameras have big batteries - is a problem that Fuifilm have too, and their solution probably will never pair the old small battery with a camera with IBIS), 10-bit video, no record limit (for me a camera of this size could easily keep the 30 min record limit for thermal reasons, but since the others are not limiting...), a better evf...can't see they doing that.

They even did not made a newer LX100 with all that demand for X100Vs.

I really hope that you're wrong, but your points make sense and it might simply be how the economics play out.

I'd hope that even if they released an updated GX camera, they could retain the same body/battery/EVF/etc, but offer improved bitrates / frame-rates / profiles.  A GX95 that took advantage of most/all of the modes on the new sensors would be wonderful.

In terms of the idea that smartphones killed cameras of this size, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work, but one that the industry seems to make time and again....  the idea that serious people want a large camera and people who want a small camera don't want quality.
I shoot with the GX85 and iPhone 12 Mini, and I can assure you, the difference in image quality is night and day.  What do I mean by night and day?  I mean, the image quality of the GX85 shooting at night is better than the iPhone shooting during the day!

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't a very good camera, I think people just feel like the system is moving away from what it's potential is/could be.

It's a radically different time than 2017 and the years before spent developing a the GH5. You could overlook the larger size, compared to previous M43 bodies, because it was so much more advanced than anything else out there. 4K 60, 10-bit, IBIS, etc. were all groundbreaking features for the mirrorless market. 

Now though, releasing a camera that is the size of a full frame camera but with a smaller sensor and features that are not significantly better than what is already out there is a harder sell.

Like I said in a previous post, Panasonic probably has the marketing information to back up their decision making, and I absolutely understand that in many ways they are in a no win situation, but I just don't think they are able to compete when it comes to specs, at least not in a significant way. But size and affordability? Those are two things they absolutely could embrace and win some people over. An updated GH5 in a small, compact body at a very competitive price is a more compelling option for a lot of us vs. something like this. But again, it just might not be a feasible thing for them to do.

Or even just simply an old GH4 sensor/specs that is released in a compact Panasonic G3/G5/G6 sized body but with some modern updates: PDAF, IBIS, cellphone app, full size HDMI, compatibility with the newer DMW-XLR1 as the old YAGH was a disaster (greedy me would want the TC from the GH5S as well). 

If you can price this at sub $1K (greedy me would want sub $500) then I reckon you could still find lots of buyers. 

As plenty of us were perfectly happy with the image quality from the old GH4/G7/G6/GH3/etc, but just want the modern newer features of PDAF/IBIS/apps/HDMI/audio/TC/etc (ideally all of them, but at least half of them would be nice) while keeping the smaller size and smaller prices we had in the past with the Panasonic MFT cameras. 

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, kye said:

In terms of the discretion aspect, I'd always maintain that it is the width and particularly the height of the camera body that attracts the attention rather than the depth so the much of a muchness in the height and width

After 23 years of wedding and event photography, even more so is whether the camera is held to the eye (serious) or held at chest height using the rear LCD (less serious).

I adapted to this way of shooting, I don’t know exactly when, but some time between 5-10 years ago as I was transitioning from photographer to hybrid shooter.

Partly because it was easier to work this way, partly due to eyesight and partly because it does cause fewer people to be camera aware.

Dimensions play a part, but so does how we use these things.

Remember steady cam rigs? OK, they are still a thing for some I know, but the amount of attraction they used to get, never mind the Robocop body armour set ups I used to see at weddings.

What’s the saying, ‘tread softly but carry a big stick’.

I’m very much heading back to that ethos with gear going forward.

I know this is @BTM_Pix quote originally but it was easier to not scroll back a page and find that!

[kye]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

After 23 years of wedding and event photography, even more so is whether the camera is held to the eye (serious) or held at chest height using the rear LCD (less serious).

I adapted to this way of shooting, I don’t know exactly when, but some time between 5-10 years ago as I was transitioning from photographer to hybrid shooter.

Partly because it was easier to work this way, partly due to eyesight and partly because it does cause fewer people to be camera aware.

Dimensions play a part, but so does how we use these things.

Remember steady cam rigs? OK, they are still a thing for some I know, but the amount of attraction they used to get, never mind the Robocop body armour set ups I used to see at weddings.

What’s the saying, ‘tread softly but carry a big stick’.

I’m very much heading back to that ethos with gear going forward.

I know this is @BTM_Pix quote originally but it was easier to not scroll back a page and find that!

Good point and I think it's one I have gradually been becoming aware of. 

It's a funny thing, when I was using the GH5 I got used to using the EVF, but since swapping back to the GX85 I went back to using the screen.  

Looking back on it, I think I used the GH5 EVF partly because it provides a third point of contact for stabilising things, and I suspect partly because the flippy screen is a bit of a pain to tilt because you have to pull it out to the side first and then it sort-of gets in the way if your left hand is cradling the camera and operating the lens.

I have vague memories about thinking it felt odd to swap to the EVF when I did that, and then that it was odd to go back to using the screen when I changed back, but after you get used to something then it becomes second nature.  

I definitely notice that people immediately look at you when you raise a camera to your eye...  

[BTM_Pix]

18 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I like the body of the G9II. The S5, S5II bodies are the best looking FF cameras to my eye. Now, you have been, are and will keep being entitled to your opinions and underlining them from different angles. I understand what you mean but I prefer Richard Wongs input compared to the repeated statements regarding body too big, etc. I think it's perfect size. I see it as a cinema and cinema verité camera par exellence.

It is undoubtedly a powerhouse of a camera internally  relative to older MFT cameras but it can't be dismissed that the body they have put it in opens up a discussion not only about the camera comparatively as a package itself but also the direction of travel for MFT from Panasonic.

The bald truth here is that they have put it inside the body of the S5ii and are selling it for the same price.

In a world without the S5ii, I could kind of make the case for it as it is likely to be the peak of MFT but the S5ii does exist, I already own it and it just makes this look weird. 

Its like they have put the inside of a Ford Fiesta inside a Ford Transit.

Seriously, if you walked into a shop today with €1800 burning a hole in your pocket and they were there side by side on the shelf which one are you taking home ?

The full frame with the expanding lens system via more companies actively joining the system as well as options to do RAW video out if you needed it in the future (or straight to the 5iiX for a few hundred more and get ProRes) or the one that doesn't have that and is in a lens system that one of the most active 3rd party manufacturers has now stopped making new designs for ?

Outside of the three Sigma MFT lenses (which they won't be adding to) fast primes are slower and more expensive than their L mount full frame equivalents now.

The last four years has changed the landscape for L mount lenses going from hugely expensive and a limited range to having a much broader lineup at very good prices with the only gap being in the long end.

The compact primes that we all had/have and love like the 14mm, 20mm, Oly 45mm 1.8 etc are still available and are genuine bargains and size appropriate for the generation of MFT cameras that they were released around but where do they fit in with the G9ii and on ?

For one thing, balance wise it will be like a Hummer pulling a shopping trolley but what of the AF performance ?

I can tell you from experience with making an autofocus system that uses MFT lenses that those lenses are a little bit clunky.

I'd be interested to see if anyone tests the new PDAF with those type of lenses to determine whether its a swings and roundabouts situation.

Again, none of this is ragging on the internals of the G9ii or even the camera as a whole when looked at in isolation in a world where the S5ii doesn't exist but if MFT is to survive then they need to sell these cameras and in the real world where the S5ii does exist, it is difficult to know how someone walking into a shop to compare them would walk out with the former.

However, I know a lot of MFT users are bird photographers so the as yet lack of long lenses in L mount and the improved AF might give the G9ii a comfortable niche but it is debatable whether that represents enough to keep MFT going in this same price/same size as Full Frame format that Panasonic have come up with here.

18 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Whereas the Sony A6xxx series is not a pretty sight to look at and the A7C has just the same kinda body.

Again, just to clarify that I introduced the A7cii into this discussion with regard to what Panasonic could have done to bring the powerhouse internals of the G9ii into a more compact form familiar to those of us who have their previous cameras.

Basically, the decision to put it in the body of an S5ii was a free choice rather than a necessity.

A decision that some will agree with and some won't depending on what they want out of the system.

For me, as I say, I already have the S5ii so have no interest in paying the same price to buy what is effectively a crippled version of it 😄

That was tongue in cheek by the way. Kind of.

[BTM_Pix]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:06 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Nothing would tempt me into buying into a new MFT camera and new lenses

Well, that vow lasted a little more than 24 hours in terms of the camera at least as I'm now likely to buy the new BMD Micro Studio camera!

In my defence :

a) It is for a specific Live/ATEM related need rather than general use.

b) I am fickle.

I'm not going to bang the Panasonic putting MFT into oversized bodies and charging premium prices drum further but I did have half an eye their BGH1 box camera for this role but it is 75% bigger, 81% heavier and 132% more expensive than the BMD Micro Studio camera.

When it comes to MFT, Panasonic are more or less cosplaying Benny Hill in The Italian Job at this point.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

7 hours ago, kye said:

I definitely notice that people immediately look at you when you raise a camera to your eye...  

Yep - but not so much when it is a "rangefinder"-esque camera. That's why I prefer it, not because of nostalgia.

But...no new GXs, no Oly Pen-F II (the E-M5s / E-M10s do not attract too much too), Fuji dumbed down the X-E4 and probably will never put a IBIS on it, the X-Pros are beautiful but kinda big, the Nikon Z30 lack an EVF and IBIS...it is a shame that only Sony makes rangefinder cameras with EVF, IBIS, good af and good video.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

After 23 years of wedding and event photography, even more so is whether the camera is held to the eye (serious) or held at chest height using the rear LCD (less serious).

I adapted to this way of shooting, I don’t know exactly when, but some time between 5-10 years ago as I was transitioning from photographer to hybrid shooter.

Partly because it was easier to work this way, partly due to eyesight and partly because it does cause fewer people to be camera aware.

Dimensions play a part, but so does how we use these things.

Remember steady cam rigs? OK, they are still a thing for some I know, but the amount of attraction they used to get, never mind the Robocop body armour set ups I used to see at weddings.

What’s the saying, ‘tread softly but carry a big stick’.

I’m very much heading back to that ethos with gear going forward.

I know this is @BTM_Pix quote originally but it was easier to not scroll back a page and find that!

About size: if I work with still / video, the G9II will not be a problem at all. But as an amateur, using on the streets or travelling - yep, attracts attention.

And about form factor (and since it would need a completely new retooling): big attracts attention, too small is bad to hold. Ideal: big grip with small body. Since small cameras with larger grips always get complaints about "pinky" finger without support, and since I agree that thickness of the camera does not attract attention and almost nobody complains about it...why not make the Sigma Quattro H style the other way around?

Make the grip tall, and the body smaller. The battery could be slimmer and taller, making room for components  / IBIS / EVF on the body. The camera part that is "seen" on hand would be small.

One problem: would not stand up by itself on a table. Just make a sliding "feet" on the opposing side of the grip - it even could be double duty as a port cover.

[mercer]

I read a lot of this post and here are my two cents... cool camera... too expensive... too big/ugly.

I briefly used a GH6 and although it was rather utilitarian and not small... the body felt good in the hands and the dual hinged screen was amazing. The extra depth for the fan, didn't seem awkward. The only qualm I had with the camera, which was big, was noise in the midtones. I wish I had more time with the camera because I think there may have been a work around if I kept testing, but unfortunately I just didn't have the time to dissect it. I may give it another go because having internal ProRes and amazing IBIS was such a great combo for my needs...

It felt like the closest thing to a Cinecorder (another term coined by @BTM_Pix ) since my time with the FZ2500. The GH6, in my opinion, is the most underrated camera to come out in the past few years.

The G9ii seems cool too... when the price drops.

[ntblowz]

They are showing G9II body in Japan atm. 

[Davide DB]

Nobody cares but from a underwater video operator POV (mine 😁) Pana budget choice of reusing the same body could be a good one. 

It happens once in a blue moon that two camera share the same body and control layout and this seems to be the case.

Nauticam has already a reasonably priced uw housing for the S5 II (3350€ vs 4050€ of GH6)and this seems to be fully compatible.

To be seen the 120mm port diameter for the FF lens.

https://www.nauticam.com/collections/panasonic-mirrorless-housings/products/s5ii-underwater-housing-for-panasonic-lumix-s5ii-x-camera

 

[Yannick Willox]

In Belgium the S5 II is 2500 euro and the G9 II is 1900 euro. At 1500 I would buy it today...

But one has to remember, when the GH5 came out it was priced 1999 dollar, and it was considered a very correct price.

The G9 ii is a much better camera, and inflation happened ... (1999 in 2017 is 2450 dollar right now)

[ntblowz]

29 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

In Belgium the S5 II is 2500 euro and the G9 II is 1900 euro. At 1500 I would buy it today...

But one has to remember, when the GH5 came out it was priced 1999 dollar, and it was considered a very correct price.

The G9 ii is a much better camera, and inflation happened ... (1999 in 2017 is 2450 dollar right now)

Well competition is way fierce now from Sony, Canon, Fujifilm offer 4k60p and or 4k120p in a slightly bigger sensor.

I m keen to see what the price will be next year for G9II, might be my return to M43 again after GH5S was my last m43 cam before I jumped to FF 

[kye]

So, the question no-one seems to be asking is that if the G9ii has the same sensor as the GH6, and the G9ii has PDAF, why doesn't the GH6 have PDAF?

Either they're not the same sensor, or the GH6 shipped without the feature supported.

[BTM_Pix]

29 minutes ago, kye said:

Either they're not the same sensor, or the GH6 shipped without the feature supported.

Panasonic announcing PDAF in a firmware update for the GH6 next month like this.

[ntblowz]

8 hours ago, kye said:

So, the question no-one seems to be asking is that if the G9ii has the same sensor as the GH6, and the G9ii has PDAF, why doesn't the GH6 have PDAF?

Either they're not the same sensor, or the GH6 shipped without the feature supported.

Would they do a Canon where the OG C100 shipped without dual pixel AF enabled, later you can send in to get it enabled.

[kye]

49 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Would they do a Canon where the OG C100 shipped without dual pixel AF enabled, later you can send in to get it enabled.

Interesting that you had to send it in.  I'm assuming that doing firmware updates was a common practice at that time?  If so, then it must have needed more than a firmware update.  I wonder why.

[Davide DB]

I don't understand how it could be a firmware update.

Any paper on PDAF technology (on mirrorless/phones) explains that the sensor must have specialized photodiodes. The number varies with the accuracy and speed of the autofocus.