Fuji GFX 100 II official launch

[androidlad]

@Attila Bakos You wanna check for chroma smoothing using the SOOC video sampleS in this link? https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_gfx_100_ii_review

 

 

[Attila Bakos]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:12 PM, androidlad said:

@Attila Bakos You wanna check for chroma smoothing using the SOOC video sampleS in this link? https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_gfx_100_ii_review

Thanks for the link, but it's really hard to judge from these samples. From what I see I don't think Fuji changed anything, but I'll keep checking when new samples pop up.
I spent quite some time recently to see how they handle skin tone colors compared to Canon. They try to equalize hue and luminosity to an extent we still consider natural when looking at it. It already hides some of the skin issues, but you don't even notice this unless you compare to an other camera. Then there is the chroma smoothing which adds another layer of flattening, so I tend to think this is all on purpose, to produce a flat looking skin, which is something a lot of people love. For this reason I don't think Fuji would ever remove this "feature", unless the majority of people start to demand something else.
 

[Kino]

This camera has impressive image quality, even in the pixel-binned (or line-skipped) 4K and 4K/60p modes. The aliasing is also very slight. It's a great achievement for a 12K sensor.

The only potential issue I can see is the IBIS compatibility with gimbals. The Mediastorm review mentions this as a problem, but most of the other footage I've seen looks just fine. I'm not sure if there are settings that reduce the high-frequency vibration they experienced:

 

[kye]

17 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

Thanks for the link, but it's really hard to judge from these samples. From what I see I don't think Fuji changed anything, but I'll keep checking when new samples pop up.
I spent quite some time recently to see how they handle skin tone colors compared to Canon. They try to equalize hue and luminosity to an extent we still consider natural when looking at it. It already hides some of the skin issues, but you don't even notice this unless you compare to an other camera. Then there is the chroma smoothing which adds another layer of flattening, so I tend to think this is all on purpose, to produce a flat looking skin, which is something a lot of people love. For this reason I don't think Fuji would ever remove this "feature", unless the majority of people start to demand something else.

I would tend to agree with your assessment that it's deliberate and they'll continue with it.

If it was accidental then it's a pretty amazing thing to screw up.  Also, while it seems to do enormous "damage" to the video from a technical point of view, the images all looked absolutely fine to me from an aesthetic point of view, so the probability they accidentally created a problem that large that didn't look worse is basically zero.

It's yet another example of how you can make huge changes to the video signal and they can be invisible or even desirable - being "accurate" is the starting point of the creative process rather than the goal itself.

[androidlad]

On 9/23/2023 at 8:44 AM, Attila Bakos said:

Thanks for the link, but it's really hard to judge from these samples. From what I see I don't think Fuji changed anything, but I'll keep checking when new samples pop up.
I spent quite some time recently to see how they handle skin tone colors compared to Canon. They try to equalize hue and luminosity to an extent we still consider natural when looking at it. It already hides some of the skin issues, but you don't even notice this unless you compare to an other camera. Then there is the chroma smoothing which adds another layer of flattening, so I tend to think this is all on purpose, to produce a flat looking skin, which is something a lot of people love. For this reason I don't think Fuji would ever remove this "feature", unless the majority of people start to demand something else.
 

8K ProRes Flog2 footage download:

 

[androidlad]

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/how-fast-is-the-gfx-100-ii-electronic-shutter/

Readout speed for GFX 100 II is the same as the 100, 100S??

[Attila Bakos]

21 hours ago, androidlad said:

8K ProRes Flog2 footage download:

Thank you, the smoothing is there, no doubt about it.

[Kino]

On 9/30/2023 at 6:25 AM, androidlad said:

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/how-fast-is-the-gfx-100-ii-electronic-shutter/

Readout speed for GFX 100 II is the same as the 100, 100S??

The sensor has a slightly different performance in DR, especially because of the addition of ISO 80:

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100-ii/fujifilm-gfx-100-ii-edr-16-bit-precision/

The new PDAF would also necessitate changes. The 4K (line-skipped) mode has a 15ms rolling shutter (vs 30ms on the GFX 100), so the readout speed is definitely faster by a factor of 2x.

It is likely based on the same sensor but with the new additions in autofocus, low ISO performance, and faster readout speed.

[androidlad]

6 hours ago, Kino said:

The sensor has a slightly different performance in DR, especially because of the addition of ISO 80:

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100-ii/fujifilm-gfx-100-ii-edr-16-bit-precision/

The new PDAF would also necessitate changes. The 4K (line-skipped) mode has a 15ms rolling shutter (vs 30ms on the GFX 100), so the readout speed is definitely faster by a factor of 2x.

It is likely based on the same sensor but with the new additions in autofocus, low ISO performance, and faster readout speed.

2 x readout speed is achieved by using 12bit readout mode https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100-ii/more-on-gfx-100-ii-electronic-shutter-speeds/

GFX100/S aren't able to do that likely because of the limitation of the processor, not the sensor.

[powerman668]

I bought a Fuji camera last year and think it's great, no problems at all taking pictures on the road, looking forward to their new products.

[Kino]

9 hours ago, androidlad said:

2 x readout speed is achieved by using 12bit readout mode https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100-ii/more-on-gfx-100-ii-electronic-shutter-speeds/

GFX100/S aren't able to do that likely because of the limitation of the processor, not the sensor.

Fuji has confirmed that video mode on the GFX 100 II is 12 bit. Does the original GFX 100 have 14-bit readout in 4K video?

Perhaps they wouldn't be offering a "new and improved sensor" for $2500 less. The new PDAF could be exclusively software based.

There is also the interesting setting described in the manual on page 197:

It seems like this will restore 14-bit readout in video, as the tradeoff is increased rolling shutter, but Fuji will not confirm how this extra DR is achieved. I would be curious to see some tests in this mode.

[androidlad]

2 hours ago, Kino said:

Fuji has confirmed that video mode on the GFX 100 II is 12 bit. Does the original GFX 100 have 14-bit readout in 4K video?

Perhaps they wouldn't be offering a "new and improved sensor" for $2500 less. The new PDAF could be exclusively software based.

There is also the interesting setting described in the manual on page 197:

It seems like this will restore 14-bit readout in video, as the tradeoff is increased rolling shutter, but Fuji will not confirm how this extra DR is achieved. I would be curious to see some tests in this mode.

2 x readout speed in Fujifilms advertising mainly refers to stills performance, the max 8fps CH mode has been confirmed by Jim Kasson that it's 12bit readout then dithered to 14bit.

Original GFX100/S are limited by the processor and I/O.

Flog2 D range priority mode is achieved by using 12bit Low Noise readout mode.

The sensor is not fast enough for 14bit readout in video mode.

[Kino]

54 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Flog2 D range priority mode is achieved by using 12bit Low Noise readout mode.

Dual Conversion Gain (DCG)? Something has to account for the increased rolling shutter.

[Kino]

I just returned the GFX 100 II and GF 45-100mm after owning the camera for a week. It is an amazing photo camera but only half-baked for video. Here are the main problems I found after some testing:

1. 5.8K and 8K modes suffer from significant rolling shutter, especially the 8K. This is a shame as I was looking forward to the 5.8K "cinemascope" (2.35:1) format.

2. Aliasing is present in 5.8K mode, which uses the full width of the sensor, but much less prevalent in all other modes.

3. Noise is a problem at ISO 2000 and above, especially in the cropped formats. The camera is likely ISO invariant above 800, so you are not really changing anything in the gain signal.

4. I didn't notice "chroma smoothing" in my footage on Resolve, but I wasn't really looking for it or shooting skin tones and foliage. I have seen it in other footage posted online from the camera and it really worries me. It has a plastic effect on skin/flesh tones that can be obvious.

Despite these issues, the camera does have some amazing video qualities:

1. The AF and stabilization work very well for a large format sensor. The 45-100 has OIS and is highly recommended for anyone who buys this camera.

2. The dynamic range is amazing on this camera! It is definitely in the realm of RED and Sony cinema cameras. Some reviewers have compared it to the ALEXA, but I wouldn't go that far.

3. The ergonomics and design of the camera are lovely. It is a beautiful camera in terms of design. It is also tactile and enjoyable to shoot with. The EVF is likely one of the best in the business.

4. I didn't have time to test the anamorphic modes, even though I had all the kit for it. Test footage from others shows that it is one of the best features of the camera. It is certainly a rare feature in this hybrid segment. Only Panasonic offers anything like it.

I was very sad to return it, and I really wanted it to be that "dream camera," but I need a camera that does not compromise on cinema/video specs, especially when it costs $11K for the camera and one lens. There are so many cameras coming out in 2024 that there will be better options.

[mkabi]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:39 PM, Kino said:

There are so many cameras coming out in 2024 that there will be better options.

There are even better options in 2025, you should definitely wait.

[FHDcrew]

2 hours ago, mkabi said:

There are even better options in 2025, you should definitely wait.

Honestly I’m holding out a bit longer, until 2045. Surely there will be better options then. 

[androidlad]

Dynamic range test:

GF mode 4K F-log2 D-range priority on, NR -4, 12.1 stops. D-range priority off, NR -4, 11 stops.

Also every single readout mode is either a combination of lineskipping and oversampling, or 1:1 readout (8k).

[seanzzxx]

So that's about the same as the S5 II which seems ... dissapointing?

[MrSMW]

I struggle to see these digital medium format cameras as anything but pure stills cameras with occasional video use.

Hasselblad didn’t even bother with the video side with the X2D.

Or forgot.

Money no object, still my dream stills camera.

[eatstoomuchjam]

Still photos are amazing, but if that's your only use case, get the 100S.  I also have the original GFX 100 and while there are benefits to the new camera, they're almost certainly not worth the price difference between the 100S used and the 100II brand new.

Since I got my II, I'd been itching to try it on a short film.  The director I've been working with lately signed up for the Four Points 48HFF thing last weekend so I decided to give it a shot.  For fast turnaround, the editor and I agreed that I'd just shoot the 5.8K scope mode / Eterna profile in ProRes 422.  It looked great.  I used autofocus on about 90% of the shots with eye detection.  Especially on the close-ups with the 110/2, it did a lot better job of pulling focus than I would have (there wasn't much time to rehearse moves with the talent).  It was a nice reminder that not everything has to be shot in log or raw.
We also tried using the native C2C integration to send proxies directly to the editor, but the wireless hotspot that I brought with me was WAY too slow.  Setting it up was easy, though, and the bits that did work felt really cool.  Just gotta' try it next time in a place with faster wifi.

The director also brought in an AC without letting me know in advance.  I came set for light/fast and had no need for an AC.  I handed him my EOS R5 that I almost always bring to shoots as a backup and for slow motion (overcrank to 120p comes in useful sometimes).  He was promoted from AC to 2nd Unit DP.  I apologized to the editor that aside from my Fuji footage, he'd be getting some 8k raw from the Canon.  He said it wasn't too hard to match 'em up (though if I'd known I'd have brought my older GFX 100 for him to use so that the footage would match better).

Anyway.  As others have mentioned, it's not a perfect camera, but it is extremely usable and it was a real pleasure to use it all weekend.  At almost no point did I feel that the camera was getting in my way.  It's probably not going to be my "a" camera on projects that can be planned better in advance, but I'll definitely use it again for quick turnaround stuff.