iPhone 15 Camera Update - Released

[kye]

3 hours ago, stephen said:

Maybe log footage was not well graded.

There is no good way to judge colour online - lets review all the possibilities:

• log images are shown
  this is the purest experience of the camera, but you can't judge anything with this
   
• log images + manufacturers LUT is shown
  this is the best way to judge images, but its random chance how good this will look and doesn't really show the potential of the footage
   
• graded images are shown, but they look crap
  this tells you nothing as you can't tell if the camera is bad, the LUT is bad, the colourist is bad, or all of them
   
• graded images are shown, and they look good
  this tells you what is possible but not what is possible for you.  great images could be because the camera is great and colourist is ok, camera is good but colourist is very good, camera is mediocre but colourist is world class

BTW, if camera forums and camera YT had the same level of knowledge about cameras as they do about colour grading then every video would be trying to work out the exposure triangle and failing.  Even rudimentary colour grading and colour science knowledge online is rare outside professional colourist circles - I know more about these things that most and I am at the very very very shallow end of the pool so if I know more than you do then you're basically no-where...

[SRV1981]

35 minutes ago, kye said:

There is no good way to judge colour online - lets review all the possibilities:

• log images are shown
  this is the purest experience of the camera, but you can't judge anything with this
   
• log images + manufacturers LUT is shown
  this is the best way to judge images, but its random chance how good this will look and doesn't really show the potential of the footage
   
• graded images are shown, but they look crap
  this tells you nothing as you can't tell if the camera is bad, the LUT is bad, the colourist is bad, or all of them
   
• graded images are shown, and they look good
  this tells you what is possible but not what is possible for you.  great images could be because the camera is great and colourist is ok, camera is good but colourist is very good, camera is mediocre but colourist is world class

BTW, if camera forums and camera YT had the same level of knowledge about cameras as they do about colour grading then every video would be trying to work out the exposure triangle and failing.  Even rudimentary colour grading and colour science knowledge online is rare outside professional colourist circles - I know more about these things that most and I am at the very very very shallow end of the pool so if I know more than you do then you're basically no-where...

I’m nowhere is my new name 

[kye]

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

I’m nowhere is my new name 

You and me both!

They say the first step is admitting you have a problem, which we've both done, so that means we're probably ahead of half the pack already 🙂 

 

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, stephen said:

Biggest problem with previous generations of iPhone was the extra processing of the video. It was impossible to switch off
    - tone mapping they use to increase DR
    - sharpening
    - noise reduction at higher ISOs

Even when using third parties applications

Now with Apple log, tone mapping and sharpening can be switched off apparently according to some initial tests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSqgzddHooM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VojSIi4SgMk

Another big problem were flares at night, Apple claims that nano coating of the lenses solves this problem. We'll see
Adding the ability to record to external SSD and even SD card is another useful feature.

I still would prefer probably Android RAW video but IPhone 15 + Blackmagic application + Apple Log shapes to be a great  pocket camera that is always with you.

 

Well, I actually have to take it as a game changer or am I only being ecstatic over here, hey folks?

Take a look on this second 249... let's also be smartphone camera fellows this time to match the same iPhone 15 Pro Max model too, hey @kye ? ;- )

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, stephen said:

Now with Apple log, tone mapping and sharpening can be switched off apparently according to some initial tests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSqgzddHooM

(...)

Hey @Dave Maze it would be great to see that made a test happen from your early adopter's unit, man!

[Emanuel]

One thing is already possible to know @kye iPhone 15 Pro Max will be the best cam seller of the next 12 months, I bet...

[kye]

56 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

One thing is already possible to know @kye iPhone 15 Pro Max will be the best cam seller of the next 12 months, I bet...

Yes, but it's been the most popular camera for quite some years!

Just look back at the Flickr camera stats from previous years...  

[SRV1981]

Can you guys see iPhone log and raw replacing a dedicated mirrorless for personal projects and use?

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

Can you guys see iPhone log and raw replacing a dedicated mirrorless for personal projects and use?

Yeah definitely can and maybe some pro project too.

Just 4k prores is 6GB per min, that like 360GB for 1hr, good thing it can record to SSD which is hell cheaper than fast sd card.

[stephen]

@SRV1981 - I said PROBABLY I would still prefer Android RAW 🙂 Until somebody shares some Apple Log footage that can grade myself or even better, test iPhone 15 with Apple log myself, will hold any judgement. I am skeptical about those comparisons with Sony S Log and FF cameras. We've seen plenty of those over the years with similar claims. I suspect their main purpose is to generate more youtube views. 🙂 Smartphones had never been so good for video, yet nobody throws away their FF, Super35 or m43 cameras and lenses. 🙂

For myself smartphone video will not replace my FF camera and lenses it will just complement them for personal projects and family video.

Workflow Android RAW vs iPhone 14 Pro
Can only compare with older iPhone model as this is the one I had experience with.
Yes Android RAW workflow is more time consuming and space consuming at the beginning
You have two extra steps before starting editing:
    - unpack DNG files from the file container that comes from MotionCam
    - run exiftool to label them in a specific way so Resolve recognize them as DGN files from a Blackmagic camera

However it compensates with easy color correction and grading.

With iPhone 14 Pro initial steps are easy and fast, just drag your footage in Resolve. Color correction is time consuming and no so easy, often with extra steps like applying film look with Dehancer in an attempt to hide sharpening and tone mapping.

I can do something else while DNGs are unpacked and labeled, those operations can run on the background and do not requite my attention. IPhone grading on the other hand does require all of my attention and skills.
I prefer the Android RAW workflow as am able to get the picture quality I like faster and easier.

Again this may change with iPhone 15 and Apple Log but need to test it first.

One big advantage of iPhone is that it has excellent stabilization combining Optical IS with software one. Raw video on Android often can't use Optical IS or results are not good. At least for some smartphone models. It begs for a gimbal. In general shooting with iPhone is easier and better experience. For me the whole idea to shoot on a smartphone is about having a good camera with you all the time and shoot quality video if you suddenly get an inspiration. You just  don't think about it, don't have to take a bag, choose lenses, etc. It is always with you.

For the moment Android RAW video is my personal preference but it doesn't have to be yours. 🙂

 

[gt3rs]

2 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Can you guys see iPhone log and raw replacing a dedicated mirrorless for personal projects and use?

No way as I truly hate taking videos and picture with my iPhone, but is a great tool for the times that I cannot or is too impractical to take a larger mirrorless camera. 

I'm still not sold on the fake DoF although now you can do it after the fact so is less risky.
No aperture, hard to control SS, limited low light capability, max 120mm tele... and for me I just hate all the touch UI, no dials, no evf, etc... last but not least no removable storage.... so you need to resort on using external SSD or external CFExpress+Reader that defeated a bit the whole phone idea...

Do I use it now yes (13 pro max), will I move to the 15 pro max, probably, would it replace mirrorless camera even for private stuff?  Not for me but I'm the one going around in NY for pleasure with a R5+28-70 so everyone is different.

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

No way as I truly hate taking videos and picture with my iPhone, but is a great tool for the times that I cannot or is too impractical to take a larger mirrorless camera. 

I'm still not sold on the fake DoF although now you can do it after the fact so is less risky.
No aperture, hard to control SS, limited low light capability, max 120mm tele... and for me I just hate all the touch UI, no dials, no evf, etc... last but not least no removable storage.... so you need to resort on using external SSD or external CFExpress+Reader that defeated a bit the whole phone idea...

Do I use it now yes (13 pro max), will I move to the 15 pro max, probably, would it replace mirrorless camera even for private stuff?  Not for me but I'm the one going around in NY for pleasure with a R5+28-70 so everyone is different.

Is the difference quality or the preference of using a dedicated body? 

[gt3rs]

5 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Is the difference quality or the preference of using a dedicated body? 

For me is both, did you notice that most A/B test are in good light, minimal camera movements, static subject, using the main camera and not the wider and tele as they have less quality.

Just look at this when moving and using the wide camera a Gopro is much better than the iPhone 15 and a Gopro is so far away in quality than a mirrorless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEfFk5GR5y0

Somebody with great skills can make very good video out of in iPhone but imo there still no magic to make a super tiny sensor and lens look like a FF camera, the gap is narrowing but is still there.

[SRV1981]

3 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

For me is both, did you notice that most A/B test are in good light, minimal camera movements, static subject, using the main camera and not the wider and tele as they have less quality.

Just look at this when moving and using the wide camera a Gopro is much better than the iPhone 15 and a Gopro is so far away in quality than a mirrorless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEfFk5GR5y0

Somebody with great skills can make very good video out of in iPhone but imo there still no magic to make a super tiny sensor and lens look like a FF camera, the gap is narrowing but is still there.

Fair just curious if it’s worth it now with ProRes log over spending or using a dedicated camera when traveling etc. seems convenient and if not ABing could be wonderful to capture memories and presenting a mood 

[Django]

Also a no for me. Micro pancake lenses on a 1 inch sensor simply can't rival with S35/FF + nice glass. 

The DoF on an iPhone makes it look like everything was shot at f11. Don't even get me started on "cinematic mode".

Then you have the handling/ergonomics. Dials, buttons, aperture rings etc are essential to me.

I don't even know how you'd go about putting things like ND's on an iPhone or quality audio.

Now for social media or vertical B-roll sure it sounds nice. 

My biggest gripe I guess is that you have to buy an iPhone 15 Pro to have log. You know they could give you log in other models including older models. If anything pros would prefer to disable all the image processing. 

 

[kye]

14 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Can you guys see iPhone log and raw replacing a dedicated mirrorless for personal projects and use?

I am perhaps the closest here to saying yes to this comment, being that I value size, simplicity, speed of working, stabilisation, and am actively opposed to creatively-inappropriate shallow DoF, etc.

I do, and will continue to, use my phone as my second camera.  I use it when I don't have a dedicated camera with me, I use it for a wide-angle (to complement the normal-tele lens on my proper camera), and I use it to shoot the in-between shots like getting in and out of vehicles and while travelling between locations.

However, it is along way from becoming my only camera, because:

They're crap in low-light, especially the wide-angle camera
I tested my iPhone 12 Mini vs my GX85 and GH5 and I found that the normal iPhone camera had similar noise performance to the MFT cameras when they were at F2.8, and the wide camera was equivalent to F8!

It's always your phone and your camera
You always want to use the latest phone as your camera because they're getting better and better, but you always want to use the latest phone as a phone because the battery life etc is newer and better and they're faster.  Therefore, you are always in danger of getting messages and pop-ups etc on your camera while shooting, or if you put it into aeroplane mode then you might miss important notifications.  They're too expensive to buy two of.

They're a pain to shoot with
No handle, no wrist strap, etc, and if you rig it up then it's a pain to use it as a phone, and a pain to put in your pocket.  Also, if you want to have any external accessories like lenses or NDs, they always require a case, but the cases are completely shit at being a protective case, so you're perpetually changing cases, which screws them up.  Even if you don't use lenses etc you're going to want to use an SSD with it now because Prores.

They lack flexibility of lenses
Even a Panasonic GM5 that shoots low-bitrate 1080p will look better fitted with an F1.2 (or F0.95) lens than a phone for low-light situations.  The GM5 will also look better fitted with a 100mm (or 200mm, or 400mm!) lens than a phone using heavy digital cropping on its longest lens.  The GM5 will look nicer when fitted with a fast aperture lens than the Cinematic Mode which has about the same subtlety in blurring the image as a toddler does when smearing food on themselves at dinner time.

[SRV1981]

23 minutes ago, kye said:

I am perhaps the closest here to saying yes to this comment, being that I value size, simplicity, speed of working, stabilisation, and am actively opposed to creatively-inappropriate shallow DoF, etc.

I do, and will continue to, use my phone as my second camera.  I use it when I don't have a dedicated camera with me, I use it for a wide-angle (to complement the normal-tele lens on my proper camera), and I use it to shoot the in-between shots like getting in and out of vehicles and while travelling between locations.

However, it is along way from becoming my only camera, because:

They're crap in low-light, especially the wide-angle camera
I tested my iPhone 12 Mini vs my GX85 and GH5 and I found that the normal iPhone camera had similar noise performance to the MFT cameras when they were at F2.8, and the wide camera was equivalent to F8!

It's always your phone and your camera
You always want to use the latest phone as your camera because they're getting better and better, but you always want to use the latest phone as a phone because the battery life etc is newer and better and they're faster.  Therefore, you are always in danger of getting messages and pop-ups etc on your camera while shooting, or if you put it into aeroplane mode then you might miss important notifications.  They're too expensive to buy two of.

They're a pain to shoot with
No handle, no wrist strap, etc, and if you rig it up then it's a pain to use it as a phone, and a pain to put in your pocket.  Also, if you want to have any external accessories like lenses or NDs, they always require a case, but the cases are completely shit at being a protective case, so you're perpetually changing cases, which screws them up.  Even if you don't use lenses etc you're going to want to use an SSD with it now because Prores.

They lack flexibility of lenses
Even a Panasonic GM5 that shoots low-bitrate 1080p will look better fitted with an F1.2 (or F0.95) lens than a phone for low-light situations.  The GM5 will also look better fitted with a 100mm (or 200mm, or 400mm!) lens than a phone using heavy digital cropping on its longest lens.  The GM5 will look nicer when fitted with a fast aperture lens than the Cinematic Mode which has about the same subtlety in blurring the image as a toddler does when smearing food on themselves at dinner time.

Are you shooting for paid work or enthusiast ?

[kye]

31 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Are you shooting for paid work or enthusiast ?

Enthusiast.

[SRV1981]

1 minute ago, kye said:

Enthusiast.

Samesies. I may go for the gusto and adopt an iPhone 15 system and try it out and see how it goes instead of dropping $ for a mirrorless. Could be interesting 

[Emanuel]

2 minutes ago, kye said:

Enthusiast.

OK

but...

@kyebeats the most part of professionals I've met... Fact.

:- )