Blackmagic Update - 14th September 2023 19:00 CET

[kye]

6 minutes ago, seanzzxx said:

Anyone looked at the footage gallery on Blackmagic their website? Looks like a pretty big step up from the Pocket 6K to me. Super clean.

Are you referring to the 3 RAW clips they provide?

Did you compare the footage to P6K footage also from BM?

Did you also compare to the UMP12K?

I ask because so much of what we see online now is just differences in the skill level of the colourist rather than the camera.  When I can look at test clips online and know how I would grade it to make it better, you know you're in trouble, but that's all too common unfortunately!

[seanzzxx]

No I’m talking about the raw footage that you can download here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/nl/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/gallery

[QuickHitRecord]

8 hours ago, seanzzxx said:

No I’m talking about the raw footage that you can download here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/nl/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/gallery

This is a great resource. Thanks for sharing. However, my version of Resolve 18.5 Studio cannot see the BRAW files. I click on the folder in Media Storage, but it appears empty in the browser. Has anyone else been able to get it to work? Or are these files just too new for the latest version of Resolve?

[Happy Daze]

12 minutes ago, QuickHitRecord said:

This is a great resource. Thanks for sharing. However, my version of Resolve 18.5 Studio cannot see the BRAW files. I click on the folder in Media Storage, but it appears empty in the browser. Has anyone else been able to get it to work? Or are these files just too new for the latest version of Resolve?

Try the newer version DR Studio 18.6

[QuickHitRecord]

Thanks. That worked. Funny how not all BRAW files are measured equal.

[TomTheDP]

Perfect camera for vintage glass. You get the full 35mm field of view plus L mount. I am guessing it has the same dynamic range and capabilities as the S1H, which is fantastic, nearing RED Raptor quality. Only downside is the sucky rolling shutter.

[KnightsFan]

While neither are tools I would likely use personally, I had to stop by to say Blackmagic knocked it out of the park with their FF camera and app.

I'm extremely happy to see more L mount cameras in general. Competition is great, but standardization of interchangeable parts is also preferable. I love to see multiple companies adhering to a standard connection between any interlocking pieces while each innovating their core functionality.

I think Blackmagic's strength (and their target audience for this form factor) is the simplicity. Back when I worked on a lot of student films, Blackmagic cameras were always the #1 choice because of their ease of use. A lot of those students were more artistic than technical. Having a big, built in screen, simple UI, and an end-to-end workflow with Da Vinci Resolve was really great for them.

The iPhone app is a similar advantage. I wouldn't use an iPhone for any serious project personally, but lots of people already do. And all of those people now have a huge reason to use Resolve, and many will buy the full version. Having an end-to-end workflow for phones is really innovative, particularly with the direct-to-cloud part.

I'm always happy to see smaller companies doing something fresh and original, and really wish Blackmagic the best! I'd love a that box-style camera though... but I guess that's what Z Cam is for

[IronFilm]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:13 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Yeah, even at 1/350th scale you'd need a fairly big coat to fit the Admiral Graf Spee in your pocket.

Is that the Admiral Graf Spee in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? 

[Django]

I can't seem to download the app, says not available in my region which is weird as I'm in the EU, anyone else?

As for the new camera, some mixed feelings. While I embrace the jump to FF and L-mount, I don't get why they removed the ND's and ProRes. Are they going to come up with a "Pro" model next year with those specs like on the Pocket 6K? 

Also the sensor seems a little dated, slow read outs, no bumps in resolution, no DGO. You'd almost think this is a Lumix Sx in a BMD body. Not that its a bad thing, just a bit underwhelming imo. I guess the price is pretty decent for a FF cine cam.

[MrSMW]

I just had a good look at the specs compared with the 6k Pro and I was interested in the new boy it being full frame, but more relevant to me, L Mount…but actually, the 6k Pro would suit me better.

No IBIS in either doesn’t really work for me but there are some decent OIS EF Mount lenses so there’s that, but it’s a camera I would probably use on a monopod.

The biggest issue for me is it lost it’s 6k 50p capability and as someone looking to be able to shoot minimum 6k 50p for slow motion (up to 50%) when required and also be able to pull stills (so shooting at a minimum of 1/100th ideally) the new camera doesn’t cut it.

It does what, 36p but with 2 higher options but the 6k 50p one being 2.4:1 which is very ‘cinematic’ and all, but very restricted for pulling stills. Unless you want very ‘cinematic’ stills!

The search continues… Canon R3 offers me 6k 50p on raw and the Nikon brothers Z8/9, 8k 50p also raw…and raw is not necessarily a deal breaker (just the file sizes are fooking massive!) so still on that Lumix fence waiting on whatever the next S1R/H might be.

Shooting internally. I am well aware there are external options but rigging is not my thing.

[zerocool22]

Yeah would love to see a side by side with the s5ii. 

(Especially braw vs braw)

[kye]

12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Is that the Admiral Graf Spee in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? 

Can't it be both?

[kye]

12 hours ago, Django said:

As for the new camera, some mixed feelings. While I embrace the jump to FF and L-mount, I don't get why they removed the ND's and ProRes. Are they going to come up with a "Pro" model next year with those specs like on the Pocket 6K?

I wasn't sure if there was room for an ND mechanism in the L-mount, but a bit of googling revealed that lots of Sony E-mount cameras have it, and the E-mount has a smaller flange distance than the E-mount, so no excuses there.

Maybe they will release a Pro model with upgraded features.  I think the lack of Prores might be an ecosystem thing, to 'encourage' you to use Resolve.  BM don't support Prores RAW in Resolve, so there's an ecosystem war going on.

[seanzzxx]

I think Blackmagic is really struggling with their price point at the moment. L mount, a full frame sensor, these all probably add significant costs. Adding an electronic ND or redesigning the body to fit mechanical nds like the c70 did or even adding ProRes (something which Panasonic charges 200 euros for with the S5 II upgrade license) probably would have added too much cost or development time in their eyes. 

[kye]

8 minutes ago, seanzzxx said:

I think Blackmagic is really struggling with their price point at the moment. L mount, a full frame sensor, these all probably add significant costs. Adding an electronic ND or redesigning the body to fit mechanical nds like the c70 did or even adding ProRes (something which Panasonic charges 200 euros for with the S5 II upgrade license) probably would have added too much cost or development time in their eyes. 

You might be right, and the economics are definitely a huge factor regardless of this example.

The other thing that plays a massive role is the perception of a camera.  We all like to think we're rational beings, but this is pretty far from the truth unfortunately.  Take the G9ii thread for example, lots of people criticising the camera because it wasn't small and cheap - had Panasonic released an updated GX camera and a couple of new lenses a month prior the conversation about the G9 would have been very different and the camera might have been evaluated on its merits, not on the presence or lack of other products which might or might not be related.

For BM, it might be hugely better to release the BMCC6K (Full frame! L-mount! wow!) and then a BMCC6KPro (still FF! still L-mount! a bit more for NDs and Prores, but um, ok...  that's reasonable I guess), rather than the other way around, where the first one get criticised for costing a lot, then the non-pro model gets criticised for lacking features.

[Django]

12 hours ago, kye said:

I wasn't sure if there was room for an ND mechanism in the L-mount, but a bit of googling revealed that lots of Sony E-mount cameras have it, and the E-mount has a smaller flange distance than the E-mount, so no excuses there.

Maybe they will release a Pro model with upgraded features.  I think the lack of Prores might be an ecosystem thing, to 'encourage' you to use Resolve.  BM don't support Prores RAW in Resolve, so there's an ecosystem war going on.

I understand why no ProRes RAW but no ProRes doesn't make sense to me. They include ProRes in all their other cameras. 

Sounds to me like good old cripple hammer not to cannibalise Pocket 6K Pro sales. 

Its a pretty big miss for this new camera as you don't always wanna shoot in RAW. For both storage space and workflow reasons. They added h264 proxies for the first time but HD only I think. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

I'd say it was a ploy to get people to buy a VideoAssist if they have a requirement to record ProRes if it wasn't for the fact that the HDMI output is capped at 1080p.

Even so, if you have to to the external route to even get 1080p ProRes on the BM then the S5iix with the Ninja V gives you 6K ProRes RAW and 5.8K ProRes to SSD if you don't want to use the monitor.

You are then also getting the two bonuses of the PDAF and IBIS.

And considering the form factor of the 6K series is nothing to write home about, the S5iiX doesn't come off worse in that department either plus you don't have to pay extra for the EVF 🙂 

There are a ton of people who couldn't care less about ProRes, AF, IBIS etc though and don't care that it wasn't the massive leap forward that was anticipated who will be absolutely thrilled by this camera.

And rightly so.

Objectively versus an S5iix though, I'm not sure I would personally bite.

 

[Django]

I can't imagine them getting many video assist sales from their 1080p capped HDMI cams. Besides the main selling point of the 6K cams is having that large 5" display built-in. I think this is more about segmenting current products and opening a path for a future Pro model.

As for the comparison with the S5iix I'd go further since it seems they are using the same (if not very similar) sensor. The read out times seem identical. Just different bodies & specs. Different customer base too obviously.

[Anaconda_]

I think it's more about licensing ProRes. If the camera uses Braw, it doesn't cost them anything. And I'm pretty sure h264/5 are free to use. 

As Braw is pretty close to ProRes file sizes, I think I'd actually prefer to have Braw and h265 over ProRes. I often shoot in remote locations, and need to send files back to the big city. The small filesizes of h265 would be really great to have in camera.

So I'm quite excited about Braw and a proxy simultaneously... However, Blackmagic seem to enjoy the Goldilocks effect, so I'll wait for the one that's juuuuust right in about 2 years time. 

[Django]

Oh I hear you and if the camera allowed Braw & 10-bit h265 4K/6K that would be great for fast turnaround projects and efficient storage .. but its Braw & 8-bit h264 1080p. So no middle codec. Reminds me of my C200 that had Canon RAW & 8-bit 4K. Not very flexible and this isn't even 4K proxy. Little weird in 2023.