Blackmagic Update - 14th September 2023 19:00 CET

[Emanuel]

It's huge this one as app, really, my fav filmmaking user interface by the way...

- EAG :- )

[Emanuel]

Just sold a new unit of the new iPhone ; )

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Hang on!! 
 

just noticed that the new P6KFF only shoots BRAW and low res H264 proxies???? no ProRes at all or anything even remotely comparable. 
 

massive fail!!

Ouch.

I had just presumed that like the P6K/PK6PRO/P6KG2, and the P6K derived Ursa Broadcast G2, ProRes would top out at 4K and you had to use BRAW above that.

Not including it all is a bit of a surprise, so it is more like the Studio Camera 6K Pro in that respect than it is the Pocket Camera 6K Pro then.

Or the Ursa Mini Pro 12K.

I can’t remember whether they ever said any sort of ProRes would come to the 12K even on the same “Up to 4K only” basis but even if they didn’t they have subsequently ignored the demand for it as an update, assuming it is possible.

Which would not bode well for building up any hopes that it could come to this new 6K as a future update.

 

[kye]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You forgot the P6K Pro version...

Do people say "P6K" when they mean the Pro version?  I haven't seen it, but maybe it's something I've missed.

But yes, confusion!

 

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The control does come through the SDI port as well so they could make a Bluetooth adapter into that.

Yes, that would be quite a good implementation.  A bit messier in the rig, but still not ridiculous.

I saw a discussion video online that was saying their app was iPhone only and didn't control their other cameras, but it does raise the potential for their app to be expanded to also be able to connect and remotely monitor and control other cameras, which would be pretty good.

I'd go so far as to say that the app might have even started as a remote control app where they decided to allow it to use the iPhone camera, which then got rolled out in the first version.

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It’s not a bad sort of kind of box version of the P4K but where this camera really scores is with the ATEM where you can control and live switch them but then use their BRAW recordings to post produce a higher quality tuned version in 4K as the ATEM automatically produces a Resolve project with the multi cam timeline that you then just drop the files from the camera into.

You can now have a live stream setup with hardware switching of four channels of fully controllable cameras with ISO recording in 4K BRAW for under £4K.

It’s pretty amazing really.

I don't have a deep understanding of their live switching options, but what I do know about it is very impressive and if I was a live streamer / podcaster then it would be my first call to put together a setup.

The BM cameras aren't a good fit for what I do because they're not really designed for people like me, but it does seem that they really nail it for their target customers.

4 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Say goodbye to filmic pro and their money grabbing subscription

Absolutely!  I had Filmic Pro installed on my phone from ages ago and recently updated it and opened it up and saw it wanted to charge me for just using it, even though I had previously bought it outright.

Let's just say it got removed from my phone pretty darn quickly after that discovery!

"Don't let the door smack you in the ass on your way out!"

26 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Ouch.

I had just presumed that like the P6K/PK6PRO/P6KG2, and the P6K derived Ursa Broadcast G2, ProRes would top out at 4K and you had to use BRAW above that.

Not including it all is a bit of a surprise, so it is more like the Studio Camera 6K Pro in that respect than it is the Pocket Camera 6K Pro then.

Or the Ursa Mini Pro 12K.

I can’t remember whether they ever said any sort of ProRes would come to the 12K even on the same “Up to 4K only” basis but even if they didn’t they have subsequently ignored the demand for it as an update, assuming it is possible.

Which would not bode well for building up any hopes that it could come to this new 6K as a future update.

Oh wow, that's a pretty aggressive move in the ecosystem wars!  BM is also notable for not supporting Prores RAW in Resolve too, essentially forcing Resolve folks to either convert their files or switch to BRAW.

I'd be curious to see what the equivalent bitrate BRAW file was like compared to Prores - I suspect it might be similar quality.  If I ended up with a more modern camera I'd be trying this as a first step.  

BRAW provides a "custom non‑linear 12‑bit space designed to provide the maximum amount of color data and dynamic range" which is something only Prores 4444 etc can provide, so shooting BRAW gives the extra bit depth that Prores typically doesn't on these cameras.

Prores HQ in UHD is ~700Mbps, and BRAW UHD 5:1 is about ~670Mbps.  So BRAW goes to a higher bitrate than most Prores implementations (in the BRAW 3:1 mode), and also goes lower (Prores Proxy UHD is ~150Mbps and Prores LT is 328Mbps and BRAW 12:1 is about 280Mbps, so in the middle of those two).
 

[stephen]

Blackmagic application for iPhone is a good one. However Filmic Pro already has an affordable alternative. CinemaP3 application has all the functionality and is not that expensive at 16 or 17 $/E if remember well. Latest generation Android phones like Xiaomi 13 Ultra + Motioncam give 4K RAW video 24/25/30/60p and really good image quality that IPhone cannot compete with. Those smartphones + Motioncam are the TRUE pocket cinema cameras of 2023. They really do fit in a pocket 🙂

[JulioD]

3 hours ago, kye said:

Prores HQ in UHD is ~700Mbps, and BRAW UHD 5:1 is about ~670Mbps.  So BRAW goes to a higher bitrate than most Prores implementations (in the BRAW 3:1 mode), and also goes lower (Prores Proxy UHD is ~150Mbps and Prores LT is 328Mbps and BRAW 12:1 is about 280Mbps, so in the middle of those two).
 

Actually in the Q5 mode it goes even to higher compression rates.  And it's 12Bit.  ProRes is only 10 bit remember unless it's 4444.

A lot or peeps don't seem to realize pixel for pixel, BRAW is usually the same size or smaller than ProRes at a higher bit depth.  Now that's it's supported on everything except FCP, I don't miss prores.  I love ProRes, but I love BRAW more.

 

[JulioD]

27 minutes ago, stephen said:

Blackmagic application for iPhone is a good one. However Filmic Pro already has an affordable alternative. CinemaP3 application has all the functionality and is not that expensive at 16 or 17 $/E if remember well. Latest generation Android phones like Xiaomi 13 Ultra + Motioncam give 4K RAW video 24/25/30/60p and really good image quality that IPhone cannot compete with. Those smartphones + Motioncam are the TRUE pocket cinema cameras of 2023. They really do fit in a pocket 🙂

But it doesn't stream your files straight into a DaVinci cloud project nor do they record 4444 ProRes?

[kye]

2 hours ago, stephen said:

Blackmagic application for iPhone is a good one. However Filmic Pro already has an affordable alternative. CinemaP3 application has all the functionality and is not that expensive at 16 or 17 $/E if remember well. Latest generation Android phones like Xiaomi 13 Ultra + Motioncam give 4K RAW video 24/25/30/60p and really good image quality that IPhone cannot compete with. Those smartphones + Motioncam are the TRUE pocket cinema cameras of 2023. They really do fit in a pocket 🙂

Yes, the video from the iPhone is no match for the RAW android video.

I suspect the BM camera app will be subject to all the same image processing that the normal app is subject to, just with adjustable compression ratios.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen any examples of third-party apps having less processing than the default app.

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, kye said:

Do people say "P6K" when they mean the Pro version?  I haven't seen it, but maybe it's something I've missed.

But yes, confusion!

I try to always say explicitly "P6K Pro" if I mean that. 

But yes, people might casually say "Pocket 6K" when meaning their P6K Pro. 

Or heck, they might even say their "Blackmagic Pocket Camera" and you're left confused if they mean the original Pocket 1080 camera? (some people don't even realize that exists!!) Or the P4K MFT?? Or one of the 6K versions? Who knows!

[FHDcrew]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Yes, the video from the iPhone is no match for the RAW android video.

I suspect the BM camera app will be subject to all the same image processing that the normal app is subject to, just with adjustable compression ratios.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen any examples of third-party apps having less processing than the default app.

Yeah that is the biggest hurdle with iPhone video.  No matter what app you cannot undue the horrendous oversharpening.  And the "log" profiles feel very fake with no real benefit.  I've been tempted to switch to Android for both the increased OS customization as well as the DNG RAW video which trumps anything the iPhone does.

[mercer]

Interesting announcement. I'm glad BM removed the "Pocket" moniker. I'd like to believe they're working on the true successor to the only "Pocket" camera they've made... but I doubt it. As @BTM_Pix has already said... Sigma did that for them.

I guess I'll be the resident contrarian and say that I don't think the Leica L mount was a smart move. They probably won't be able to fit internal NDs when they use this mount and will concoct some type of adapter with built in VND instead. I had the Fotodiox version for my FP and it was horrible. It created a gross, smudgy veil across the frame with even the slightest of ND. At first I thought it was due to me using a wide angle lens, but nope, it was there with a 50mm as well. Shame too because the version I had for M43, years ago, worked great.

Obviously, I understand that the L Mount opens up a lot more lens options. If anyone has read my posts over the past 8 years, you know I have a lens addiction, so mirrorless mounts are great so I can dust off my Minolta MD, Canon FD, and with some cameras, I can even use my c-mount lenses.

That said, even with EF, there are still a lot of lenses available, but more importantly, to me, when adapting lenses, the EF mount adds the flange distance needed on the body and not on the adapter...

And with that said, I understand that BM is dealing with a tweener market... part of their customer base wants to adapt any lens under the sun... the Leica L mount gives them that... and another portion want to use new lenses... the EF mount doesn't offer that anymore (another reason why I thought Canon made a mistake ditching EF) but the Leica L mount does.

Also the lack of ProRes is just imbecilic.

And with ALL that said... I'm sure it will be a great camera and have a lovely image, and I'm sure there are other Swiss Army features that it offers that will benefit a lot of folks... I'm just not one of them...

Blackmagic... if you're reading this... go back to your roots and give us a tiny S16 sensor, 4K camera with a built in monitor and acceptable battery life... your entire ethos was to bring small, affordable cinema tools to the masses.

For me... I already own 2, full frame, cameras that shoot raw video and at that price point, although respectable, I'd rather pony up an extra thousand and get an R5C for Canon Raw, DPAF and a better Cinema platform... or $500 for an R5 for Canon Raw, DPAF and IBIS. Easy choice.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

give us a tiny S16 sensor,

This new L Mount camera can shoot 2K S16

[kye]

12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I try to always say explicitly "P6K Pro" if I mean that. 

But yes, people might casually say "Pocket 6K" when meaning their P6K Pro. 

Or heck, they might even say their "Blackmagic Pocket Camera" and you're left confused if they mean the original Pocket 1080 camera? (some people don't even realize that exists!!) Or the P4K MFT?? Or one of the 6K versions? Who knows!

Yeah, I've run into people who thought that the P4K was the OG BMPCC.  

I've also started to run into professionals like doctors etc who are waaaay younger than I am.  Soon I'll look around and the world will be being run by toddlers...

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, kye said:

I've also started to run into professionals like doctors etc who are waaaay younger than I am.  Soon I'll look around and the world will be being run by toddlers...

I feel far more affinity with my wedding clients than their parents but then the other day, realised I was born the year before the brides dad 🤪

[BTM_Pix]

16 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But yes, people might casually say "Pocket 6K" when meaning their P6K Pro. 

To differentiate, we can all refer to this new one as the PK6-NP.

Denoting both it’s battery type and that it has No ProRes 

[A_Urquhart]

Apparently the new camera isn’t called ‘pocket’ anymore. Lots of people complained that it didn’t fit in their pockets I guess. Pretty silly really. 
I had a Kessler Pocket dolly many years ago…..it didn’t fit in my pocket either but I never complained about it but then I try not to take things too literally 😜

[BTM_Pix]

Yeah, even at 1/350th scale you'd need a fairly big coat to fit the Admiral Graf Spee in your pocket.

[kye]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yeah, even at 1/350th scale you'd need a fairly big coat to fit the Admiral Graf Spee in your pocket.

The new camera is full-frame, so the crop-factor should be 1.

 

[MrSMW]

That reminds me that this Winter I need to finish my Mosquito fighter-bomber.

Started it with my daughter last Summer before she left home (and country) for uni and haven’t been able to look at it since…but enough time has now probably passed to get glue all over my fingers once again.

[seanzzxx]

Anyone looked at the footage gallery on Blackmagic their website? Looks like a pretty big step up from the Pocket 6K to me. Super clean.