Low light camera that shoots 4:2:2 or better

[tomreyn]

So I have a shoot coming up next month that will require some heavy color correction. The lighting conditions are a type of safelight for circuit printing. I am still waiting on details about what wavelength the light will be but its safe to assume it will be very very VERY yellow and really rather dim. I can assume i will be shooting at 1600 or higher ISO all day. Due to light sensitive materials i do not have much ability to add light and i cannot add anything outside of their safe light spectrum. I have shot in these conditions before a few years back with Canon HV30s and they held up OK but there was no way to get the color balance to look even decent because i was working with HDV footage in a 4:1:0 color space. 

 

I currently shoot with a d600 into a atomos ninja so i can get 1080p 4:2:2 out of that which will give me a bit more room for color correction but the camera isn't great for low light. For the most part i consider the camera as unuseable above about 2500 ISO which will probably be workable in this room but not ideal. 

 

I was wondering if anybody had any experience with something that would shoot a nice wide color space like 4:2:2 or better and has good low light. I am looking at renting something for this shoot like maybe a Black Magic or an A7S or maybe even a c100 if there is the budget. I don't love the idea of shooting raw from the BM cameras. I have played with the BMPCC footage and my editing system can't handle the raw footage, i would need to re-encode it before i start editing and im not in love with the idea of doing a Proxy edit any more. I have Nikon lens' already so i would like something i can easily adapt them to and i already have adapters to go to Canon and m4/3 so the C100 or the black magic cameras are a good choice i think. 

 

I'm open to suggestions for other cameras as well. Just let me know any experiences you guys have had

 

Thanks so much for the help

Tom

[Andrew Reid]

Digital Bolex if you need a wide colour gamut. It is unmatched. CCD sensor so analogue feel to colour, very much like film.

 

However if raw isn't your thing then the A7S in SLOG 2 comes a lot closer than the C100, especially to the Atomos Shogun in 4K. It's just a much larger pathway between sensor and card. More colour data in there. And if you scale to 1080p in your edit (which is trivial to do by the way) you have 4:4:4 luma. GH4 is also an option... will give you 10bit to the Atomos Ninja Star. It's the cheaper option compared to A7S + Shogun for sure.

[Kristoferman]

I was under the impression that the Digital Bolex was pretty awful in low light?

[tomreyn]

My concern with the bolex is that feel. For fiction work I'm sure its great and the footage looks amazing but this is an industrial video. they want something very flat and not stylized. The other problem i have is rental availability. I dont know that i will even be able to rent a Bolex because most local rental shops in LA don't carry it. I believe there is only a small handful. And like Kristoerman said i was also under the impression that the Bolex was not a great low light option. From the tests i have seen it works fairly well and if you don't mind a little grain it looks really killer when you push the ISO but im looking for a very seterile industrial look and feel for this video so I'm not sure thats the right answer. 

 

I should also note that I am delivering at 720 or 1080. No need for 4k delivery but 4k in post would be super for all of the reasons we already know, reframing, sharpness etc. 

[Kristoferman]

You could always got Magic Lantern 5D Raw, but the workflow is a bit cumbersome I've heard.

[tomreyn]

I would rather not go that canon route because i have never messed with ML Raw. I haven't used magic lantern since my t2i. Not that i don't trust the hack i just don't want my shoot to rely on something that i am very unfamiliar with and might lack documentation. 

[Kristoferman]

Try to rent an FS7?  A7S doesn't have the color depth you require, but it's a beast at low light and evidently slog2 can be pushed pretty decently in capable hands (keyword capable)

[tomreyn]

Yeah i think thats the best idea. The only reason i said that i require 4:2:2 is just so i had the color depth to be able to do some heavy color correction. If i can get the color correction i need out of slog or clog or whatever picture profile is out there then hell I can deal with 4:1:0 I just need what I need then I'm fine with that.  Does the slog2 have any ISO limitations like you get with the GH cameras in cidelike-d? 

[Kristoferman]

It has to be at 3200+ ISO for slog2.  As far as I know, that's the only limitation.

[richg101]

a7s and set wb correctly so you dont have to correct as much?  the kelvin scale gets you close, then a bias will do the rest.  the 8bit 4;2;0 issue became null and void when the image you get from the a7s is so solid in low light the lack of depth is made up for.  correct exposure, correct wb and zero noise is better than a murky 10bit 4.2.2 image with loads of noise masking the colour information.    

[tomreyn]

Yeah I agree that I would prefer lower noise. I can get 4:2:2 over HDMI into my recorder as it stands but the tones get muddy at higher isos. I think we are all on the same page with the and being the best choice out there right now. And with a base iso that high I can easily shoot in those conditions

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

If you are not pleased with the D600 lowlight performance you will not be happy with the GH4, BM, Bolex, etc.

Just use an a7s if lowlight is a priority. Fantastic image in lowlight. The colours will be fine and accurate (but I don't like it for skin tones). If you want to preserve the codec don't shoot in S-Log and like rich said get it close to the final look in-camera with the picture profile and WB.

[Vesku]

 The only reason i said that i require 4:2:2 is just so i had the color depth to be able to do some heavy color correction.

 

4:2:0 or 4:2:2 are not color depth. These are luminance/chroma resolution. 8bit / 10bit / 12bit are color depths and more important when color correcting.

 

I tested GH4 4:2:0 4k video vs 4:2:2 JPG photo and there is almost no difference at 100% sensor center crop.

 

http://***URL removed***/forums/post/54879969 

[Danyyyel]

If you already have a Nikon glass and is used with the workflow, why don't you use the D750 with the Ninja. Don't think that because the D600 is not good in low light that it is the same with other Nikon camera. Since the launch of the D5200 two years ago Nikon has been using pixel binning, that is sampling much more pixel from the sensor and down scaling them. Since then no more moire/aliasing and very very good lowlight. The D5200/d5300 where about equal to the 5dmark3 and now the latest D750 beat it. In widely available camera it is only beaten by the C100/C300 and the A7s. Note that the A7s and most Sony camera exibit some strange blowout/colour shift on strong blue light like led stage light, I don't know if it is of any concern to you, but I think it is good to know.

 

You have some example of D750 high Iso here '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

or http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D750/

[tomreyn]

Sorry for my confusion. I have always struggled with the difference between color space and color depth.

And don't get me wrong. the image from the d600 is great and i am sure i will continue to use it for lots of projects over next year. I just struggle when grading it and I find that the skin tones get really muddy if i have to do much grading at all. I shoot using flat or neutral gamma picture profiles and they make for great DR but skin tones tend to get washed out a bit. I know that in the lighting conditions I'm going to be shooting in that will become a problem.  The other problem i struggle with is heavy moire. So if you guys agree that the d750  would cut it for low light (and from that last link it appears that it should) then i might be able to stick with that. 

 

Thanks for all of the responses guys and girls.