Mobile Phone As Camera Wisdom/Advice

[fuzzynormal]

Anyone know what’s best?  

I’m occasionally shooting supplementary doc footage with a iPhone12.

It’s okay

However, I’m wondering what the superior options on the market are right now. 
 

I’m platform agnostic.  

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

However, I’m wondering what the superior options on the market are right now. 

Are you looking for something roughly cellphone sized ish? And not a mirrorless camera? (not even a very small one like a Panasonic GX850?)

Probably the latest Sony RX100 is the best idea for you? 

Or if even that is too big for you, then the Sony RX0mk2????

[fuzzynormal]

27 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Are you looking for something roughly cellphone sized ish? And not a mirrorless camera? (not even a very small one like a Panasonic GX850?)

Probably the latest Sony RX100 is the best idea for you? 

Or if even that is too big for you, then the Sony RX0mk2????

Nah, definitely looking for a phone. 

[Emanuel]

You essentially have two separate routes:

- MotionCam based on Android for raw aquisition;

or

- iPhone 15 Pro Max;

not much else.

[Emanuel]

Not much else to invent around, that's it : ) My choice on mobile side though would include the upcoming Osmo Pocket 3 anyway, available just in a few days... ;- )

[fuzzynormal]

Anyone using the Samsung S23 Ultra?

[Andrew Reid]

If you want to go full on cinema with a phone, get Motion Cam for 4K and even 6K RAW recording on certain Android phones. The best options for that are quite cheap. Oneplus 8 Pro for example

If you want the convenience of H.265 get a Xiaomi Mi 11 Ultra and install Mcpro24, hike up the bitrate and shoot in 6K mode.

Avoid the stock camera apps on Android, compressed, oversharpened, and 8K that isn't anywhere near 8K.

iPhone shoots good video using Blackmagic's app. Stock app is vastly superior to the Android stock camera apps for video. ProRes for a start!

Avoid Filmic Pro. It's a rip off and Mcpro24 is a lot better.

Finally, look carefully at the older models before jumping in with latest and greatest (S23 Ultra for example, is a waste of money). The Xiaomi 12S Ultra has a 1" sensor and definitely outperforms Samsung in every way.

The iPhone 15 Pro Max is tempting for Apple LOG though.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Finally, look carefully at the older models before jumping in with latest and greatest (S23 Ultra for example, is a waste of money). The Xiaomi 12S Ultra has a 1" sensor and definitely outperforms Samsung in every way.

I got excited about this Xiaomi 12S for half a second! It's quite affordable. 

But then I realized the Xiaomi 12S Ultra is a different model, whoops. 

It's price.... ouch. Ah well, if I wait long enough it will become as "affordable" as the Panasonic Lumix DMC-CM1 is today. (welll... it's price seems to be holding up surprisingly well on eBay for how super old it is!) 

[fuzzynormal]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

look carefully at the older models before jumping in with latest and greatest (S23 Ultra for example, is a waste of money). The Xiaomi 12S Ultra has a 1" sensor and definitely outperforms Samsung in every way.

Appreciate the insight.  My tendency is to hang back behind the tech curve so it's good to hear advice supporting that.

[PannySVHS]

I will checkout the LG V60 for raw video some time soon, with the motioncam app for raw video and for 10bit LOG video with the Mcpro24fps app. You can buy them used in good condition for 200 - 250 Euro.

The Mcpro24 app is even giving me 10 bit log an a 100euro LG V40. The LG V40 was also one of the first phones running motioncam app for raw video! Xiaomi Mi A3 sounds interesting too.

What are your findings on the Oneplus 8 Pro? @Andrew Reid

[Andrew Reid]

Cheaper alternative to 12S Ultra is the Xiaomi Mi 10 which can be had for about 200-300 euros used.

This produces 6K RAW reliably at 24fps in Cinema DNG from a 1/1.33" sensor, same size as a top-end Galaxy and much larger than the older phones with their tiny 1/2.5" chips.

Oneplus 8 Pro is the MotionCam's developers favoured device. It's reliable, fast, great sensor, good selection of lenses and does 4K/60p in RAW.

McPro24fps is very handy for 10bit when you don't want the massive file sizes of RAW.

By the way MotionCam can transcode to ProRes on Android phones in-app, or you can do it in post with their free app too.

It's the Magic Lantern of phones basically.

[billdoubleu]

@fuzzynormal, if you plan on using this as your actual personal device, be sure to research what will work with your carrier. I believe you are in the US, and many of these Chinese phones, if you can even find them, won't work with certain networks. This is especially true of Verizon.

[fuzzynormal]

45 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

many of these Chinese phones, if you can even find them, won't work with certain networks.

Thanks for the heads up.  Luckily, I'm not locked into any specific carrier so I can bounce to whatever is required.

[PannySVHS]

 

20 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Cheaper alternative to 12S Ultra is the Xiaomi Mi 10 which can be had for about 200-300 euros used.

This produces 6K RAW reliably at 24fps in Cinema DNG from a 1/1.33" sensor, same size as a top-end Galaxy and much larger than the older phones with their tiny 1/2.5" chips.

Awesome! Thanks, Andrew. It is not far off from the size of the main Iphone 15 sensor, which is around 1/ 1.25", and 3.5 times the surface of a 1/2.5". That's almost like S35 compared to S16 or S16 to S8.

Are there main differences between the M10 vs Mi10 Pro and what would they be, regarding video, sensors and cameras? cheers and  thanks 🙂

 

[Andrew Reid]

The Mi10 and mi10 pro have same main sensor, but the Pro model a slightly better lens (hardly noticeable difference in reality). The main difference is the extra aux lenses on the Pro.

108 MP, f/1.7, (wide), 1/1.33", 0.8µm, PDAF, Laser AF, OIS
12 MP, f/2.0, 50mm (telephoto), 1/2.55", 1.4µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, 2x optical zoom
8 MP, f/2.0, (telephoto), 1.0µm, PDAF, OIS, 3.7x optical zoom, 5x hybrid zoom
20 MP, f/2.2, 13mm (ultrawide), 1/2.8", 1.0µm

You get three including a 3.7x optical zoom module which can shoot 3K RAW video.

The ultrawide is on both the mi10 and mi10 pro and is capable of 4K RAW video, it's quite a good one.

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Mi10 and mi10 pro have same main sensor, but the Pro model a slightly better lens

Trying to track down reputable sellers of these Chinese cameras in the US seems to lead into some scammy corners of the internet.  

Be that as it may, I'm still considering going all in on a The Xiaomi 12S Ultra 'cuz I'd like something to use for a long stretch before upgrades, say, 5 years or so.

If I can find a cheap used Mi10 from a vendor that's not too sketchy, I might use that as a trial run and see how I like the Android side of things.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[fuzzynormal]

Also, just an aside, but Xiaomi is absolutely horrible at naming their devices.

[kye]

16 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Mi10 and mi10 pro have same main sensor, but the Pro model a slightly better lens (hardly noticeable difference in reality). The main difference is the extra aux lenses on the Pro.

108 MP, f/1.7, (wide), 1/1.33", 0.8µm, PDAF, Laser AF, OIS
12 MP, f/2.0, 50mm (telephoto), 1/2.55", 1.4µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, 2x optical zoom
8 MP, f/2.0, (telephoto), 1.0µm, PDAF, OIS, 3.7x optical zoom, 5x hybrid zoom
20 MP, f/2.2, 13mm (ultrawide), 1/2.8", 1.0µm

You get three including a 3.7x optical zoom module which can shoot 3K RAW video.

The ultrawide is on both the mi10 and mi10 pro and is capable of 4K RAW video, it's quite a good one.

Do you find that having RAW is more of a benefit on the wider cameras?  I'm having vague memories that RAW matters more on wider lenses because there's more detail visible in the scene and things are likely to be sharper due to having a deeper DoF.

I know on the iPhones the wide camera has historically been worse, but I'm not sure if that was just ISO performance.  I did direct comparisons with my iPhone 12 Mini cameras and found the main camera had equivalent amounts of ISO noise to my GH5 at about F2.8 but the wide was about F8!

[fuzzynormal]

FYI, went for a used Xiaomi 12S Ultra.  Will report back after using it a bit.

Thanks yet again for the advice.

[fuzzynormal]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:55 AM, Andrew Reid said:

The Xiaomi 12S Ultra has a 1" sensor and definitely outperforms Samsung in every way.

FYI, the Xiaomi 12S Ultra does not enable 10-bit recording through 3rd party apps like the mcpro24fps.  

Not a big deal for me, but if you're in the market, be aware.  Best bet is to just ask the developer directly if the hardware you wanna use is compatible with 10-bit.