Why I am no longer a Canon APS-C user

[Andrew Reid]

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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/canon-650d.jpg[/img]

I’m a filmmaker, and the Canon APS-C line fails to deliver what I need.

The 650D is the FIFTH APS-C DSLR Canon have released with no improvement in video quality.

Starting with the 7D (1) we’ve subsequently had the 550D (2), the 60D (3), the 600D (4) and now the 650D.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/?p=8185/"]Read full article[/url]

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[xenogears]

Sadly marketing is what rules in people mind...

[rommex]

I agree there is no sense to follow Canon's updates.

I use both still and video capability of my 7D, and own quite a line of EF glass. So I plan to downgrade from 7D to 550D and use the money for the future BMCC. I don't care about the 7D "imminent" firmware update (gosh, it took them SO long to do any update).

550D is known as the best Magic Lantern'friendly camera, so I will finally use ML.

[christianhubbard]

[quote author=rommex link=topic=837.msg6002#msg6002 date=1339532342]
I agree there is no sense to follow Canon's updates.

I use both still and video capability of my 7D, and own quite a line of EF glass. So I plan to downgrade from 7D to 550D and use the money for the future BMCC. I don't care about the 7D "imminent" firmware update (gosh, it took them SO long to do any update).

550D is known as the best Magic Lantern'friendly camera, so I will finally use ML.
[/quote]

Want to buy my 550d then? :D
magic lantern already installed

[gene_can_sing]

This is such a joke. Canon is a complete and utter joke.

What about the Moire and Aliasing on the new Rebel? Did they fix that at least?

Well, for me, I have a good chunk of money saved and am eagerly awaiting the FS700. It's strange to think that the Sony FS100 came out 1 year ago, and in one year, Sony does an upgrade that is 3x better. Canon spends 4 long years and doesn't do crap.

BTW, how is your Metabones working?

Have you thought of changing the name of your website from EOSHD? I feel that it somehow gives Canon some un-warranted street cred. when they don't deserve any.

[MatthewP]

Sorry to burst your bubble Andrew, but I'm pretty sure most of that video was shot in 720p... so the bad detail is to be expected.

I'm not saying 1080p is better than the previous canons, but you should have noticed that it's 720p footage. ;)

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=MatthewP link=topic=837.msg6005#msg6005 date=1339534857]
Sorry to burst your bubble Andrew, but I'm pretty sure most of that video was shot in 720p... so the bad detail is to be expected.[/quote]

Really? What gives you that idea? Also this bubble thing... Am I in a bubble? What bubble am I in?

[miseducation]

AF makes sense considering the Facebook-loving parents that make up the Rebel line's target audience. That said, I think a lack of a headphone jack is a pretty clear signal to video enthusiasts Canon wants them to be purchasing something higher up the product chain. I'm guessing the 70D will have a headphone jack and at least some of the reduced noise/moire of the Mark III.

Canon obviously want to start differentiating their product line between enthusiasts and people who will receive these cameras as a christmas gifts. I can't say that I blame them too much either, I made a good chunk of change with my old 550D and an AF-version of that entry-level DSLR look is more than enough for their target audience of Disney World documentarians.

Here's hoping we see that C100 sooner rather than later.

[moebius22]

It's brand recognition first and foremost. APS-C isn't bad for many people. Practically all the film students I know own a Rebel t2 - t3. I tell many students about pluses of the Gh2, but it doesn't give them that feeling of security that Canon stills camera does. The availability and costs seals the deal for many.

Auto-focus will probably clinch a great deal of wedding photographers looking to get started out.

[gene_can_sing]

To the above comment. It's 2012, should 720 60fps even exist? I don't think so. So if Canon did shoot it at 720, then they are just highlighting their own incompetence.

It's so strange, because on DVXuser, one of the Canon fanboys remarked that 720p is fine because vimeo mainly does 720p.  ??? Serious brainwashing there.

I do like the soft look for close ups, but I'd rather have a sharp image and then just add a 1 pixel blur in post. Much better than having a soft image and trying to sharpen in post.

As for the C-100, don't hold your breath. It's obvious that Canon is still not done milking their crippled 2008 tech. I heard that all future Canon cameras are going to come with a crutch.

[Germy1979]

The only thing video wise that Canon has a leg to stand on is the Technicolor Cinestyle PP imo.  If the GH2 had it, forget it.  I like my T2i for that reason alone, but other than that, the cadence on my GH2's 24p with 1/40 motion blur looks "right" to me in terms of Cinematic.  I'll never understand why Panasonic got the shaft on that deal.

[StivVid]

Well...  You've nearly got me convinced to jump ship too.  I've been holding onto my 7D despite not having much work for it anymore because I keep hoping that Canon will come to its senses and issue meaningful firmware upgrades to those of us using these cameras to shoot video.

I understand that the 7D is first and foremost a still camera, but a major selling point of this camera was its video capability.  It was developed and released hot on the heels of the success of the 5D Mark II which came as a complete surprise to Canon.  It was so much of a shock, that several years later they still don't understand what they've discovered and how the pro video landscape has irreversibly changed forever.

I don't want to go back to shooting on small sensor cameras--not even the 2/3 inch chip cameras I've used for 20 years now.  And unlike yourself, Andrew, I actually think APS-C is the perfect size for filmmaking.  What's so utterly frustrating is knowing that Canon has intentionally hobbled these cameras--they are capable of much better video performance.  The 7D resolves bags of detail when shooting stills, but switch to video mode and fine detail goes to mush.  That's not the hardware.  That's Canon's poor implementation of a poor choice of video codec, and the method Canon employs to downsample 18 mega pixels of information down to the roughly 2 mega pixels needed for HD video.  Surely those things could be improved in a firmware upgrade?

I don't see any difference at all between video shot on the 7D, 550D, 60D and now 650D.  As far as I can tell, they perform identically.  There is a big difference in build quality and handling, though, and as far as that is concerned I can find very little to complain about on the 7D.  It's a lovely object to hold and to shoot with and its build quality and weather resistance is top notch--as it should be.  After all, this is still currently the top of the line Canon APS-C offering.  It looks as though the 7D might sit at the top of the range for a while longer as well in light of news of a long awaited and very welcome firmware update.  I'm afraid it might be too little too late, though.  It's great that Canon have finally activated manual controls for audio, but if it doesn't sound any better than a Zoom H4N I'm not likely to use it even though it would be much more convenient to do so.

People are all fired up about the Blackmagic Cinema Camera and Sony's FS700.  I'm pretty excited too.  Problem is so few people are really ready for RAW or 4K.  (And before you say anything...  Yes.  I do know that you don't HAVE to shoot RAW on the Blackmagic camera and you don't HAVE to shoot 4K on the Sony camera.  Actually you can't shoot 4K on the Sony yet.)  The amount of storage space needed to shoot in these formats is staggering, let alone the additional space needed for backup and archiving.  HD is fine for me right now, and I think Canon already has the answer to these cameras in its APS-C line.  Especially the 7D with its dual processors which, as far as I know, aren't used for processing video at all--just stills.  I can't help but think those processors could be tasked to improving the 7D's video performance.

In fact...  I would be willing to pay for a video-specific firmware release that would effectively give those that would be interested--i.e. filmmakers--something akin to a 5D C, or 7D C.  Improved fine detail resolution, decreased moire and aliasing, peaking, zebras...  Yep.  I'd pay for that.  I've enjoyed shooting with the 7D, but if Canon don't do something soon, it's time to give it up and buy an FS100 or something that might actually help me pay the bills.

[tokyojerry]

I personally prefer my Sony Alpha camera.  When it comes to video capabilities in DSLRs, SLTs, whatever, it's either Sony gear or Panasonic.  Even the new Nikon 800 deploys Sony's sensor technology.

[bloodycape]

This is an interesting topic. I was at a wedding on Sunday and I noticed the two handheld video cameras was actually a 60D with a prime lens(not sure which one). On the other hand the camera that was on the camera dolly for over head shots and stuff was the C300, maybe even possibly the C500. Didn't realize that camera could easily be match by something like my GH2(not sure if you were referring to a hacked model or both). If that is the case why don't more companies use the devices with the likes of the GH2, or FS100 as they would be cheaper and lighter(at least in the case of the GH2), vs the 60D. That way they could lower their over all cost, specially with a nice adapted cine lens. Or would that not work because the Canon name is too strong? As a side note they were shooting pics with Nikon D700/800 cameras.

[Axel]

@bloodycape
The Zacuto "Revenge" road show is going on "in selected cinemas" these days, but the overall results have already been published: It's not the camera anymore, it's you! I contributed to a concert recording for multicam with my GH2 with a long lens on a tripod. There was a GoPro2 hidden behind the musicians. There was a mobile PMW EX3, but also instructed to film long shots with the good old zooms. There was one 550D and one 60D, both on shoulder rigs, to cover portrait shots. It was well planned. The good resolution cams for the wide shots, filming uninterrupted. The EOS for the beauty shots, with breaks to let the sensors cool. No problem at all to mix these sources in a multicam edit. The wedding you described also respects the particular strengths of the cameras. Nothing helps, of course, if the photographers are allowed to flash ...

[riogrande100]

[quote author=Axel link=topic=837.msg6023#msg6023 date=1339571355]
@bloodycape
The Zacuto "Revenge" road show is going on "in selected cinemas" these days, but the overall results have already been published: It's not the camera anymore, it's you! I contributed to a concert recording for multicam with my GH2 with a long lens on a tripod. There was a GoPro2 hidden behind the musicians. There was a mobile PMW EX3, but also instructed to film long shots with the good old zooms. There was one 550D and one 60D, both on shoulder rigs, to cover portrait shots. It was well planned. The good resolution cams for the wide shots, filming uninterrupted. The EOS for the beauty shots, with breaks to let the sensors cool. No problem at all to mix these sources in a multicam edit. The wedding you described also respects the particular strengths of the cameras. Nothing helps, of course, if the photographers are allowed to flash ...
[/quote]

And that is exactly where Canon strong point is when shooting the portrait shots, the soft look of the camera makes skin tones and people look amazing! However for wide shots the softness harms the image!

I have both GH2 and 5D and prefer 5D to shoot people than the GH2 even with hack! Most people will shoot the video of the canon of their families so the quality to them would be excellent!

Lets not forget that people cna't even update their phones, and are more than happy with grainy phone images for holidays and vacations! So the video of them and their friends shot on the canon will look much better!

We are disappointed with Canon lack of resolution boost? But appreciate that the look that the camera has for video and color is the most film like.

For me cameras like the c300 and c500 are for everything videos, movies documentaries, wide, close long etc!

Whereas the DSLR for canon is mainly to record people and mid to close ranges!

On a side note: i shot with the em5 and hacked gh2 and so far the EM5 seems sharper and also had no moire!

[Samuel H]

all I was expecting from the new rebel is that it wouldn't have aliasing/moire, and it would have the new codecs (all-I and IPB)

codec thing seems to be missing, and that doesn't bode well for the aliasing/moire thing

I just bought myself a NEX-5N, if it's similar to the old APS-C canons but slightly improved, it will get me by while I wait for a blackmagic camera with a bigger sensor

[TJB]

For the most part I agree with Andrew. The only difference is that I don't find myself an either or type. I choose my cameras for their strenghts both full frame or APS-C and choose the GH2 for landscapes and only when it's overcast to avoid horrible highlight clipping.
Australian Broadcasting just aired a documentary on the London Olympics. "U.K. London Swings"
I found a couple of Andrew's tripod marks around Westminster bridge.
abc.net.au/foreign
http://vimeo.com/43783066
I shot most of the colour footage and reverse two shots on a GH2. The rest I shot with a P2 broadcast camera. The program makers were very pleased with the GH2 footage and I found the GH2 perfect for this particular shoot.

[jaybirch]

The canon's still seem to have an extra stop or more DR over the GH2.

For some, that is more important than resolution. If I were doing a narrative on a shoestring budget, i'd still pick a Canon DSLR over the GH2

[Remsy_Atassi]

Did you ever use Canon APSC or are you just complaining? I'm as disappointed as anybody that they haven't improved IQ of this line but isn't this a bit of a dramatic title given you mostly shoot on a GH2 and 5Ds?

Is there a new point here? Rehash browns?