Official Atomos Shogun thread (4K, A7S, GH4, NX1)

[Andrew Reid]

It downscales 4K realtime in your edit and takes no longer on the export, I don't see how you save time crippling the image at acquisition

[ade towell]

what is the hdmi lag like between sony a7s and shogun, it looked quite bad on the gh4?
 

[DigitalEd]

And videos or info on how the Shogun works with the NX1 yet anyplace ?.

[Andrew Reid]

I just tested it on the NX1 and I can get a very nice 4K feed working. Details coming on the blog.

[tupp]

I just tested it on the NX1 and I can get a very nice 4K feed working. Details coming on the blog.

​​Thank you for all the great work and info.

 

Interested in knowing if the NX1's best feed is cinema-4K at 10-bits, 422, etc.

 

Also, it would be very helpful to be able to download a 5-second, unaltered clip of a person "tits up," in both the NX1's native h265 and in the Shogun's best format. 

 

Thanks!

[douglaurent]

tested the sony a7s together with 4k recording in shogun today in direct comparison to the canon 1DC (4k internal recording).   in lowlight and iso ranges of 3200 and above, the 1DC is a bit sharper and has a bit less noise than the a7s.   no big deal, other than the fact that this forum celebrated the a7s as the lowlight king #1, will claim the a7s plus shogun is a new world sensation, and still sees the 1DC as shitty camera.  now together with a shogun mounted on top of a 1DC, the canon combination beats the sony in every aspect except price (which is far less disturbing when taking into account that the value of a used 1DC is also much higher than of an a7s).  the rolling shutter of the a7s also makes the camera unusable in many situations.  the shogun itself is a great tool so far, except its glossy display, unfinished firmware and minor other things.

1DC crop:

A7S crop:

[flablo]

A little bit off topic, but: does the Lindy Micro HDMI cable fit with the Sony plastic cable protector? I'm looking for a fitting short cable. Thanks

[mat321]

It downscales 4K realtime in your edit and takes no longer on the export, I don't see how you save time crippling the image at acquisition

​Yeah i know but does it not make your computer busy, if you have 4 or 5 pist....

 

You save time and space, you say it yourself that 4k make big files that's why you like prores LT. But of course 4k is great.

 

Thanks

See you

[Ed_David]

​​Thank you for all the great work and info.

 

Interested in knowing if the NX1's best feed is cinema-4K at 10-bits, 422, etc.

 

Also, it would be very helpful to be able to download a 5-second, unaltered clip of a person "tits up," in both the NX1's native h265 and in the Shogun's best format. 

 

Thanks!

​I think it can do 8 bit 4:2:2 out of its hdmi port.

 

only the gh4 and sony fs7 can do 10 bit 4:2:2 right now

[mdebono]

Thought it would look more bulky with an A7S!

Andrew do you know of any store in Europe that is shipping now? CVP will be shipping in beginning of January according to their site.

Also, what resolution & frame rate will the A7S record in camera whilst recording in 4k on the Shogun?

[Andrew Reid]

Thought it would look more bulky with an A7S!

Andrew do you know of any store in Europe that is shipping now? CVP will be shipping in beginning of January according to their site.

Also, what resolution & frame rate will the A7S record in camera whilst recording in 4k on the Shogun?

​Don't know of anyone else yet, but if everyone can keep an eye out and post when they find it, would be great! The A7S doesn't record internally when 4K output is enabled over HDMI unfortunately. GH4 does I think, but only in 8bit not 10bit. NX1 does not and the menus are locked up too.

[Andrew Reid]

got my shogun, it's great except its unfinished firmware (no playback) and the glossy display.  did compare the sony a7s with shogun recording 4k and the 1dc with a second shogun on top recording 4k inside the camera.  both deliver great image results, but the 1dc is still a bit sharper and has a bit less noise.  attached are 2 crops with 2x otus 55/1.4 at iso 64000, 1/50 and f4.  1dc pic above, a7s below:

​Which picture profile, both in LOG? The only way the A7S is going to be noisier is if you underexposed the S-LOG and brought it up in post. That would explain the images you posted.

ISO 6400 or 64000? Doesn't the 1D C top out at 12800?!

[douglaurent]

​Which picture profile, both in LOG? The only way the A7S is going to be noisier is if you underexposed the S-LOG and brought it up in post. That would explain the images you posted.

ISO 6400 or 64000? Doesn't the 1D C top out at 12800?!

​the 1DC goes to ISO 204.000.  the A7S only looks a bit less noisy (but still less sharp) in areas from 50-200.000 ISO, but i don't see where anyone can use footage above 12.800 professionally anyway.  in the test, 1DC had c-log and a7s s-log, and it was not brought up in post.  still the a7s delivers impressive lowlight quality - but it doesnt beat the 1DC.  if sony would have had a lowlight technology that stands far above canon's AND sells it for 1/5 of the price, that would have been a wonder, and wonder's rarely do happen in combination of more features for less money...  i simply think too few people did use the 1DC too little time, as the price is way too high.  now together with the shogun this is really beautiful system, only with the lack of 4k 60p.  i am sure canon will come up with 4k for the 5D4 and C300 II in 2015, the question will be:  does it have 4k 60p?   i fear not, that might be left for an expensive C500 II.  so we might have the canon discussion for a little more time.  in any event the shogun might be a product that can be used for much longer time than any of the cameras.

[Birk Kromann]

​the 1DC goes to ISO 204.000.  the A7S only looks a bit less noisy (but still less sharp) in areas from 50-200.000 ISO, but i don't see where anyone can use footage above 12.800 professionally anyway.  in the test, 1DC had c-log and a7s s-log, and it was not brought up in post.  still the a7s delivers impressive lowlight quality - but it doesnt beat the 1DC.  if sony would have had a lowlight technology that stands far above canon's AND sells it for 1/5 of the price, that would have been a wonder, and wonder's rarely do happen in combination of more features for less money...  i simply think too few people did use the 1DC too little time, as the price is way too high.  now together with the shogun this is really beautiful system, only with the lack of 4k 60p.  i am sure canon will come up with 4k for the 5D4 and C300 II in 2015, the question will be:  does it have 4k 60p?   i fear not, that might be left for an expensive C500 II.  so we might have the canon discussion for a little more time.  in any event the shogun might be a product that can be used for much longer time than any of the cameras.

​Being a A7s owner I find it very difficult to recognise any of what you are writing. I don't have the Shogun yet but can't imagine it would affect the ISO performance. 
I know DxOMark are not always the best source of information for filmmakers but in regards to ISO I find their numbers very believable. As the 1Dc and 1Dx share the same sensor I have chosen to compare the A7s to that:

A7s score: 3702
1Dx score: 2786

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7S-versus-Canon-EOS-1Dx___949_753

​I don't see how one of the biggest test labs could be more than a 1000 points off, but please let me know if I have missed anything.

[DigitalEd]

Looking at the test on dox it seems like a photography test not a video test and from what i have seen none of the DSLR cameras do video half as good as they do low light photos in the high iso settings.

 

But still that A7S to 1DC test posted here makes the A7S look nothing like what any of the reviews have been saying but maybe they never tested it to the 1DC like this.

[Birk Kromann]

Looking at the test on dox it seems like a photography test not a video test and from what i have seen none of the DSLR cameras do video half as good as they do low light photos in the high iso settings.

​That is normally the case for bit depth and DR, but not as much for ISO - especially not with the codecs on the A7s and 1Dc. Even with a big difference between video and photo the relation between the two should still be roughly the same, right?

[tupp]

tested the sony a7s together with 4k recording in shogun today in direct comparison to the canon 1DC (4k internal recording).

​Thank you for posting your test.

 

It appears that the A7S image was exposed (or displayed) at about 2-3 stops brighter than that of the 1DC, which could explain much of the noise difference.  Do you have any shots in which the exposure is identical?

[douglaurent]

​Being a A7s owner I find it very difficult to recognise any of what you are writing. I don't have the Shogun yet but can't imagine it would affect the ISO performance. I know DxOMark are not always the best source of information for filmmakers but in regards to ISO I find their numbers very believable. As the 1Dc and 1Dx share the same sensor I have chosen to compare the A7s to that:

A7s score: 3702
1Dx score: 2786

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7S-versus-Canon-EOS-1Dx___949_753

​I don't see how one of the biggest test labs could be more than a 1000 points off, but please let me know if I have missed anything.

​i also own a red epic dragon which is #1 on dxo mark, and unfortunately i have to say that both the 1DC and A7S beat the red by far regarding lowlight and noise.  dxo mark often does not have anything to do with what you see in reality or need for projects.  their own fantasy test science produces results that are always against canon.  especially as photo cameras it is a pure joke if you don't rank the a7s way behind the 1dc.

[douglaurent]

​Thank you for posting your test.

 

It appears that the A7S image was exposed (or displayed) at about 2-3 stops brighter than that of the 1DC, which could explain much of the noise difference.  Do you have any shots in which the exposure is identical?

​it was the exact same exposure, lens, fstop, shutter, iso setting.  there are lots more frame grabs and videos, and the result is always the same.  people should simply do their own tests and they will see - unfortunately it seems hardly anybody has tested the 1DC in comparison to other cameras, as not too many own it.

[douglaurent]

​Being a A7s owner I find it very difficult to recognise any of what you are writing. I don't have the Shogun yet but can't imagine it would affect the ISO performance. I know DxOMark are not always the best source of information for filmmakers but in regards to ISO I find their numbers very believable. As the 1Dc and 1Dx share the same sensor I have chosen to compare the A7s to that:

A7s score: 3702
1Dx score: 2786

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7S-versus-Canon-EOS-1Dx___949_753

​I don't see how one of the biggest test labs could be more than a 1000 points off, but please let me know if I have missed anything.

​by the way:  the shogun of course doesnt affect the sony a7s iso performance or makes it worse.  shogun records as it is.  the a7s lowlight performance is also very good.   it's just not "outstanding, unseen and much better than any canon" good.  it's simply a bit weaker than the 1DC, but still good, especially for the money.  if you want to have internal recording, a great pro photo camera, less rolling shutter etc, you still need to pay the high price for the canon.