Canon 1D C used price slips under £5000 - and why I decided to take the gamble and get one

[Kristoferman]

When you get a chance try the s35 mode. Best HD image you'll ever see. Really quite special in C-log.

​I'd be interested to see some Lomo primes on it shooting in s35!  I know you said the Cookes aren't usable, but I believe their are canon to oct-19 adapters out there.

[Andrew Reid]

Like with PL lenses, there are very few OCT 19 lenses that fit the EF adapters.

There are PL - EF adapters out there as well but hardly anything works in them! To shallow!

[Andrew Reid]

​Are the prices falling fast?  As compared to what?

You are completely delusional if you think you will be able to pick up a Cinema Camera below $2,000 any time in the next couple of years.  Even a Canon 5D mark III isn't below $2,000 on the used market.

Honestly Andrew's purchase of a 1DC just confirms what I've been saying all along.  Canon is and will remain number one or at least a close number two... But most likely number one.  After all this time and all the posts denigrating Canon and praising Sony and Panasonic what happened?  Sony and Panasonic ran around like chickens with their heads cut off creating brand new never before seen product categories... Canon did... nothing.  Andrew?  He spent more buying Canon gear than Sony and Panasonic combined!  And there is nothing wrong with that.  I predicted this event.

​Prices aren't falling fast? The C500 just got a £10,000 price drop at Park Cameras http://www.parkcameras.com/23725/Canon-EOS-C500-EF.html

It's now £9999 and in-stock, and they still can't seem to shift them.

Canon may be number one for the 1D C's image but it came too expensively.

They are number 5 in the market that really matters. Behind Sony, Nikon, Blackmagic and Panasonic for anything affordable!

C100 and C300 are the last gasp of the 1080p era... workhorses that were great in their day but we're moving on quick from this era now. People need high speed and high resolution.

That C500 is bound to be attractive to someone at £9999! Or perhaps they think it should do 4K internally for that price considering the FS7 is out now. Times change. Opinions change. Better accept it.

[noa]

I wonder if that's right, they also have the c300 ef mount on sale for 10560 pound and the c500 with pl mount is 16000. Can't believe they are selling the c500 with ef mount cheaper then the c300 unless it's second hand?

[photographer-at-large]

I would be curious if the Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 covers the 1.3x 4K crop?

[Andrew Reid]

I would be curious if the Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 covers the 1.3x 4K crop?

​I like people who ask good questions

[Goes off to check...]

Yes it's a good fit actually. Only the tiniest little bit of corner shading at 1.3x in 4K. The 1.85:1 crop gets rid of most of it. Easily fixable in post for the shots where it shows up (i.e. on a plain wall or sky). There's no hard vignetting. Any shading is pretty much gone by 24mm.

Looks great!

[Andrew Reid]

I wonder if that's right, they also have the c300 ef mount on sale for 10560 pound and the c500 with pl mount is 16000. Can't believe they are selling the c500 with ef mount cheaper then the c300 unless it's second hand?

​Apparently they bought two C500 EFs when they first came out and haven't been able to shift them. Park are a stills photography store.

[Damphousse]

​Prices aren't falling fast? The C500 just got a £10,000 price drop at Park Cameras http://www.parkcameras.com/23725/Canon-EOS-C500-EF.html

It's now £9999 and in-stock, and they still can't seem to shift them.

​I was asking not making a statement.  And I picked up a BMPCC for 50% off launch price last summer... along with half the planet.  That's why I asked compared to what.

In fact you can still pick it up for over 32% off brand new on ebay.

I was incredulous about people talking about picking up a Cinema Camera for less than $2,000 any time soon.  I think that is a bit of irrational exuberance.

Now what goes on with cameras that cost more than cars?  I don't know.  I am definitely no expert.

 

​Apparently they bought two C500 EFs when they first came out and haven't been able to shift them. Park are a photography store.

​

B&H has the camera for $20,000 so I think the price you found is an aberration.  I'm no expert though.  My query was really concerning the C300 and below.

Honestly seeing what happened with the Sony F5 4k hack doesn't make me think that Sony is wearing the white hat when it comes to juicing people for $10K.

[Damphousse]

​If I were buying Sony stock, it would probably have to do in large part because of their camera sensors. It's one of the few divisions at Sony that's still profitable, and I saw an article a few months ago where they were going to really focus on the profitable parts of their company and cut dead weight.  You also have to remember that it isn't just Sony that uses the Sony sensor tech.

​Imaging chip fab and camera division are two different departments.

[Leica50mm]

Watch this in 4K and tell me how over priced the Red Dragon is : http://vimeo.com/115632433

By James Miller . 

[jcs]

Watch this in 4K and tell me how over priced the Red Dragon is : http://vimeo.com/115632433

By James Miller . 

​Yeah that camera can't even do color!

The Red Dragon is a solid camera and in very high demand (both for purchase and rental). Shop around for others cameras which can do 4K+ slow motion and their prices. The F55 (and FS7) do 4K@60, but don't provide the image quality or color science of the Dragon. Red's wavelet compressed RAW is also helpful re:disk space vs. ARRIRAW etc.

[sam]

Watch this in 4K and tell me how over priced the Red Dragon is : http://vimeo.com/115632433

By James Miller . 

​When James first got the Epic Dragon he posted a video still from the Epic (cant remember if he cropped or scaled the 6k down) and his 1Dc of the same scene.  He was very impressed by how close 1DC compared if I recall. 

 But, with variable compression ratios of your choosing + supposed16bit raw + film log+ high frame rates+ 6k on down + anamorphic modes I would take it for the $$$.  Anyone want to trade an Epic (or Scarlet Dragon) for my 1DC and some cash ?

 

[sam]

I wonder how the image from the 1DC looks recorded to the Shogun. The 1DC when set to 4k in cam and recorded uncompressed to Dpx  in the odyssey 7Q seems to eliminate the banding and noise of the Mjpeg in camera Log.  Also helps the aliasing and slight oversharpening when compared to 4k downscaled in post.  I also feel like I can push the image around more than the in cam Mjpeg or even transcoded to another codec.  It makes the 1DC a lot less portable, but the image is 100 % the best I can get out of the cam. 

[Leica50mm]

 

i think this is going to be the year of the dragon. 

Happy 2015!

[jgharding]

Even at £10,000 I wouldn't buy a C500. It needs an external recorder to do anything impressive.

Canon camcorder division just need to stop playing games and actually answer the FS7. That's the only piece of kit around now that says "buy me and your work will look better and I will be worth more to you than I cost", at the business end of the market.

[Andrew Reid]

It is just such a shame they overpriced the 1D C. The 1D X should have had 4K and the would have sold so many and demolished the competition.

[Andrew Reid]

 

The 4K image is really lovely.. especially in log. The 4K MJPEG files are a bit of a pain to edit with but converting to prores using the ITU-R BT 601 full range setting in 5DtoRGB creates files with identical colour and gamma range as the original MJPEG files. I was surprised to learn that 1Dc uses BT 601 colour space for 4K.. all the other video modes use rec 709.

​

​Thanks for the tip, I'm going to try 5DtoRGB.

iFFMPEG does well but there is a slight colour shift in the reds going on between the original MJPEG Canon LOG and ProRes.

[Rudolf]

For € 5000 you can get 150minutes of Vision 3 Super 8 including processing and telecine and a beautiful Braun Nizo camera

That looks so close to 16mm hard to spot any difference

[Andrew Reid]

Unfortunately I don't think that 150 mins will last me out the year

[sam]

I bought a 1Dc a couple of years ago for my work in Hong Kong where I now live. It seemed like a good deal at the time as the HK price cost the equivalent of US10K which was 2K less than the US price. I was going to buy a C100 but changed my mind after some seeing footage from the 1Dc.

The 4K image is really lovely.. especially in log. The 4K MJPEG files are a bit of a pain to edit with but converting to prores using the ITU-R BT 601 full range setting in 5DtoRGB creates files with identical colour and gamma range as the original MJPEG files. I was surprised to learn that 1Dc uses BT 601 colour space for 4K.. all the other video modes use rec 709.

This link has some interesting info about 1Dc:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?304245-Some-interesting-facts-about-Canon-1D-C-you-probably-don-t-know-about&s=8f9930e14975030afa7d7f6562279bbc

If you prefer to shoot smaller file sizes, super 35 HD mode is underrated. The quality is brilliant and quite a bit less skew/jello than 4K. The full HD modes are softer than s35 but slightly sharper than 5D mk3 and also seem to have a tad more DR in neutral etc by comparison to 5D mk3.

Abelcine has some really useful luts for canon log:

http://blog.abelcine.com/2013/12/04/canon-luts-for-the-c100-c300-and-c500/

I’ve had best results using the wide DR luts to grade beneath in resolve or fcpx.

The one feature that I’de really wish canon would implement is a waveform monitor. Log works brilliantly if you hit the sweet spot but it’s easy to under or over expose without a waveform. Unfortunately the view assist feature is not very good judging exposure and I prefer to shoot without external devices.

Brilliant for stills & overall a great versatile beast of camera. Expensive compared to what’s now on offer from Sony & Panasonic but for me no regrets.

​I also found those luts a while back. The custom ones from Andy Shipsides work but the rec.709 from canon clipped highlights quickly. I think From what I've read and my own experience the Log from the 1dc is slightly different than that of the other c-log canons. (probably the BT601)   I think Looklabs neutral start works well with the 1dc camera patch applied as a drag and drop starting point.

Agree about the log sweet spot.  waveform would be great.