NX1 second thoughts, change for GH4 or A7S

[Hitfabryk]

Having a luxury problem: 

I have a brand new NX1 & 16-50mmS lens but I am not happy, especially with the H265 codec.

Wondershare is working but not reliably, maybe because of my computer (I Mac air)..

I am testing, but every time I have to check the footage I have to wait and wait..terrible. Maybe I am very impatience.

And the size of the (prores) files..&*(%^& maybe I am not ready for 4K.

What I saw from the 1080 was one but not special.

I also want a easy and quick workflow, what was I thinking..?

I do take several takes from bands in 1 day, sometimes 10 or more with a length of around  4 minutes, 5 overdubs vocal or solo guitar.

I didn't thought it trough, but I still can sent the NX1 back and maybe with the GH4 or the A7s my workflow will be  lot easier..

It's stupid, but these arguments, H265.., file size, 4k editing time consuming etc I did't 'saw' it.

 

Would these cams GH4 or the A7s be easier in workflow, editing on a mac? For the time being it can also be 1080 output..

but it has to be an upgrade for my EM1 ( I still like, but maybe can use as an extra handheld cam)

Thanks

Siep

www.hitfabryk.nl

 

[Andrew Reid]

Macbook Air is very much underpowered for the transcode of H.265.

It's not a problem unique to H.265. The 4K MJPEG on the 1D C really needs transcoding to ProRes as well for smoother editing and playback.

At least H.265 saves you space when it comes to archive the masters after the edit is unlocked. Saves you a heap of money in terms of the cards you record on too.

The A7S has the easiest workflow for you, 1080p internal.

Editing any kind of 4K footage on a Macbook Air is going to pose a problem so I say stick to 1080p for now.

I am loving the NX1's image. Colours are spot on right out of the box on standard whilst the A7S takes a heck of a lot of grading. With both on standard or Rec 709 the A7S seems to have a brown 'mist' enveloping the image. It isn't the white balance. It just doesn't have the crystal clear saturation of the NX1. Maybe it's the quality of the glass over the sensor that is a problem or the micro lenses / angle of light.

[Hitfabryk]

Thanks Andrew,

 

Colours are great  I have to say, but for me a little frustrating with the 'tuning' of wondershare and the crashes etc..

I also notice a NX1 problem, that I also addressed on the NX1 user Facebook site..it's with manual setting and a fixed iso stand that

if you make a very tiny pan it looks like the light intensity is changing.. like it's on auto iso.. very strange. It's not only visable on the screen but also on

the recorded video. There are some reactions of NX users that reconize my findings. 

How about the Gh4? did you allready tried it with the Shogun..because of the m43 lenses I already own  it also could be a good choice is't it..?

I realize that the shogun is again a step in the 4k world but I have a iMac(5K) coming soon.

Like i said, luxury problems

 

Siep

 

 

  

[jcs]

If you're shooting bands, definitely the A7S. Clean lowlight is very helpful, the 50Mbps 1080p files are small, high quality, and easy to edit. The A7S with the Sony SEL18200 lens makes a great run & gun / documentary camera using IS, AutoFocus, AutoISO, and if radically changing lighting colors, AutoWB. When used with full frame lenses and all manual settings, shots can look filmic, and if using a tweaked color profile, careful manual white balance, broad-spectrum lighting, and a little post work, skin tones can look decent.

For low light, try tweaking PP3 and PP4. For brighter light, try tweaking PP5 & PP6. For very bright, high dynamic range shots, tweak PP7 (start with changing Color Mode from S Gamut to Pro, Rec709, or Cinema). Gammas CINE1, CINE2, and SLOG2 are good for bright light, CINE3, CINE4, REC709 are better for normal or low light, Color Modes Cinema and Rec709 look nice for skin tones, Pro is a decent balance of skin tones and scene colors. 

I've been using the GH4 mostly for greenscreen and outdoor/nature/landscape in bright light shots only. For up close work, Canon 5D3 (H.264) looks very nice for skin tones, and the softness lends to a filmic look. When more detail and color is desired, 5D3 ML RAW is the best deal available right now. If you also need high quality stills, 5D3 hands down. Looking forward to seeing what Canon does with the 5D4!

More A7S skintones (stock PP6 with post work in Premiere Pro CC):

http://brightland.com/w/delta-bts/

 

[Cinegain]

Thanks Andrew,

 

Colours are great  I have to say, but for me a little frustrating with the 'tuning' of wondershare and the crashes etc..

I also notice a NX1 problem, that I also addressed on the NX1 user Facebook site..it's with manual setting and a fixed iso stand that

if you make a very tiny pan it looks like the light intensity is changing.. like it's on auto iso.. very strange. It's not only visable on the screen but also on

the recorded video. There are some reactions of NX users that reconize my findings. 

How about the Gh4? did you allready tried it with the Shogun..because of the m43 lenses I already own  it also could be a good choice is't it..?

I realize that the shogun is again a step in the 4k world but I have a iMac(5K) coming soon.

Like i said, luxury problems

 

Siep

Hoi Siep. 

Came across Mike Kobal on zhe interw3bz the other day. He said he used to be just like me, having different cameras for different purposes... he told me he now uses the A7S for just about everything. I have to give it to the A7S, it does look like a pretty damn sweet camera (haven't had the oppertunity of playing around with one unfortunately). To me there's just something magical about the fullframe look (be it Canon, Nikon, Sony or whatever). I'd love to get the A7S, but for me personally lenses is the issue at play here. I don't know about you, but I got a lot of lenses that will cover my M43 sensors (GH2, GH4, E-M1, BMPCC), but hardly any that will cover the fullframe A7S. So that's one thing that's kind of holding me back, needing to invest in fullframe covering lenses. 2nd thing is that the GH4 will record 4K internally. It does give you a decent amount of flexibility and quality, also, the filesizes are acceptable. Surely I can get a Shogun or the likes to use with the A7S, but it's gonna cost and add bulk. I'd say... if you're not interested in playing around with 4K, or don't mind getting the Shogun, don't mind as well getting fullframe covering lenses (or only have the need for one general purpose lens lens), then the A7S seems an awesome choice.

If you're already invested in the M43 system like me, have a bunch of native lenses, or lenses like the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 and Sigma ART 18-35mm f/1.8 optimized for APS-C cameras, then why not get the GH4? It's much more friendly to shoot video with than the E-M1 and quality is way up there. It also gives you 4K internally without spending a dime more on some external recorder and the filesizes are manageable. And I love not adding stuff to my camera. That's why 4K internally and M43 lenses, I can keep it small if I have to. Of course I can always rig it up and decorate it like a christmas tree as well if that's what the situation requires. I just think it's fun to play with 4K and have its flexibility and quality at your disposal, even with the smallest of setups. Have been using the E-M1 exclusively for photography since I've gotten the GH4. Actually I might just sell the E-M1 before a E-M2 gets announced and still get some money for it while I can.

The NX1 seems a little ahead of its time, which is working against it a bit ('t is een zegen en een vloek). Also, personally I'm not in love with the Samsung look. Yes the colors are nice, but from what I've seen it's the typical Samsungy contrast, saturation, crispness and roll off of highlights that I expected, but I'm just not really a fan of that sorta thing. The Samsung might just be the best over a longer period of time. You'll upgrade eventually and your hard- and software will go through the H265 like a hot knife through butter. Also, Samsung is bound to bring out some firmware updates based on feedback and bugs to enhance its handling. But yeah, that doesn't really help you NOW, now does it?

Don't think I'd personally be getting a NX1 anytime soon and since I love the fullframe look so much, I might just go for that. That means an A7S... or maybe just even the Nikon D750 / D810 (or who knows what 2015 brings, 5DmkIV?), since like I said, I'd be starting from scratch in the fullframe segment anyways, although the A7S definitly has the mirrorless and 4K advantage and I do like to be able to keep things a bit more compact if I can. But for now, I can't even see me doing that unless I win the lottery and go both fullframe and stick to M43rds. I'm very happy with what I've got lying around so far.

[Hitfabryk]

Thanks JCS and (dank je) Cinegain, (Austria?)

Great answers and you nailed it really good Cinegain and also have some same experiences (EM1).. Strange, this evening I was looking to some 

handheld good lighted video from the EM1, I don't know what is is but I like it..So maybe I don't look back if I make a definite choice on other hand

I can imagine that I still can use it for video, we will see. I don't want to sell it yet. I don't have that much lenses, but they are alright: Panny 14mm, 1.8

Olly 25mm 1.8, Olly 45mm 1.8 and a 75mm-300mm (I used the 600mm plus extended and got a great shot from the moon)

If I go for the A7S I think I can use my Pentax 50mm 1.7 and my canon FD 55mm 1.2/ 50mm 1.4 and the FD 28mm 2.8  I think (I am sure)  I will need an adapter..

With the GH4 I can use the 4.3 lenses.

I come from a Sony FX1, then the EX1, then the canon 7D, then the Panny GX7 (was stolen) then the EM1.. The EX1 was super, I thought I could live with the 7D..

Now I have to make an other decision..

Thanks

Siep

 

[Cinegain]

Would be ideal if you'd happen to know someone with a GH4 and/or A7S willing to let you borrow it... but I guess that's not the case?

Well... then renting is always a thing of course. Or purchasing and sending back the one you don't like, if the store's policy allows that sorta thing.

The E-M1 isn't thát bad. But for video, even though the E-M1 has IBIS, I just find the GH4 to be a much nicer tool.

_{(Expat NL-er. )}

[DigitalEd]

Cinegain

If you looked at my NX1 video i posted the contrast and colors are as you pointed out but that is not the way they come out of the camera i boosted the contract and colors up a lot. what comes out of the 4K is very good and full of details and seems to be very easy to edit into what ever you want i am keeping mine. Cant wait to see the full review when it is out here and see what is posted about it. The NX1 might be the underdog all around winner for price and image quality in 4K

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

Ouch, now I'm on the fence also......I have experienced this "auto iso/exposure change" when in full manual......sometimes it happens, sometimes not. I have noticed that it happens when i point the camera at overexposed area like lights in the ceiling or if a white wall is clipped behind the subject.

But I love the colors and image out of it, and the 100fps is nice. I don't like how the lens is a little difficult to use manually and I hate that just zooming a little bit sets the focus off a little bit....so zooming as material is worthless, unless its really slow and on auto focus. And there is a slight flicker when you zoom in and out fast, even when i set the fstop to a solid 2.8 through out the range.

I always wanted the Sony A7s but thought it was a tad bit too expensive, went for the NX1 cause I wanted a nice photo camera also with autofocus. But it is more important to have good quality video for me and my work.

Damn it, have to decide fast........

[William Reynish]

Get the A7s. You won't regret it. Even if some of your lenses only cover APS-C, the A7s has an APS-C mode. 

For full frame glass, the A7s is obviously perfect. Adapters for old lenses are easy to find and very cheap. I've got a bunch from eBay and they work great.

The 1080p is really nice from the A7s, really a step up from most other 1080p-capable DSLRs.

[ESGI Media]

Here are a bunch of NX1 4K screencaps from a miserable day in London. No grading at all. It may help your decision. When I edit the footage, I'll probably drop the contrast and pull a little bit more out of the shadows. 

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk6wMjip

[Andrew Reid]

I also notice a NX1 problem, that I also addressed on the NX1 user Facebook site..it's with manual setting and a fixed iso stand that

if you make a very tiny pan it looks like the light intensity is changing.. like it's on auto iso.. very strange. It's not only visable on the screen but also on

the recorded video. There are some reactions of NX users that reconize my findings.  

​Turn off Dynamic Range +

It acts as auto-iso.

Cheers

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

Im still experiencing this this light change even with SmartRange+ off(triple checkd). I will upload a clip on youtube to show you. Thinking about this more...... It could be just a flare effect, when light is bounced directly at the lens......I am not sure. 

[Andrew Reid]

What lens are you using?

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

Here is a video demonstrating the light shift effect:

Look at the drawing of the little girl and how it gets brighter when I pan/tilt

 

What do you guys think?

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

What lens are you using?

​Samsung 16-50S

[Andrew Reid]

Looks like something is on auto. Check all the menus and stuff for anything obvious. You're in M mode right!? If there's any lens optimisation like vignette reduction turned on that might be a culprit.

Seem to remember I had the same problem with my Samsung lens attached when I first got the NX1 but I quickly turned off something and it went away. If only I could remember what

[Cinegain]

Weird thing is it seems to get brighter when the scene gets brighter and darker when the scene gets darker.

If it was some exposure control, wouldn't you expect the exact opposite (darker when scene gets brighter and vice versa)?

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

I don't understand what could be doing this. I am checking again and again for anything in the menu or on the camera to turn off. I even turned OIS off. Everything is off and the dial on manual. 

I sooooo love the image from this camera and the auto focus, I really don't want to send it back. But if i'm stuck with this I'm afraid I have to. 

Are you not experiencing this Andrew? Could it be the lens?

[Andrew Reid]

Could definitely be the lens. I strongly recommend trying a lens adapter and a manual lens on it to find that out.

Does the 16-50 have an intelligent "i" button on it?