NX1 second thoughts, change for GH4 or A7S

[Andrew Reid]

I can turn on Smart Range + to get the exact same issue but then it vanishes when turned off.

Smart Range + in the movie menu only affects image when in standby preview movie mode or whilst recording and the "Dynamic Range" option for Smart Range + / HDR in the stills menu only affects live-view whilst not in standby or recording. Seems to work right and I am on v1.10 as well.

Maybe something went wrong with the firmware update. Did it reset all your settings upon upgrading? Did mine!

When I first got the NX1 with Smart Range + turned on I was "WTF" as well. Some people who are unawares of what that does are reporting it as a bug when it isn't. You guys seem to have a genuine bug going on with it.

[Brian Luce]

Resetting seems to help further minimize the bug. Andrew, are you doing multiple pans from bright to dark in one take? My first pan or two even seems stable, but eventually the exposure pumping returns after the third or so pan in a given continuous take.

[DigitalEd]

After playing with my settings a lot i can now not reproduce the problem have testing it over 2 days just inside the house but i am now not seeing the shift i was seeing.

I am using a custom setting with color and sharpness set -5, Framing off, Smart range off , Center focus point, Touch AF on when i want AF so when i touch the screen it locks the focus on that area its faster then Manuel focus and locks it so it will not drift focus then push AFON to release it and touch to refocus on something else taking a bit to get used to but works well.

When in Manuel focus i turned off the focus zoom in feature I find that to be more of a pain in then then being help full the focus edge detection works very well in the full screen view so i can see the full area i am shooting..

I am taking the camera with me in just a few and will shoot some outside today and see if it still keeps working right with no up and down changes. Will play with the 120 slow mo today to.

I still think the NX1 VS the A7S and GH4 is the better camera for over all video quality just look at the HD quality VS the other two. I do plan to shoot a lot in 4K but not all the time for some basic things just to save HD space.

From what i have been reading people saying the A7S has no real SLog i think it is when shooting 4K out into the Shogun and the HD quality is not very good compared to the NX1 HD and the GH4 is not as clean as the NX1 or as detailed of a image and the HD quality it not so good on it compared to the NX1. I think at this point in time we are are the best they can be in this price range but it will get a lot better in the next version of each camera. So what lens do you want to invest in and body. The A7S has no 4k inside recording so add on another 2k and your at $4500 just for the both and 4K recording thats to much for a camera like that. The GH4 i hate the crop size of that not for me so the NX1 is the winner for me and the lens are ok and more should come but use any with a adapter in manual focus.

I hope i do not see the exposure shift today as that would leave me with not wanting any of the 3 cameras then i would send it back and just buy a cheep HD camera till the next wave of then come out. Will post back later as to how it worked out.

[Andrew Reid]

DigitalEd - what about Dynamic Range in the STILLS menu?

[Andrew Reid]

Resetting seems to help further minimize the bug. Andrew, are you doing multiple pans from bright to dark in one take? My first pan or two even seems stable, but eventually the exposure pumping returns after the third or so pan in a given continuous take.

​Multiple ones. Only happens when Smart Range is enabled.

[agolex]

Ah, darn it, I'm ordering another one. Liking this camera too much to give up already. Already sent it away today, but nvm.

I was thinking: perhaps it's also related to the Exposure/Focus lock and separation thingie (pp. 124 to 125 in the manual). Was confused when I read that first, but didn't mess with it, because I didn't have a native lens. Maybe you can try fiddling with the AEL-button? I do remember pushing it once. Although I did do a reset and everything when I was looking for a fix to the issue. Probably worth a try, though, I guess.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

Wonder why it only affects some units not others?

It's definitely Smart Range + that does the shift. Just tried it and it's a carbon copy of what you're getting. Point at light, image gains up ISO to bring the shadows up.

It's definitely turned on and the bug is that you can't seem to turn it off even when disabled in the menus. Hope they fix it quick but very strange, because you'd think a firmware bug would be on ALL the NX1s shipped so far. And you're running V1.10 right?

​Yes, the first thing I did when I got the NX1 was to update. Newest firmware and lens firmware.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

DigitalEd, are you happy with the dynamic range of the NX1 for video? What turned me off the most was when I put the NX1 besides the Gh2(hacked) and to my eyes the NX1 is clipping before my gh2.

And I have been looking at Philip Bloom, Andrew Reid and others post A7s clips and I love what they are getting with that camera. I wouldn't get the shogun, 4K is light years ahead for the icelandic market(the government owned station here, like BBC in Britain, is still broadcasting in SD! Only selected shows on HD(720p) on special channel.  I don't need 4K, but I wouldnt say no to a nice camera that shoots 4K internally, as I was thinking with the NX1, My web computer game program is SD on the webpage that hosts it, but we release HD versions on youtube.

And for bigger projects with budget, I rent cameras(C300, Red Epic, Alexa etc.)

You guys think I'm doing a mistake? I think I want the more cinematic character of the A7s.

Please if you guys have any opinions of the matter please feel free to tell me. You can even call me an idiot if you think it's relevant to my returning of the NX1, I wont get offended

P.S. Peace and love guys, great forum and great forum guests.

[DigitalEd]

I have Dynamic Range off.

Just got back have a lot of editing to do.. shot in 4 different locations all hand held very bright F16 sunny day out but i am using a ND filter to knock it down.

Have not looked back at all the footage yet but shooting using the view finder only i did not see the problem at all. I shoot everything in manual and manual focus as well uing the focus peeking to help me focus.

I shot some 4K then a lot of HD to make it more easy to edit for this test, Also shot some good slow mo we found a beach area with a lot of birds in one area i have in slow mo 120 looks good on the screen playback i Shot on into sunset.

Did some good DOF video shots playing with manual focus from one item to the next. Using the ND filter i tried to keep everything as much as i could at F2 and F2.8.

I wish i had a zoom i could of got some amazing shots today but this place is just 20 min from the place we are staying at right now so i will be back.

A ? will focus peaking work on any lens like a Nikon with adapter.. i am thinking no and that will suck as the viewfinder and screen to me is just not as sharp as a real viewfinder for manual focusing.

[DigitalEd]

I am maybe not the best one to ask on that as i tend to shift my exposure to make the subject more exposed best and blowing out the background some i am 100% ok with that been doing it with photography for years. But as much as i have shot outside with the NX1 on sunny days i am not seeing any dynamic range problem that would bother me or most people watching the video

For me i am not doing any big budget anything right now. I am using the NX1 as a way for me to get back into it i did video for a long time shooting and producing many local and regain TV shows then got out of it and moved 100% into photography I am and now just getting back into video and plan to work on more TV shows once i feel i am ready.

 

DigitalEd, are you happy with the dynamic range of the NX1 for video? What turned me off the most was when I put the NX1 besides the Gh2(hacked) and to my eyes the NX1 is clipping before my gh2.

And I have been looking at Philip Bloom, Andrew Reid and others post A7s clips and I love what they are getting with that camera. I wouldn't get the shogun, 4K is light years ahead for the icelandic market(the government owned station here, like BBC in Britain, is still broadcasting in SD! Only selected shows on HD(720p) on special channel.  I don't need 4K, but I wouldnt say no to a nice camera that shoots 4K internally, as I was thinking with the NX1, My web computer game program is SD on the webpage that hosts it, but we release HD versions on youtube.

And for bigger projects with budget, I rent cameras(C300, Red Epic, Alexa etc.)

You guys think I'm doing a mistake? I think I want the more cinematic character of the A7s.

Please if you guys have any opinions of the matter please feel free to tell me. You can even call me an idiot if you think it's relevant to my returning of the NX1, I wont get offended

P.S. Peace and love guys, great forum and great forum guests.

​

[Andrew Reid]

DigitalEd. What is a quote of Ivar there and what is you? Can you edit it to make it clearer?

[Andrew Reid]

will focus peaking work on any lens like a Nikon with adapter.. i am thinking no and that will suck as the viewfinder and screen to me is just not as sharp as a real viewfinder for manual focusing.

Peaking does work with any lens. The EVF is better for MF as it shows you the actual depth of field. An optical viewfinder is usually F2.8 max.

[Brian Luce]

I too have a few concerns about the DR, I have an unhacked GH2 (a cam not known for great DR) and will try and do a comparison. 

I already know that the NX1 has slight aliasing issues compared to gh2. I test it informally. But am confident. 

Vitaliy says if the exposure drift issue is legit, firmware easily fixes. 

[Andrew Reid]

When a camera like the GH2 or NX1 lacks a flat image profile or LOG gamma, people tend to measure the usable dynamic range from the Rec.709 punchy image it delivers.

They shoot a dynamic range test chart and the camera crushes the blacks like it's supposed to, then they go "oh, it lacks dynamic range!"

It's such a bad way to test.

In reality, LOG is there to be graded. Only once you grade it for acceptable colour and contrast can you see how much dynamic range you have left over. That's the usable dynamic range.

The NX1 has no slight aliasing issues compared to the GH2. The GH2 has much more aliasing at 1:1 in the image and it only has at best around 1 quarter of the detail of the NX1's 4K!

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

I have been fiddling more with the menu. I never thought of trying A,S and P dial mode and then enable video  

Well there's a reason for that, you don't have full control of shutter speed, ISO, fstop. Diffrent for each mode ofcourse. I would never shoot with these modes.

But.....the iso shifting is not happening in these modes, yes the camera adjusts itself because something is on auto in these modes, but here it behaves like I would expect it to.

Then I go back to manual on the dial. Check if SmartRange+ is off in both photo and video menu. Set metering to center, and voila.....the shifting stops. Wow this is weird. But tells me this is definitely a bug and can be fixed with firmware......right? 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Yes does seem like a bug in firmware.

Can anyone repeat Ivar's fix?

Thanks for noting it down, might really help the others out.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

And another thing. I think the bug was clouding my judgement about the dynamic range, maybe, I don't know as I have not done any real test. Just judging with my eyes still, need to find time to shoot some charts before I send the NX1 back, working alot these days.

It still has time to redeem itself in my eyes(B&H gave us december customers longer return period)

But I think I was right about this being a bug. Some people(not here, on facebook) have been giving me shit because of me not wanting to accept this to be normal behaviour of the sensor and bla bla bla.

[Brian Luce]

When a camera like the GH2 or NX1 lacks a flat image profile or LOG gamma, people tend to measure the usable dynamic range from the Rec.709 punchy image it delivers.

They shoot a dynamic range test chart and the camera crushes the blacks like it's supposed to, then they go "oh, it lacks dynamic range!"

It's such a bad way to test.

In reality, LOG is there to be graded. Only once you grade it for acceptable colour and contrast can you see how much dynamic range you have left over. That's the usable dynamic range.

The NX1 has no slight aliasing issues compared to the GH2. The GH2 has much more aliasing at 1:1 in the image and it only has at best around 1 quarter of the detail of the NX1's 4K!

​Okay, I'm not techy enough to do a proper DR test. However, I'll try and post my footage of the GH2/NX1 aliasing comparison. I used comparable settings and glass and clearly the NX1 produced slight aliasing on some air vents and hepa filters inside a gym and the GH2 didn't.  So in at least that real world environment, the GH2 got the edge in aliasing control, however I'm not concerned with NX1 aliasing issues, the problem is nominal IMO. 

Ivar, yes, I hate those P and S setting, the GH2 had even more. That's one of things I like about the nx1 is the simpler dial. 

 

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

Well guess what. Bug back again and I can't get rid of it like I did just a few hours ago.

Jeez, maybe I'm just going crazy. 

[DigitalEd]

DigitalEd. What is a quote of Ivar there and what is you? Can you edit it to make it clearer?

​I do not understand your ?

I am in Spring Hill Florida right now till the end of Feb.. was over by Destin Fl for Dec.

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I seem to be having a problem editing the NX1 HD files.. They will not load into Edius that i just ordered and paid for i am using the demo right now and love how it handled the 4K converted to Prores files this is the first time i shot non 4K HD.. This would be a nightmarr if i have to cenver all the HD files to.

They are all MP4 files.

I watched back the footage with a player and no exposure shift problems at all.

 

Here is one of the files right from the camera uploaded to vimeo.... it seems to lost a lot of the quality in the upload.