noa Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I think the confusing part is not all owners see it as an issue and tell they don't have a problem. Maybe it it's less of a problem in combination with certain lenses which might also explain why some don't have the issue or maybe it happens in specific circumstances some people have not been shooting in. Lot's of variables but all I have seen so far in user vids is a drifting exposure. That should be Samsungs first priority before even adding any new features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve M. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I don't see any drifting in Andrew's vid's. He even stated he couldn't reproduce the shifting, but then tweaked a few settings and pretty much replicated it. However certain users, despite turning off everything he suggested, still have the drift. Yes, he is using a Nikon adapter for a Zeiss lens, so is that the difference, who knows. Although he stated he didn't have that problem with the Samsung 30mm pancake. I don't think he would over-look this as a non-issue. With that being said, I think it is an issue, but I don't think every NX1 has it, or at least a lot of the footage I've looked at, I certainly don't see it, and the footage is high contrast stuff. I don't know, it something no one can put there finger on, so like I said before, it's up to Samsung to remedy the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Got my NX1 yesterday and have only had time to play with it for a couple of hours after updating the firmware. Exposure drift is clearly a problem in certain situations and i hope that Samsung will fix this asap. This is shot with the 30mm pancake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalEd Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Maybe its me but i do not see this as being a exposure drift problem at all. You are taking a item from a low light area into a high bright area the duck is then going to be more bright from the light hitting it more. Looking at what ever is the bottom right area the gray area you see almost no change if this was a exposure shift that would bhe changing to and its not only the bright area is changing as more light is let into the lens would this not be the expected result?As you move the duck up even the ducks head lights up from so much light hitting it this is all with in the range of what you have the camera set to.Even with a camera set to Manual everything on a dark area if you then bring in bright light the area will show as brighter up to the point the camera Manual setting can handle it then if its to bright for the camera to handle it will bloom the light from the sensor as it gets past the point of the what the camera can handle based on your manual camera settings.Your video also show it as a very smooth transition not the jump like others have reported.I think it comes down to do not point the camera with settings for low light into bright light as you do not have the camera set to handle that much light you need to find a middle ground or us lighting for the darker area to brighten it up to what the bright area is to make a good shot so they are balanced out right. I do not understand why anyone would expect the camera to preform well in this wide of a light change with out changing the cameras setting.If you manual expose the camera for a dim lit area then that is what the camera is set for its not going to look right when pointed to a bright area unless you change the cameras settings.I can not wrap my head around this thinking You expose the camera in manual for lest say a 50 of a second at f2.8 and iso 200 and then point the camera at something that is a exposed for a 50 of a second F16 and iso 200 and expect the camera to handle it... That nuts its going to bloom and show a brighter image you do not have it exposed for it handle that bright area.Do it the other way around... Expose manual for the bright area then pan to the dark area and light it up with light to match the bright area and then you will have the right image with the right exposure all looking right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalEd Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Wanted to ad something might make sense to someone. You are shooting video with a DSLR it works just like shooting photos as far as how exposure works.Take some photos of the same test and you will see the same results if the camera is manual exposed for the darker area and you take a photo it will look right then take a photo as you point into the brighter area and the image will no longer be exposed right so you photos will have a blown out background that is just how camera and exposure work.If i am shooting someone sitting in front of a bright lit window with sun coming it i have 4 things i can do to get the photo.1 the best choice is to ask then to move to a better location to get a better image. I have no problem doing this.2 expose for the subject the people and take the shot and the background will be over exposed all white but i will get the shot of them the subject exposed right.3 Expose for the brightness coming in and i will have a very bad photo of them that is under exposed4 expose for the bright light coming in and use flash to fill in the same amount of light as the background so the subject is exposed the same as the background making for the beast looking photo as both the subject and background are both exposed right. This take more work but produces the best image.It works the same way with a video camera you can not expect the camera to handle a bright exposure beyond what you have the camera set to.Pick one or the other or use fill in light to match the look and exposure or move the subject to a better to control area to shoot in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Maybe its me but i do not see this as being a exposure drift problem at all...Thanks for the long response Ed. It might very well be a case of "you see what you want to see" I've heard so many reports about exposure drift and because of that i instantly started looking for it and maybe mistakenly branded normal camera behavior as a bug. I'm not a professional after all. The NX1 is not my only camera so if i have time tomorrow i will do some comparisons to find out for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve M. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I'll have to admit, you do have a point, DigitalEd. I think the only way to answer that, well maybe not the only way, but a way, is to have someone post a video shot from a GH4, or Sony, Canon, whatever, similar scenario, and compare the two. If we see something completely different in the way said camera handles the exposure, then we can determine if indeed the NX1 has a shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalEd Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Loading in some footage now i shot testing more and playing with my new 100x300 F4 lens.What i found is shooting at 50 of a second for video at ISO 100 and F4 i could exposed 100% right on a darker area but when i pan up to a bright area of water and clouds it over blows out as it should.If i try to expose for the bright water and clouds i can not do it as it is not with in the cameras range to do so with the shutter speed at 50 to 60 of a second even at iso 100 and the highest F stop the lens would go to that was not enough to drop down the amount of light coming in the camera to get a good exposure. The only way to fix this would be to use a ND filter or raise up the shutter speed so high you would get a strobe effect in the video.So in all the tests people are pointing the camera into bright light after exposing for a dark area and most likely the bright light area is brighter then the camera can handle even at the highest F stop with that low of a shutter speed. At that point the camera sensor is over loaded and blooms out. If it is with in the range of the F stop the camera is not set to that so it will still bloom out as more light is added at some point the camera sensor is over loaded just like if you look into the sun and see dots your eyes can not take looking right into the sun on a bright day your eyes over load so do camera sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve M. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Makes sense to me! So, let me ask you this, if you were to expose on say a candle, and then pan over off that candle to a darker part of the scene, would that camera shift exposure? I do hear what you're saying, most users are shooting a high contrast sunlit scene, however, I have seen some outdoor NX1 shots of a not so high contrast scene and the video was definitely shifting. Now, that may well be the operator had a setting incorrect, so don't read to much into that, but it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stakers Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 FWIW I just got my NX1 in today and have been fiddling with it for a bit. I'm using a Helios 58mm f/2 on a Canon EF adapter and I am not seeing any of these issues on my camera. Not even the "blooming" effect that we're seeing in DigitalEd's shots. No drift, no pulse, nothing. I'm on stock firmware, so 1.01 or whatever ships on the camera. The only way I can reproduce the "blooming" effect is by enabling "Framing Guides" in the settings... When that's on I get the slow drift like in Ed's shots.Just wanted to chime in and give perhaps a glimmer of hope that not all bodies are experiencing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalEd Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Steve that is a good ? i will try it. I need to get a candle. It should just make the image darker not showing the candle.Stakers i have two NX1 bodys here and both did the drift till i changed the settings and now both work just fine. Glad yours is working good.Here is a video test i did today it shows a 60 shutter speed can be used to expose for a dark area but at 60 shutter speed it is to low and lets in to much light to be able to handle the bright light as i pan over to it. At 60 shutter i could not expose the camera for the bright light even at F32 on the lens. It would need a ND filter or the shutter speed to go up much higher to get the right exposure but then you would start seeing the video strobe effect so a ND would be the best to use when shooting in bright light.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve M. Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 DigitalEd, thank you for posting that video. Wow, this gets more confusing the more I see examples of this shift, or is it. At this point, I'm on the fence as to whether there is a shift going on or not. Some footage I see looks like there is a shift and others don't, and you have to factor into that equation, does the operator have all the settings correct. Here's my take, I just got this camera today, but don't have a lens for it yet, so my point, from most of what I've read, I am NOT going to update the software to the V1.10 and wait on the newer update to hit. My thinking, and key word is thinking, that the majority of users that may have this shift have updated to the V1.10. Now, I'm sure there are those that updated and are not experiencing this, so take that with a grain of salt. Bottom line, I'm looking forward to experimenting with this camera, and I truly think the future of this camera are very bright as it just seems Samsung is 100 percent behind making this camera a contender in the affordable 4K acquisition arena and not a totally unusable boat anchor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalEd Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Steve here is the candle test... If the camera had a real exposure shift problem i would think we would see the shift here to but it shows no shifting at all it is working as it should be. People are showing shift videos pointing to a exposure that is out of the range of what they have the camera set to so you will see some effect but its not the cameras fault if you shoot something in Manuel and then point the camera at something that is exposed 10 times over what the camera is set to.I have used both bodys i have in both versions of the firmwares and they work the same as far as the exposue so called problem no problem for me using the right camera settings. But i have been shooting photography using off camera lighting for over 15 years so i am so used to setting the camera manual its just second nature to me.As for lens do not get the Samsung 50x200 5.6 lens i got it and i am sending it back it is not very sharp at all. The best lens i have used so far are my Nikon mount lens the Samsung 16x50 2.8 lens i have is very good but my Nikon 24-120 F4 lens is still sharper. This video was shot with the Samsung 16x50 2.8 lens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That's odd that the 24-120 f4 is sharper. I have read that it's not very sharp at all, especially in comparison to the Canon 24-105. Does the VR work with your adapter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agolex Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Let's wrap this up. This is not bloom, it's the NX1 doing what it wants to do if it doesn't like the exposure. Would be OK for a cell phone, but in a camera with a fully manual video shooting mode I'd rather not have it. It doesn't do it under low exposure.Sure, might be that not every camera has this issue (though I'd really like to have one that is supposed not to have the issue in my own hands), but apparently lots of units do. So, as has been stated before, this should be a top priority for the software guys, not 1000 new features (that might work as sensationally as the histogram).Here's the comparison featuring a Nikon D800, a Blackmagic Cinema Camera and the NX1:Settings of the NX1 definitely all manual, no guides, no auto anything, I spent 5 minutes making sure of that. Firmware 1.10, though. With the other cameras I did what's usually to be done: throw 'em into manual and roll. Hope I'll manage to get the Vimeo in here, can't seem to get it to work intuitively. Sorry for the bad quality, only one HD upload per week.To everyone who doesn't see the drifting: I envy you, I'd love not to see stuff as well, life probably would be bearable at last. nougat and Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chris Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 ^^^ Yikes, that's cheap camcorder-esque. Hopefully Samsung will sort this out quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Luce Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sure, might be that not every camera has this issue (though I'd really like to have one that is supposed not to have the issue in my own hands), but apparently lots of units do. So, as has been stated before, this should be a top priority for the software guys, not 1000 new features (that might work as sensationally as the histogram). Amen. This is not acceptable performance. Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nougat Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Agolex- Thanks for your video comparison that shows that NX1's exposure drift is definitely NOT normal behavior. Others may disagree, but I think all Firmware 1.10 cameras have the drift problem, because I see it in so many other NX1 videos-- not just the drift demonstration videos. It bugs me so much that I've stopped shooting in Manual mode if I know there may be even the slightest lighting change in a scene. I shoot Shutter Priority and with Auto ISO, because if the camera is going to adjust exposure anyway, might as well have it adjust the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noa Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Let's wrap this up. This is not bloomOfcourse it's not, I have been saying this from the beginning, the example Digital Ed posted looked exactly the same, that's why I asked if he could do the same test with another camera but he didn't and he keeps repeating it's bloom, it's not. It's good that you did a clear comparison that shows the issue to finally make it clear there is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Luce Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 How can we make sure Samsung sees Agolex's excellent video comparison? I feel like we're off Samsung's radar here in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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