A7s and ENG project

[yiomo]

I recently purchased an A7s after a lot of debating between it and the GH4. I think I made the right choice from the reviews I read. Until now I have only taken some photos and waiting for a vari ND filter for the video side. Controls are not the best but it seems it will be usable for documentary projects and some fiction filmmaking. I have already shot a feature doc on a 5d and I now the dslr style format is fine for that use.

However, I recently got two offers for two different jobs and I am a bit troubled. One offer is a long term documentary project, which can possibly be filmed with the a7s and involves extensive travelling and interviews but he other is a returning TV - reportage series, with on location interviews as well as coverage. 

The reason I am troubled, is that the last job, where I worked in a similar TV reportage series, I used a Panasonic DVX100 and if I remember one thing is that it was a workhorse!!  Xlr inputs, controls, ND's, zoom, etc. A very well thought out camera. In this respect I feel a bit unconfident to embark in a project like this with the A7s.

I would like to hear your view, on whether it is possible to use the A7s in ENG style, in a TV environment, sending material to the editing pipeline etc, or it would be better to get a Panasonic AG-HPX250 or a Sony equivalent  or newer model BUT in the camcorder format.

I obviously prefer the A7s for personal projects and to my understanding the image quality cannot be compared to any camcorder line, this is why I purchased it instead of a camcorder. Just to add that there is a big chance that I will be producing this series and at the moment I cannot afford to get a camcorder in addition to the recently bought A7s.

 

Looking forward to your input.

 

 

[jcs]

For paid ENG work definitely get a workhorse ENG camcorder, especially if quickly and reliably getting the shot is most important requirement. The A7S with something like the SEL18200 lens and an external mic (perhaps with the $700 XLR attachment) could work, however it will be more fragile with more points of failure. ENG camcorder IS, AF, smooth power zoom, and pro audio is much more suited for this kind of work.

[yiomo]

I was thinking about the SEL18200 but the whole rig is still not in the eng camcorder level. I wouldn't like to do a new market research now. Is there any chance that you know the price for a respected medium budget pro camcorder? Panasonic would be ideal but then the sony would intercut perhaps better wight eh a7s.

[xenogears]

Is there any chance that you know the price for a respected medium budget pro camcorder? Panasonic would be ideal but then the sony would intercut perhaps better wight eh a7s.

​Th new Sony PXW-X70 is a very good camera with a 1" sensor ($2300) or a used Sony FS100 with a s35 sensor ($2000 or less)

[Gensnap]

I see your dilemma. I have a similar problem. I shoot Behind the scenes/EPK's for TV drama and film here in UK and have been using the Canon XF300, with all the usual attributes of a camcorder, also BBC approved. It's a very easy camera and doesn't requite any special kind of working. However, the reason I'm looking at the A7s is because it seems to me that the shallow depth of field look is what folk now want. I really can't do this with the XF300. I've stayed awake at night pondering the possibilities and have considered the C100, X7,GH4 and A7s. Now I see JVC are bringing out a changeable lens type camcorder. My issue with the A7s or any similar camera is mostly the lack of XLR's. I'm a total one man outfit so the less I have to fiddle with the better. Cut to the chase......I have not yet bought but am almost buying the A7s with the Atomos shogun, which gives me pro res recording, a super screen for focus assist and exposure and XLR input. And now I'm worried by the configuration of such a set up (I will get the cage too). I'm also concerned about which profile I can shoot in without having to go through the grading process. I'm very impressed with the Sony X70 but it just looks so "video" and folk now seem to want that film look. I wish you well in your decision, it really is not easy when money is a consideration. If you are delivering to TV the X70 has all the requirements. 4:2:2 and 10 bit @ 50mbps. good luck !

[jcs]

Shallow DOF and ENG haven't really gone together as accurate focus is much more challenging on large sensor cameras (either autofocus or manual focus). In live shots on the viewfinder of the FS700 and A7S, shots can look in focus (viewfinder + peaking), however in post they're not quite in focus. When autofocus works, it works really well (both cameras). So far autofocus hasn't worked nearly as well as with small sensor cameras. For ENG work for now it's best to stick with an ENG camera (so no FS700/FS100).

I have found that I can make A7S and even 5D3 footage look like video straight from the camera. Trying to get a film look in camera tends to run into issues with various scene colors and lighting conditions.  I have also found it's best to get accurate color from the camera, even if it looks like video (though it's important to prevent highlight clipping when possible). The best way to get the film look is in post. You can find or create a LUT that has the film look you want, which you can apply to all of your properly colored/exposed 'video look' footage which will then look filmic with one simple step in post. If you want the least work, Canon provides the best skin tones out of camera, though Sony is catching up (see FS7 compared to C300 footage online). Panasonic can also have a nice straight-from-camera look (for example GH4 with Natural profile). If you liked the look of the DVX100, check out their current cameras too.

[yiomo]

Regarding the film look I am more than covered with the A7s. Now, that filmconvert and visioncolor impulse have LUTs for slog2, it is relatively easy to grade in post. The only concern is speed and accuracy. I think a Sony PMW-200, Panasonic AG-HPX250 , AG-AC160A or similar would probably be better for what I have in mind but I am not sure that I can invest at this point. I will have to wait and see. In the meanwhile, I would be grateful if you could recommend a website with camcorder reviews.

For now, might give it a try first with the A7s... Perhaps if I am in APSC mode with a relatively closed aperture, say 5.6  it would be much easier to focus for the run and gun  FOV would be smaller sensor like) and also with a non slog2 profile I would not require much post. If the above would work well, the only problem left would be the audio. I have read good reviews of the A7s internal amp and I will make some tests with the rode lavalier mic which should be fine for talking heads straight into the camera and would definitely be better that lugging an xlr cable with me. I guess this leaves the shotgun mic for the coverage shots. Don't know.. It would make much more sense budget wise to buy the sony adapter (xlr-k2m) and only take it out of the bag when needed.. 

 

Actually, I also have the tascam dr60d that I could use for both xlr inputs but then it would not be so much run and gun anymore...

[jcs]

Regarding camcorder reviews, I would go to bhphoto and Amazon and read the reviews from actual users. Beyond that, I hear this website has the best camcorder reviews: https://www.google.com/search?q=camcorder+reviews  . I used the A7S+SEL18200 for this shoot with PP6 and auto-everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq8m2FaVL1U . Challenging low light, lots of colored lights, many different skin tones, etc. Audio was in-camera mic. Worked better than the FS700. The A7S has decent preamps, so a Rode VMP or NTG2 with battery power would work OK (I have the NTG2). The Sennheiser EW100 G3 wireless kit works great too, either with lavs or the wireless mic transmitter (works great with NTG2 with battery).

[yiomo]

  yes. the website has the best reviews. it just has too many of them.. 

Loved the IQ in your video. So clean. And all this was on auto focus? Wow. Was there any hunting, delays? Apparently the auto mode is not that bad in terms of exposure either. Need to check it out. Sound was pretty good as well, to my ears. 

I am all manual at the moment, always when doing video. The only time I did auto was back during the dvx100 camcorder period. Thinking of purchasing the 28-70 kit lens and will try the auto feature. In APSC mode it would give me a descent medium to tele range 44 -115 but lack the wide angle. I tried the auto focus with the canon 40mm pancake and it is unusable. OF course that was through an adaptor I know. Lots of hunting and it takes ages to focus. 

Are you happy with the SEL 18200 ?

 

 

[jcs]

The shortcut method to pick a camera would be to start at bhphoto, and see what they have in stock for your price range. Then read the reviews on bhphoto, and if present, on Amazon. Anything from Canon, Panasonic, or Sony will be great (I haven't used other brands- there may be more). It's a matter of features and skin tone for the price.

The full auto on the A7S with the SEL18200 is very much like a traditional camcorder, except zoom is manual. In many cases, auto focus works very well, however sometimes it focuses on the wrong object or shimmers (fast hunting). All of my camcorders from Sony, Panasonic, and Canon have auto focused much better. That said, for the example event in this thread, it worked perfectly well. Sony's auto ISO works smoothly which is important for the 18200 as it goes through the variable aperture zoom range.

I have the SEL18200 that came with the FS700 and the SELP18200 (power zoom). While I may use the SELP version for a slow power zoom shot, I haven't used it much. The SEL18200 has wider zoom/focus rings so it's easier to use. The IQ in terms of sharpness is higher than the Canon 24-105F4L on the MB adapter. Yeah, the 18200 is a good all around lens.

[The Chris]

Though it obviously won't be as robust as an ENG camcorder, there is the option of the new 28-135 cinema lens (which should be more durable than the 18-200, likely better IQ and you can shoot FF or APS-c) and the Sony add on XLR adapter if you need phantom power.  Its too bad Sony seems to have abandoned the VG line, with the A7s sensor and new codec, it would be a crankin camera.