Revenge of the Great Zacuto Shootout Part 1 - Review

[Andrew Reid]

Not sure about that - there's nothing in the colour correction shot to say it is GH2 footage, they could have cut any archive footage to it. But nice spot!

[Samuel H]

I think B is the GH2, and if that's the one you like, congrats, you can get the camera of your dreams in a tiny package and for a ridiculous price. I didn't like it, though: it looks much more "digital" than any other one.

My take:

My top 2 would be a tie between A and F: they both look great
The next 3 would be tied too: C (which looks great except for the blown-out highlights), E (which has very slight aliasing) and H (which looked slightly too digital at times)
After that would come G (somewhat soft, maybe less DR than others, some issues in the highlights)
Then a tie between I (somewhat soft, less DR than others, lots of aliasing, some noise) and B (impressively clean -except for some slight aliasing-, but looking very digital)
And finally D (horrible)

Also, I think H is EPIC, G is FS100, I is 7D, B is GH2, D is iphone

[richg101]

I liked F most.  followed by C.  I thought they spent too much time worrying about making sure not to over expose the window and not enough time making the inside look right.  as stated previously, why not bleach out the background slightly and get a bit more vibrance indoors?   

[Asa]

Erm, fairly sure that's an Alexa not F65.

[richg101]

[quote author=evil_thought2 link=topic=853.msg6218#msg6218 date=1340019050]
Another mystery solved .. I think F is F65 ...

Around 5:27 minutes into the video, we have this clip

[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5455/7393384672_c2232bfc2c_b.jpg[/img]

This matches pretty close to camera F

[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/7393384512_9a8c01d047_b.jpg[/img]

(slight differences but there are other similarities if you watch 5:27 to 5:31 part and compare it to clip F) 

I am sure camera F is F65
[/quote]

you have too much time to waste man.  go do something productive instead of spreading rumours based on unclear and unsound information. 

[johnnymossville]

The only two I wouldn't use are D and G.  G is probably the Canon, D the iPhone.  The rest look great.

[Per Lichtman]

[quote author=nielsi link=topic=853.msg6167#msg6167 date=1339896943]
I would really love to see them do a GH2 stock vs. hacked comparison. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, I just don’t see it, yet everyone is talking about it. Just this afternoon I did some more test shots myself. On tripod, all manual set, studio lighting to take away any variables and make every shot exactly identical, stock vs. 88mbit iframe. I just don’t see it. Not at 1080p, not at 200% zoom. I tried high dynamic shots, shots with movement, boosting shadows in post to see if I find more detail in the hacked version..Only if I compare 24L stock (!) to 88mbit hacked I notice the difference in grain/noise in shadows. Almost as if it has more noise reduction on it. But it doesn’t seem to affect a loss in detail (tiny printed letters in my test shot).

I guess it doesn’t really matter since I’m not shooting for the big screen anyway and only have clients who want web material. But you obviously want to get the most out of what your camera can bring and it’s frustrating to see a huge filesize increase without really seeing any visual difference. I’d love to know in which situations it makes a difference and see them explain the data.
[/quote]

Here is how close to twenty hacked (including both EOSHD options) and non-hacked settings handled being completely starved for light, not syncing to the refresh rate of a computer screen, etc. Note the upper left corner in particular as regards detail in the shadows, etc. You'll see the biggest difference between Stock 1.1 and Canis Majoris Night in this particular shot. Many of the shots have the settings called out during the audio.

http://perlichtman.com/pasdenapulse/wordpress/gh2-hack-reference/

On DVXUser, questech posted some tests of his own (with an evaluation closer to your own) but I have not had a chance to review them yet.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?274008-Why-do-we-need-a-GH3-Isn-t-the-GH2-enough-What-should-Panasonic-do-for-GH3&p=1986160574&viewfull=1#post1986160574

[richg101]

[quote author=evil_thought2 link=topic=853.msg6223#msg6223 date=1340025246]
richg .. grow up. If you like to do something useful with your time, why are you on this forum?

I gave reasons why GH2 is I. You didn't
[/quote]

I'm not the loser sitting in front of a monitor all day freeze framing the shootout like its some type of challenge.  What are you gaining from all this nonsense?    You need to grow up.  I'm on here for entertainment while I wait for an export to finish on the other computer.  You are here in between your silly little quest, eating and looking at naked ladies online..  Stop spamming the thread with your rubbishy unsubstantiated trainspotting.

[Asa]

[quote author=richg101 link=topic=853.msg6232#msg6232 date=1340038718]
[quote author=evil_thought2 link=topic=853.msg6223#msg6223 date=1340025246]
richg .. grow up. If you like to do something useful with your time, why are you on this forum?

I gave reasons why GH2 is I. You didn't
[/quote]

I'm not the loser sitting in front of a monitor all day freeze framing the shootout like its some type of challenge.  What are you gaining from all this nonsense?    You need to grow up.  I'm on here for entertainment while I wait for an export to finish on the other computer.  You are here in between your silly little quest, eating and looking at naked ladies online..  Stop spamming the thread with your rubbishy unsubstantiated trainspotting.
[/quote]No point either of you arguing, not going to change anything and it's no big deal. Chill.

[sicovdplas]

Liked A and C the most, Reckon the B is Gh2, def saw the 7D with uglyness of Moire and line skipping.

[sicovdplas]

[quote author=evil_thought2 link=topic=853.msg6218#msg6218 date=1340019050]
Another mystery solved .. I think F is F65 Or Alexa

Around 5:27 minutes into the video, we have this clip

[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8147/7393834356_f3ef693b8a_b.jpg[/img]

This matches pretty close to camera F

[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/7393384512_9a8c01d047_b.jpg[/img]

(slight differences but there are other similarities if you watch 5:27 to 5:31 part and compare it to clip F) 

I am sure camera F is F65 or Alexa
[/quote]

Nice trying to debunk everything, short notice for you, everything was shot on a Crane, these where just setup shots you've seen, not the actual takes.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Nobody else thinks they all look stupid for under exposing the room?

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=richg101 link=topic=853.msg6232#msg6232 date=1340038718]
[quote author=evil_thought2 link=topic=853.msg6223#msg6223 date=1340025246]
richg .. grow up. If you like to do something useful with your time, why are you on this forum?

I gave reasons why GH2 is I. You didn't
[/quote]

I'm not the loser sitting in front of a monitor all day freeze framing the shootout like its some type of challenge.  What are you gaining from all this nonsense?    You need to grow up.  I'm on here for entertainment while I wait for an export to finish on the other computer.  You are here in between your silly little quest, eating and looking at naked ladies online..  Stop spamming the thread with your rubbishy unsubstantiated trainspotting.
[/quote]

Richg101 - don't like the hostility. Quit it.

Good spot with the Alexa evil_thought2. All good fun.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=HurtinMinorKey link=topic=853.msg6242#msg6242 date=1340045953]
Nobody else thinks they all look stupid for under exposing the room?
[/quote]

Yes it is a bit silly to have that much light outside a huge window and such a dark room. Guess they wanted more of a dynamic range test rather than absolute realism. The highlights in the window are very revealing so I actually prefer it to be shot the way it is.

[richg101]

[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=853.msg6244#msg6244 date=1340046504]


Richg101 - don't like the hostility. Quit it.


[/quote]

That's a bit unfair IMO.  Some guy decides to ruin the impartiality of the test for everyone by going above and beyond and I'm told off for being hostile.  I'm annoyed, and rightly so, that some idiot has gone and ruined the test by removing our chance to be fully impartial.  Not one of us can now make critical judgement without this guy's trainspotting ruining the concept.  Don't you all think it might have been a nice surprise when our guessing / critical judgements were proved wrong and some of the big boys were outshone by the little boys?

Shame

[Andrew Reid]

I appreciate you're annoyed, but everyone who has seen this thread has seen episode 1 by now and made their judgement calls blind. It doesn't make any difference to me what people reveal from now on. iPhone and 7D obvious from the start, and now is the Alexa. Waiting a month for the results is ridiculous. It will be all over the web by then. This guy has been pretty creative in spotting the clues. After seeing episode 1, I immediately wanted to know the results. The guys at the official screenings got them within 15 minutes. Nothing wrong with that. So what is wrong with his posts about the GH2 colourist and Alexa? Fair play, and well spotted.

Now everyone who cares has had a chance to watch episode 1 (if they don't by then, and they're looking for the results, obviously they are not that interested in the first place) the results are fair game.

Zacuto made a mistake having this 1 month gap. I understand the logic behind it - the amount of investment which has gone into this is too large for them to just release it all at once, they want to sustain the interest over a longer period of time - but 3 months? Bit silly really.

[Astro]

Hi...Yeah I agree with Andrew.
I have kinda made my decisions...I dont mind a bit of detective work...anyway hopefully we will get the results soon.

I have had a few more looks at this shootout here and there in 1080P and I read earlier someone saying that B has a digital look that they did not like (I even said it myself on Personal View)
BUT on second and third looks I now feel its one of the best, it is actually the cleanest and most detailed image, look at the guys green shirt, the close up of the girls hair, the carpet.

What makes it look digital is the hi contrast window and the stark difference between that and when the men walk in front of that well lit window.
Lets face it, most people would not film that scenario, I would look for slightly less extremes...now take that away and the rest of the picture is really good. (my opinion only of course)
I dont know if its the Gh2..it probably isn't...but its a good camera whatever it is.
I would pick that along with H (so B and H)
Just my 2 cents
Cheers

[gethin]

I Think B looks a bit dodgy because its overlit.  The guy in green is too light and too front lit.

[Astro]

I dont think Camera I is the GH2...mainly because the models black dress is not lit up that much.
I took some still caps of each and had a quick look, I agree that the green shirt guy is too well lit in the B camera, but overall that camera captures a lot of detail...for whatever reason.
Its very apparent in the still caps...I went frame by frame until each one was close to the exact same position and the cleanest frame appeared ...and B had the most detail in general of all the caps fro all the cameras.
I am not saying it was the best, just that it had the most detail..there was a certain smearing of detail in some of the others (again...not saying its a bad thing, just pointing it out).
Some of the Cameras had certain parts of the room lit more than others ...for example A, C, F, H and I had the left corner well lit whereas in B and E it was barely lit...so some cameras captured more detail in that area...depending on lighting.
Overall tho..I personally still like H...just my taste I guess, but it looks great overall.

[mattbatt]

Hi guys, first post glad to be part of this forum even though I'm a Canon guy, I totally respect the GH2 for sharpness and price point.

For me, I watched the comparisons twice, then did two screen shots per test (one when the door first opens, then of the close up couple when girl looks to the right). Then, I took a break, watched 5 more times, then took a day off. Came back to it.

Let me just say that my original choices changed somewhat and I began to notice more subtly in the scene after viewing them so much. But then I tried to view them quickly as well. At first I did not like "A" at all; it looked harsh and almost metallic. "H" was so different, it looked to be color graded by a different person altogether and contains a lot of magenta, so I passed over it. But I kept coming back to it. "H" continues to draw me in, it is so sharp, contains so much color, DR and the flesh tones pop. H became top for me. I'm guessing F65.

My screens are HP calibrated. People posting their screenshots - Andrew even yours of "H" - look darker online than when I view the short, but hopefully we are seeing the short in somewhat similar fashion (this shows that for web viewing and depending on monitor calibration, people may see things completely differently).

Anyway, my conclusion is I like "H, F, C and A" in that order. I'll tell you why but a few things before to be discussed.

First, "B" has been getting a lot of attention. By now, many people think it is the GH2 and over at nofilmschool on their poll, it comes in either #1 or #2 for best looking, which surprises me.

For me, "B" stood out at first glance because no one was in shadow as much - in other words, "B" has a ton more lights than the other scenes. But, the more I looked, the more "set up" it felt - "B" looks like a soap set. Now, nothing is wrong per-se with that, but for me, I started to notice that the lighting was a dead give away for low dynamic range.

The big tell is to look at that left front lamp stand. Look inside of it before the camera cranes down and look at the color of the shade from the middle to edges (top and sides). Only a few camera's truly rendered detail in the top and COLOR (pink, fleshy, gradation) from the center out on the shade. "B" was completely grey as was "D". "D" is definitely the iphone (just dark, soft, no DOF, artifacts in motion.)

Now "G" has some color in the shade but it is over-saturated and pushed because "G" just fell apart. "G" is moire hell (background window far rt before door opens shimmers, legs on table, light stand) and is the 7D hands down. "G" is brighter inside than "D" but that background starts to glow by the time the couple sits down. "G" is truly sad, soft and frustrating. But, they did get that shade a little pinkish and Canon does do good skin tone.

Which is almost why I think that "I" could be the C300, though it was on my 3 worst list. Just unflattering.

"B, G and I" all contain some aliasing and/or moire - "B and I" alias on the window grids slightly.

"H" is one of the sharpest - the sharpest - images and some think it must be the C300 because of that (4k internal down-sampled perfectly to 1080p). I'm guessing it is the F65 just because "H" is so different. It reminds me of film, technicolor process for sure, skin pops, there is contrast and DR. That wood paneling on the left in the back just looks so crisp and lively.

I'm pretty sure "F" is Alexa with a great smooth ton, range and warm color all around. It looks natural and not set-up. Alexa is great, most TV shows are now done on it. But Alexa is not as good as film. Watch 'Criminal Minds' on film and then their newer shows on Alexa, the actors faces look flatter, more grey. Film pops skin tons a lot AND keeps DR. Alexa did not do that good on the TV show "V" as well, it was digital looking.

Anyway, "H" was most filmic to me.

If "H" is the GH2 or C300 I will be really, really surprised.

I'm guessing "C" is RED as well but it suffered from yellows in the highlights and was a bit soft, 4 or 5k downresed not properly could do that.

What I am really looking forward to is each camera filming the scene with the standard lighting set up. Again, which ever the F65 ends up being, we all will have to admire the fact that no more lights were used for it.