What's the best 1080P cam?

[Hitfabryk]

What's the best 1080P cam, looking for filmic look, easy workflow with a mac, max around 2500,- euro (less is no problem) although it's nice it doesn't have to be a low light king.

Thanks for any input.

[Jimmy]

Maybe BMPC shooting to ProRes. Still one of the nicest images i've ever shot

[M Carter]

Maybe BMPC shooting to ProRes. Still one of the nicest images i've ever shot

​If you're cool with a tiny sensor, no really wide glass, needing a speedbooster, and if you never need 60p slow motion - for starters.

This is the kind of question that usually isn't taken very seriously... the OP has a lot of research to do. Sensor size, frame rates, codec... you need to define what a "filmic" look means to you, and if that $2500 covers lenses, batteries, loupes, monitors, recorders, if you need decent audio, and on and on.

The only thing you'll find out definitively: one man's best is another man's joke.

[Jimmy]

4/3 is hardly a tiny sensor, but I get your point about everything that goes with a camera.

For pure image quality though, with an easy workflow for Mac, it is a good choice.

[fuzzynormal]

And here we go again. 

[fuzzynormal]

My biggest peeve with this sort of question (and it's a legitimate question, I'm not bashing the OP) is the phrase "filmic."  You can make just about any camera look "videoish" or look "filmic."  It's not really the camera that does it.

You see my little user icon there?  It's a GM1 with a old Pentax a110 25mm lens on it.  I shot a short film on it.  In a film festival in which it was screened a lot of the positive comments were how the short looked very "filmic" compared to other entires.  I did a pretty aggressive color grade too.  (considering how flimsy the narrative was, the aesthetics were the only positive reviews I got!)

The other cameras used in the same screening block were the Canon 1Dc, a RED, and a  FS100.  All great cameras.

Point is, it's what you do with your camera and how you apply your knowledge, skills, and craft (aka: how it's lit) that ultimately makes the difference.  You can't just buy a piece of gear and think "okay, that tick box is checked, my stuff will look like a movie now."

That said, BM.  Best dynamic range.  DOF is over rated and over used nowadays.

[Cinegain]

Wait for the OM-D E-M2 since you like the E-M1 so much?

Downsampled 4K makes for pretty sweet 1080p, so the GH4 and NX1 are pretty great and allow for some flexible use of 4K -> 1080p as well. Not sure about the child diseases plaguing the NX1 though. And personally prefer the M43-mount over the NX-one. There's a bigger line-up of native lenses and more flexibility for adding 'foreign' glass.

If you want that fullframe magic... it kind of depends what lenses you've already got that could cover a fullframe sensor. The A7S is nice, or perhaps even the A7II? The 5DmkIII with ML RAW is still an awesome choice, but: budget and not the most practical solution. I'd personally take a look at the Nikon D750... but again, that would depend a bit on lenses already availlable and budget. The camera body with one native lens would set you back considerably and I bet you want some more glass to go with it.

I've got my hands on the D5300 now. I really like the organic look and handling of colors, but as a hybrid shooter used to EVFs, I do miss an EVF and working in liveview with this particular camera takes its toll when shooting pictures, since the mirror wants to flip back down allowing for Phase AF, just to flip it back up again for exposure (does this in MF as well), making even quick snapshots with fast shuttertime seem like you're taking long exposures in comparison with shooting a mirrorless camera (although I can set up everything in LV first and then go out of it when shooting). But it's pretty solid for shooting 1080p50. The A6000 and A5100 seem nice enough as well, being APS-C mirrorless altenatives to the D5300, with the A6000 benefiting of sporting an EVF and the A5100 the XAVC S codec.

Don't you happen know someone with a GH4 and perhaps a focal reducer/lens turbo/speedbooster? You should try to borrow or rent one, especially if you already have some glass that won't work on bigger sensors. You can get native lenses with T0.95 should you care to get a cinematic shallow depth of field or get some non-native lenses with a focal reducer/lens turbo/speedbooster. The files are also pretty workflow friendly. You might not want to go 4K now, but it will always be there should you decide otherwise and again, 4K makes for nice use of 1080p. If low light is not a that big of factor, the GH4 seems like a solid contender I'd say.

[Hitfabryk]

4/3 is hardly a tiny sensor, but I get your point about everything that goes with a camera.

For pure image quality though, with an easy workflow for Mac, it is a good choice.

​Thanks Jimmy (and M Carter) I do have some nice M43 lenses (14, 25, 45) and some old good FD glass (28, 35,55) with a RJ FD-M43 speed booster.

I don't need audio, would like to have different frame rates..and do not have a solid opinion about sensor size..some time's I see FF and I like it, but I also have seen 

nice things from smaller sensors.

[Hitfabryk]

My biggest peeve with this sort of question (and it's a legitimate question, I'm not bashing the OP) is the phrase "filmic."  You can make just about any camera look "videoish" or look "filmic."  It's not really the camera that does it.

You see my little user icon there?  It's a GM1 with a old Pentax a110 25mm lens on it.  I shot a short film on it.  In a film festival in which it was screened a lot of the positive comments were how the short looked very "filmic" compared to other entires.  I did a pretty aggressive color grade too.  (considering how flimsy the narrative was, the aesthetics were the only positive reviews I got!)

The other cameras used in the same screening block were the Canon 1Dc, a RED, and a  FS100.  All great cameras.

Point is, it's what you do with your camera and how you apply your knowledge, skills, and craft (aka: how it's lit) that ultimately makes the difference.  You can't just buy a piece of gear and think "okay, that tick box is checked, my stuff will look like a movie now."

That said, BM.  Best dynamic range.  DOF is over rated and over used nowadays.

​You are so right..!!maybe it's because now I have to deal with the 30fps..and that I bring that up.

I would love to see you're GM1 movie, is it on vimeo?

Thanks

[fuzzynormal]

Yeah, I've been putting off uploading the thing, but I'll place it online and add a link.

Ultimately I'm of the opinion that naturalistic lighting matters a lot --and how you take advantage of that light with your selection of lenses.  In my short film, the idea was that most of the movie shots are memories from the "unreliable narrators" so the images are deliberately pushed pretty hard to not look realistic.  Colors are exaggerated and stylized.  All decisions that add to the "filmic" look. 

But the camera body?  Kind of the least of the worries to consider, IMHO.  Just about any camera made in the past few years will do the job.

[Hitfabryk]

Wait for the OM-D E-M2 since you like the E-M1 so much?

Downsampled 4K makes for pretty sweet 1080p, so the GH4 and NX1 are pretty great and allow for some flexible use of 4K -> 1080p as well. Not sure about the child diseases plaguing the NX1 though. And personally prefer the M43-mount over the NX-one. There's a bigger line-up of native lenses and more flexibility for adding 'foreign' glass.

If you want that fullframe magic... it kind of depends what lenses you've already got that could cover a fullframe sensor. The A7S is nice, or perhaps even the A7II? The 5DmkIII with ML RAW is still an awesome choice, but: budget and not the most practical solution. I'd personally take a look at the Nikon D750... but again, that would depend a bit on lenses already availlable and budget. The camera body with one native lens would set you back considerably and I bet you want some more glass to go with it.

I've got my hands on the D5300 now. I really like the organic look and handling of colors, but as a hybrid shooter used to EVFs, I do miss an EVF and working in liveview with this particular camera takes its toll when shooting pictures, since the mirror wants to flip back down allowing for Phase AF, just to flip it back up again for exposure (does this in MF as well), making even quick snapshots with fast shuttertime seem like you're taking long exposures in comparison with shooting a mirrorless camera (although I can set up everything in LV first and then go out of it when shooting). But it's pretty solid for shooting 1080p50. The A6000 and A5100 seem nice enough as well, being APS-C mirrorless altenatives to the D5300, with the A6000 benefiting of sporting an EVF and the A5100 the XAVC S codec.

Don't you happen know someone with a GH4 and perhaps a focal reducer/lens turbo/speedbooster? You should try to borrow or rent one, especially if you already have some glass that won't work on bigger sensors. You can get native lenses with T0.95 should you care to get a cinematic shallow depth of field or get some non-native lenses with a focal reducer/lens turbo/speedbooster. The files are also pretty workflow friendly. You might not want to go 4K now, but it will always be there should you decide otherwise and again, 4K makes for nice use of 1080p. If low light is not a that big of factor, the GH4 seems like a solid contender I'd say.

​Hello Cinegain,

Thanks for the reply, waiting for the EM2 will take to long.. maybe the new EM5mark2 will bring also some new film options like 24p and 25p to the EM1 and maybe even 50/60?

That would be nice..but probably will not happen. The NX1 I did return mostly  because of the H265 and also the the other little, but unacceptable problems like exposure drift..

Maybe I want that FF magic? I could  use my FD glass (28, 35 and 55) with a cheap adapter..I already got one (Fotga FD to NEX) an maybe later buy 1 sony lens..From what I have seen from the A72 I did not like so much..but I could take another look. The Nikon way..mmm no I don't think so because I have to start all over with the glass.

I tried the GH4, I have glass for it, but somehow I did not like it so much, it did the job and for the money, it's great.. also the 96fps (nice) and yes again, maybe there is that full frame sensor that's 'calling' me.. 

If I could try or rent one but that's not so easy...

[Hitfabryk]

Yeah, I've been putting off uploading the thing, but I'll place it online and add a link.

Ultimately I'm of the opinion that naturalistic lighting matters most.

​Would be great, I would like to see that. And by the way..I already have a GM1 and a EM1 and in my live band studio registrations the can do a nice job, GM1 I use as 

second cam on top of the drums, or a close up of a singer and the EM1 moves in the hand or dolly as first cam..I was thinking that the EM1 also can become second cam and that i need/want a new first cam..And like I mentioned to Cinegain a GH4 may would be wise but I would like to have something extra and what that is ..mmm that's maybe a Sony A7S for the FF or a Black Magic for the colours..which black magic I don't know.I do have glass for the Black magic M43 mounts and some old FD for the sony..

[andrgl]

BMCC or 5D3 raw.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

I found this little video: http://vimeo.com/116044343

A7s, Canon 24-105 EF, Metabones Adapter(Not Speedbooster). Shot with Autumn Leaves creative style, contrast -3, sat 0, sharpness -3. Dynamic Range Optimization (DRO) Level 4. Some CC done, he does not specify how or with what.

What a great little piece, I like what this guy does with the A7s.

 

[Hitfabryk]

I found this little video: http://vimeo.com/116044343

A7s, Canon 24-105 EF, Metabones Adapter(Not Speedbooster). Shot with Autumn Leaves creative style, contrast -3, sat 0, sharpness -3. Dynamic Range Optimization (DRO) Level 4. Some CC done, he does not specify how or with what.

What a great little piece, I like what this guy does with the A7s.

 

​That's so funny Ivar, I know you sent you're NX1 back, so did I.. and we are looking at the same footage from the A7s, I also like a lot what he does. Did you already decide?

BMCC or 5D3 raw.

Thanks,

​5D3 raw.I think not an easy workflow, and that's what I need..The BMCC could be interesting, I think it's also available with a M43 mount (2.3 crop factor?) But the media it writes on.. .mmm I don't know. Battery life, screen refelections..although I will use it most inside. But you do not mention the A7S, why? Thanks.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

​That's so funny Ivar, I know you sent you're NX1 back, so did I.. and we are looking at the same footage from the A7s, I also like a lot what he does. Did you already decide?

 that is funny.

​Yes I have. The A7s has arrived but not the lens(Sony FE 24-70 f4). Will get it around the end of this month. The NX1 just was not for me, I guess it was an impulse buy. I have been thinking/reading/looking at footage about/shot with the A7s for some time. I had a small hope that the NX1 would fulfill my needs cause the price on that camera is so sexy.

But it makes more sense for me to go the Sony path. Cause there is another cam on the market with a sexy price: Sony Fs7. And I can get good support from Sony rep's here(Iceland). And those two make a very sexy combo(I think! Have not shot with these cam's yet)

 

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

I am not saying the Fs7 and the......Sony rep's on Iceland are sexy! But the A7s and the Fs7(just so there's no misunderstanding) hahaha

[Damphousse]

Point is, it's what you do with your camera and how you apply your knowledge, skills, and craft (aka: how it's lit) that ultimately makes the difference.

​That is simply not true.  Some cameras get you the "filmic" look a lot easier than other cameras.  That doesn't mean it is guaranteed.  It's all probability.

Other things in the chain can affect the output but when you are doing a scientific analysis you hold those variables steady.  We go round and round on these internet forums because people don't know how to do scientific analysis.

I get what you are saying about "magic bullets."  Buying a more "filmic" camera won't guarantee you more filmic results.

[peterwhite]

you can go to the latest Samsung NX 1 for new h.265/hevc codec shooting . 

[Wulf]

I found this little video: http://vimeo.com/116044343

A7s, Canon 24-105 EF, Metabones Adapter(Not Speedbooster). Shot with Autumn Leaves creative style, contrast -3, sat 0, sharpness -3. Dynamic Range Optimization (DRO) Level 4. Some CC done, he does not specify how or with what.

What a great little piece, I like what this guy does with the A7s.

 

​Interesting, because his name is often involved as an example what you achieve with this or that cam, no matter which brand or forum. :-)

Just saying (and keep the good stuff comin', Brandon)