Canon 1D C to get $4000 price drop February 1st

[sam]

Simon needs to remember that everyone has different tastes and opinions on their camera choice.​

Andrew, I own the 1dc and do low end weddings once in a while so Simons undiplomatic posts caught my eye.  I wanted to see what shaped his opinion. I value your opinion more than anyone else's.  Just check my ip and see if anyone has visited your site more over the years.  How's that for brown nosing ?  

[Andrew Reid]

Simon's cat (cockney rhyming slang) slams colour science for looking 'too nice', can't take comments like that seriously at all.

Filmmaking is an art!

[Andrew Reid]

Just check my ip and see if anyone has visited your site more over the years.  How's that for brown nosing ?  

How's that? It's horrible. Please stop it.

[sam]

Andrew you're the best

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

​Simon,You're actually proud of this work?
There are so many wrong things in it, I don't know where to start even.
Bad, weird and overly saturated colors that don't match from cut to cut, wayyy too contrasty in many shots; generally bad editing and tasteless slow-motion. I just cannot believe why you chose this work to demonstrate your superior taste in color science and cameras, its beyond me.

​It looks great. Lets see your better work.

I enjoy criticsm if it includes how to fix the errors, but without that it's just pure negativity and internet piss matches. 

Stop negativity. 

Be polite.

[Germy1979]

Well..  That escalated quickly.  

 

Lol.  I miss these threads..  They can go from zero to gearslutz in 2.1 sec.  Cracks me up..  There's always that "one guy".  

This site rules.  Personally it's the only one that's ever posted anything consistently relevant to what I want to know.  Hearing how Roger Deakins  likes his eggs is nice on the other sites, but not very interesting.

[sam]

 Earlier Andrew mentioned we should have more females on this forum.  There is something to that.  On another forum I used my wifes name and its a whole different deal. I write the same but everyone act's humane.  Unfortunately, (or fortunately depending on your view) the drama that Andrew helps create is what attracts views.  (just check the threads with hefty view counts)  I agree Germy1979, these threads are entertaining and where else will you get called out by a sites owner so quickly!  I appreciate Ebrahim Saadawi trying to police, but I also notice it tends to lump those who are trying to have an honest discussion with those like Trias.  (the threads a week or so ago involvinving JCS and Andrew comes to mind). JCS Is a perfect example of someone who handles himself with diplomacy and a level head on every thread. (There I go brown nosing again as Andrew calls it!)

[Scott Richard Gerst-privé]

Just my 2 cents- do not have an A7S although I am intrigued and would certainly like to try it- 

using 1Dc now since it came out, and had shot with a Scarlet a few times.

the 1Dc is just it's own animal.

I knew nothing- zilch- about making moving pictures (pretty obvious if you look at my technical issues).

I needed a camera that worked with existing glass, could also shoot fashion/ sports/ studio / tolerate weather and used my CF cards.

I cringed at the price but had a lot of Canon glass already.

And I must say: arriving a 10 pm with one or two street lamps, no crew, an actor, a rough concept, and 1 hour:  being able to shoot 28000 ISO for B&W (lower for clean color . . .) simply pulling focus before the take (and once in a blue moon pulling during- what am I thinking . . . ha)- shooting 4K handheld and stabilizing in post to scale to 1080 . . .

I have been able to come up with cool footage for a beginner.  

I watch what Andrew says and I read every review - and then used some equipment, and came to the conclusion that that the 1Dc was "right" for me for a lot of reasons.

But there is simple one thing that is tough to explain where I think the 1Dc may excel compared to the other sub $8k cameras now in 4K (although I am going by Scarlet, prior 5D MkIII and online vimeo's of the newer smaller):

The Picture.

Filmic compared to others. The digital grain on the sensor looks almost organic.  Not exactly like film- but it's own sort of specialness.

And when it comes to cameras, I care about picture more than anything else.  More than anything. (Even money - when I can stretch for it.)

The 1Dc is spot on now for the animal it is - in its pricing - for those who already have invested in Canon glass. Am I sorry I bought it when it came out? Not one bit.

Will be using this beast a long, long time . . .

(www.gerstvisuals.com for some moving footage)

[Scott Richard Gerst-privé]

well maybe saying "not one bit" sorry I paid nearly double for it is stretching it. Lol

ok- just happy I have had the opportunity to get to know it this last year and use it for what I needed is more honest....

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Don't think about the prive drop too much, you already had the camera for 2 years, shot with it, spent great times and practised your passion, made friends, gained reputation, and even made money, these are worth 5000$ and I would takr them over waiting for 2015 and buying it now, right? 

 

plus the 1Dc still has a LOONG life in it, it's 4k and we're just beginning the era 4K, so until 2020 where 8k is marketed, you can use the 1DC and deliver high quality 4K standard images. 

 

for those who bought one a couple of days ago for 12000$.... well, OUCH. Read EOSHD prdedictions next time before making a purchase

[Andrew Reid]

Just my 2 cents- do not have an A7S although I am intrigued and would certainly like to try it- 

using 1Dc now since it came out, and had shot with a Scarlet a few times.

the 1Dc is just it's own animal.

I knew nothing- zilch- about making moving pictures (pretty obvious if you look at my technical issues).

I needed a camera that worked with existing glass, could also shoot fashion/ sports/ studio / tolerate weather and used my CF cards.

I cringed at the price but had a lot of Canon glass already.

And I must say: arriving a 10 pm with one or two street lamps, no crew, an actor, a rough concept, and 1 hour:  being able to shoot 28000 ISO for B&W (lower for clean color . . .) simply pulling focus before the take (and once in a blue moon pulling during- what am I thinking . . . ha)- shooting 4K handheld and stabilizing in post to scale to 1080 . . .

I have been able to come up with cool footage for a beginner.  

I watch what Andrew says and I read every review - and then used some equipment, and came to the conclusion that that the 1Dc was "right" for me for a lot of reasons.

But there is simple one thing that is tough to explain where I think the 1Dc may excel compared to the other sub $8k cameras now in 4K (although I am going by Scarlet, prior 5D MkIII and online vimeo's of the newer smaller):

The Picture.

Filmic compared to others. The digital grain on the sensor looks almost organic.  Not exactly like film- but it's own sort of specialness.

And when it comes to cameras, I care about picture more than anything else.  More than anything. (Even money - when I can stretch for it.)

The 1Dc is spot on now for the animal it is - in its pricing - for those who already have invested in Canon glass. Am I sorry I bought it when it came out? Not one bit.

Will be using this beast a long, long time . . .

(www.gerstvisuals.com for some moving footage)

​This is exactly how I feel about the 1D C's image. It is that image I wanted most and it's different. It is like having best attributes of the BMCC, A7S SLOG2 and 5D3 raw in one camera but in 4K. And compared to the BMCC it is far better ergonomically.

Compared to the 5D raw it is more reliable on a shoot.

Compared to the A7S it is 4K internal, that matters a lot.

The image is silky in the blacks like the BMCC. You can raise the blacks so much and there's nothing, I repeat nothing, nasty in them... no crushing, no digital noise, just organic texture and smooth velvety tones.

Canon LOG with the view assist is so easy to work with. Nobody wants to show talent on a shoot the B/W jerky raw playback mode of Magic Lantern or grey SLOG 2.

It's a different beast to the FS7. It is smaller, you throw it in a tiny bag with your lenses and off you go. It is a stills camera, my main one now. I can't use the FS7 as a stills camera and therefore I can't use the FS7 in places where only stills cameras are allowed, like Buddhist temples or in other sensitive situations on location. And who wants to attract the attention of officials on public transport asking for permits because the FS7 makes you look pro? What a hassle.

The GH4, NX1 and A7S all have far more compressed looking blacks and more macro blocking in the shadows.

1D C has a silk like image that is the closest you can get to film right now on digital. It really is up there with the Alexa.

I just shot a music video in anamorphic with it. I lit for ISO 1600, didn't need to touch ISO throughout the shoot. Even here the blacks are like silk, or ISO 200 on GH4 but without the compression and I had 2-3 stops of dynamic range to spare in the highlights. Only the BMCC would have come close but it would have been ISO 400 or noisy, and I would have struggled with the 2.3x crop vs almost full frame on the 1D C. That makes a HUGE difference, even over typical Super 35mm stuff.

[Andrew Reid]

What's more it's completely killed my appetite to upgrade. I've always been restless on other cameras. Hankering for more. With the 1D C I can see myself still using it in 3 years and not really caring about what else has come along by then.

10bit? Meh. I can't tell the difference.

Global shutter? Nice, but not essential. Depends on the shoot.

And beyond 4K resolution, I think is just sheer overkill for everything but large scale stadium or public event screens, outdoors. No way is 8K going to take off indoors, in cinemas or in the home.

14-15 stops dynamic range? Again nice but difference is subtle for most shots. It's rare you have a shot that requires more than 12 stops.

So, hard to see where to go after the 1D C to be honest. I think progress might flatten out in the traditional sense. The emphasis will switch to other things. AI, new focus systems, organic sensors and more nimble lighting & rigging. The image quality pixel peeping wars are almost over.

[Scott Richard Gerst-privé]

Andrew said: 

"The emphasis will switch to other things. AI, new focus systems, organic sensors and more nimble lighting & rigging. The image quality pixel peeping wars are almost over."

I so agree . . . with that and all of the above you wrote.

And Andrew, cannot thank you enough for all of your time, effort, and posts.

You have educated many, many people like myself . . . some of us pretty quiet online and relatively unknown  .  . . either just starting or evolving their trade . . . but your time and effort do NOT go un-noticed. It means an awful lot to those of us who really depend on people like you to help us get the best, use the best, and make the best that we possibly can.

Thank you for all of your effort.

Richard

[FilmMan]

What's more it's completely killed my appetite to upgrade. I've always been restless on other cameras. Hankering for more. With the 1D C I can see myself still using it in 3 years and not really caring about what else has come along by then.

10bit? Meh. I can't tell the difference.

Global shutter? Nice, but not essential. Depends on the shoot.

And beyond 4K resolution, I think is just sheer overkill for everything but large scale stadium or public event screens, outdoors. No way is 8K going to take off indoors, in cinemas or in the home.

14-15 stops dynamic range? Again nice but difference is subtle for most shots. It's rare you have a shot that requires more than 12 stops.

So, hard to see where to go after the 1D C to be honest. I think progress might flatten out in the traditional sense. The emphasis will switch to other things. AI, new focus systems, organic sensors and more nimble lighting & rigging. The image quality pixel peeping wars are almost over.

​My view too. 

I bought the 1DC when it first came out - I chomped down and bit the bullet and paid the premium.  Even though the price has gone down, I have had a few years using it.  With exchange rates, the difference will not be as steep.   It takes time to understand how powerful this camera is.  It is a lot better than most people realize.  Like I have said in the past, when used properly, it is very close to matching film.  Cheers.

[sam]

Speaking of technology switching to other things, shot side by side with fs700 raw (for the 4k hfr) at a skijoring event (ski racing with dogs on a course)  this weekend and I have to say the 1DC was Incredible.   I mounted the 1DC on a DJI Ronin with a Cinemilled adapter on top of a monopod.  I could hoist the monopod over the crowd and direct the camera with a twist of the wrist, or go inverterted and have the 1dc skimming on top of the snow close to the dogs.  The 1DC is light enough that I didn't need any other rigging. (6"2 200lbs though) When I did tire, I could rest the mononopod and once again a slight twist of the monopod gave ultra smooth pans.  Controlled camera functions over a usb controller attached to a Zacuto evf.  Highly mobile with very solid footage.  Focus control was lacking but I stopped down and shot wide as my remote follow focus was tied up on the fs700.  Will definitely use this setup in the future.   

[Simon Bailey]

 

Canon colour science is respected by people like Antony Dod Mantle, so you wanna pick fights with him? Better come armed with the facts...

A7S has aliasing in 4K, way more moire and false detail than the 1D C in 4K.

That comment alone makes it clear you need to do some more research into this and get the basic facts right.

​There is no aliasing in 4K on the A7s. Where are you getting your info?? Its a 1:1 pixel to pixel. No pixel or line skipping.  It only has a little aliasing in 720P 120fps.

[Jimmy]

Frame rates, codec and bit rate are the only major improvements i'd have for the 1DC.

If they launch a 1DC mk II that shot 4K/60fps and 1080p/120fps with 10bit to a good codec... I think that would be my last camera purchase for quite a long time. (Some kind of internal ND filters would be nice too!)

[Simon Bailey]

​but this thread is a 1dc thread so... isn't it what were all mostly talking about here? Also why would you really need 4k over hdmi if you have internal 4k? Dont get me wrong it would be great to have but hows that a deal breaker? A deal breaker for me would having only 4k through hdmi like the a7s has. You need external stuff which is another thing to rig up when setting up and another potential point of failure. 

​Buying a 4K camera that can't feed out 4K is the same as back in the day buying a HD camera that can only output SD. Why would anyone spend $8,000 today on a 3 year old camera that has no high frame rate, can't be recorded externally, soft HD. 

Even if you don't have a need for 4K over HDMI today for that price don't you want, don't you expect, to have it as an option should you want to do it next year or the year after?

[douglaurent]

regarding the original topic:  i already had more than a $4000 price drop on the 1DC, as i bought the camera in january 2013 and had the tax writeoff for it.  the pure list price doesnt mean anything, it's always important when you buy, what you do with it, and what you can write off etc etc.  if you bought a lamborghini countach for 150.000 25 years ago and can now sell it for 400.000, it wasn't an expensive car.

[Simon Bailey]

Yeah, right ok.

Your posts have mentioned it 8 times so far, I just counted

​If you're going to get nasty in a personal way Simon, you know where the door is.

​But not once did I refer to it in the post you quoted me 7 times. 

I didn't get personal first you did when you made a remark about experience. 

In your subsequent posts there was a lot I could have commented on but then you compared the 1DC to an Alexa... That combined with you thinking you don't need more than 12 stops...  Not really any point in discussing this stuff with you. 

I don't particularly have an issue with the 1DC, I think its 3 years old and 4 times the price it should be. But what I object to is you using this site to mislead people who want to learn into solely your thinking. When you ranked the 1DC as No.1 you were quick to find flaws in other cameras but not the 1DC which you just bought.  Not being able to output 4K on HDMI is something people would want to know about. You may not be a journalist but if your going to run a site like this which can affect peoples opinions at least be unbiased.