The Panasonic GH3 - product suggestions for Panasonic

[markm]

The GH2 hacked is either Panasonic not understanding their own technology and have been shown the way by the hackers OR they made the camera to be the way it was for profit reasons. Knowing they could unleash the GH2's potential for little or no extra.

Panasonic can't undo what the hackers have done Nor can they be see to have intentionally held what the camera can do back.

Checkmate then and the only way out is to leave the game.

They are not likely to add all the great extras that would make it a competitor for a £12000 camera. Personally I think they will make a GH3 that will be a slight improvement on the GH2 and bring out an APSC video Camera that will be unhackable.

Whatever they do the GH2 will not progress at least not at the price point Neither will it be seen to not be progressing.

Expecting foul play!

[johnnymossville]

markm,  I wouldn't be quite so hard on Panasonic.  What they have done in an $800 Camera that others couldn't do with a $2500 camera is impressive.  Hacked or Not Hacked.  The lenses, sd cards, batteries, tripod, slider and lights I've purchased with the $1700 left over by not buying a 5DMII had to come from somewhere.

[Asa]

Agree with Johnny, it's more that Panasonic didn't push the hardware because it wasn't necessary, it's designed and marketed as a regular shooter, average consumers wouldn't tell the difference and wouldn't want files taking up the earth in storage space. Even the unhacked 25mb/s look great. Makes sense for Panasonic to leave it there for practicality & reliability reasons for the average consumer.

[christianhubbard]

[quote author=johnnymossville link=topic=865.msg6310#msg6310 date=1340198976]
markm,  I wouldn't be quite so hard on Panasonic.  What they have done in an $800 Camera that others couldn't do with a $2500 camera is impressive.  Hacked or Not Hacked.  The lenses, sd cards, batteries, tripod, slider and lights I've purchased with the $1700 left over by not buying a 5DMII had to come from somewhere.
[/quote]

Except youre going to have to spend that extra money on 4/3s lenses.

[sandro]

I would like a bigger sensor to make it compete in the pictures part too! But I know this won't never happen:(

[johnnymossville]

[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=865.msg6312#msg6312 date=1340201967]

Except youre going to have to spend that extra money on 4/3s lenses.
[/quote]

Yeah I have a few, but I'm also having a great time buying vintage lenses that have some great looks as well.  Why buy new when I can help save the planet by recycling someone else's throwaways. ;-)

Vintage Canon FD lenses look beautiful on the GH2.

[markm]

[quote author=johnnymossville link=topic=865.msg6310#msg6310 date=1340198976]
markm,  I wouldn't be quite so hard on Panasonic.  What they have done in an $800 Camera that others couldn't do with a $2500 camera is impressive.  Hacked or Not Hacked.  The lenses, sd cards, batteries, tripod, slider and lights I've purchased with the $1700 left over by not buying a 5DMII had to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
To be honest I wouldn't have bought the GH2 without the hack! The thing is though is if the technology is already in the camera to be as good as the hack makes it why did they not sell the camera like that.
The answer has to be they crippled it So expecting them to come out with ND filters or the like is not very likely to happen.

Some consumers though may be happy with the GH2 without the hack and for moderate improvements in a new model. However I would say it could be seen as a rip off as the technology is inside and if they tweak it they could make it available but probably wont. Instead they will want to use what we have hacked from the GH2 in higher end cameras at a bigger price. Judging by how they crippled the AF100 with 8 bit out then a MUCH bigger price Possibly similar to the FS100 end.

[johnnymossville]

I look at it this way. If you look at car companies it would be impossible to find a car that you couldn't "hack" into a much better performing car if you know what you are doing.  How many people actually do this.  I like to modify my cars a bit for fun but is it necessary?  nope.  Same goes for the GH2.

Now, Panasonic probably could have opened up it's camera to customization instead of making Vitaly go through the trouble of hacking it,  but then it would have opened them up to all kinds of trouble because you really need fast sd cards to handle the high bitrates it's capable of,  just like you need to be a good driver, need good brakes, and good tires to handle all the power a Mustang GT is capable of when "hacked"

I'm not one to dis companies for their "Greedy" capitalism, because they need to survive first so they can continue to provide us with product.  If we ended up with just Canon left in the dslr video world, what would we be looking at?  hmmm?

[HurtinMinorKey]

Normally I'd tend to be pretty pessimistic here, but I really like Panasonic as a company in general.  I think they are going through a period of trying to re-establish themselves across a bunch of different markets.  They remind me a lot of Hyundai 5-7 years ago. 

[adamwilt]

Simple stuff, mostly software tweaks:

- Allow us to disable too-easily-hit buttons, like DISPLAY on the GH2, which I wind up pushing accidentally almost every time I grasp the camera.

- Allow us to turn off or reduce the excessive edge enhancement in video shooting (actually, a greater range on all the image adjustments would be welcome).

- Full-time manual override in autofocus mode (not just in the instant after autofocusing) would make the camera a lot more usable, especially when shooting video.

- Viewfinder focusing aids, like variable peaking or focus-in-red edging (the variability is very important).

Harder hardware stuff:

- A second control dial (a la the OM-D or the NEX-7, or most of the high-end Nikon and Canon DSLRs) would allow much faster and error-free settings changes since there wouldn't be the modal push-to-change behavior of the single dial.

- Move the EVF to the corner, like the NEX-7, so (a) we won't have to mash our noses against the LCD, (b) we could more easily operate rear-panel controls with our eye at the finder, and (c) the height of the camera body could be reduced, though it might wind up wider.

- 3.5mm mic jack! Headphone jack! *STANDARD* USB jack!

Hey, a fellow can dream...

[markm]

One thing I'd REALLY really like is HDMI output prefer 10 but know its going to be 8 bit

The real biggies for me are
1) A bigger crop mode that covers super 16mm lenses better.
2) [color=blue][font=trebuchet ms][b]HDMI out for crop mode.[/b][/font][/color] ;D

That with Vitaliy hacks and Lovely Jubbly  :)

[pdc]

Hope they are listening Andrew!  They should, as it is really you and Vitaly who have put the GH series on the map.  Of course, it sure helped to have such a capable camera from a company with considerable depth in video, despite their best efforts to reign in the horses so they could sell a product most of us can't afford.  Trust the lesson has been learned.

[PAVP]

DR is a huge issue IMO.  We've got Resolution, but if they could squeeze more out of the way this camera handles highlights and lowlight that would be big.  On top of that a solid 4:2:2 and 60p don't sound too out of the question.

More than this what I think would also help a lot is much finer picture profile adjustments and a wider range.  Why they limited it to a very small +/- 2 is hard to understand.  Why not allow as much picture adjustment as possible?  Isn't this afterall an enthusiast camera?  More adjustment would seem to fit the idea of what users would be looking for.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=pdc link=topic=865.msg6323#msg6323 date=1340222314]
Hope they are listening Andrew!  They should, as it is really you and Vitaly who have put the GH series on the map.  Of course, it sure helped to have such a capable camera from a company with considerable depth in video, despite their best efforts to reign in the horses so they could sell a product most of us can't afford.  Trust the lesson has been learned.
[/quote]

They're definitely listening. They rely on us in a way, to drive the product forwards.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=PAVP link=topic=865.msg6326#msg6326 date=1340225093]
DR is a huge issue IMO.  We've got Resolution, but if they could squeeze more out of the way this camera handles highlights and lowlight that would be big.  On top of that a solid 4:2:2 and 60p don't sound too out of the question.

More than this what I think would also help a lot is much finer picture profile adjustments and a wider range.  Why they limited it to a very small +/- 2 is hard to understand.  Why not allow as much picture adjustment as possible?  Isn't this afterall an enthusiast camera?  More adjustment would seem to fit the idea of what users would be looking for.
[/quote]

I think the sampling of the sensor can be changed to sacrifice a bit of resolution for dynamic range and colour info. Be careful of the Mac AVCHD bug though - GH2 dynamic range in video mode with the hack actually far exceeds the 5D Mark III in video mode when processed correctly (with 5DToRGB) and not edited natively.

I'd like to see a H.264 MP4 mode in place of MJPEG. Just to get away from AVCHD.

[MatthewP]

Hmm, though the GH2's DR isn't RED RAW, it's much better than most DSLRs out there... better than any of the Canons, I'd say (or not far north or south, either way).

Take a look at these screen grabs... if you need more DR then I don't know what you're shooting, lol.  :P

[jakerockwell]

We shoot concerts with 6 GH2s.  We keep all cameras rolling for upwards of 2 hours at a time.  When we apply the hacks, we can increase the ISO but increasing the bit rate causes the cameras to crash after a while.  So, Id like the GH3s to maintain the 'unlimited' recording time while increasing the bit rate.  1080p out through HDMI would also be great but we are dependent on Black Magic switch which doesn't support 1080p yet (a rep at NAB made me think they'd upgrade to 1080p after the new BlackMagic cameras come out).  Ive got a camera operator who always complains about DSLRs rolling shutter but I dont see it - but if Panasonic could fix that to quiet my camera guy, then great.

[eosjames]

Excellent roundup. I've been looking forward to the GH3 more then any other cam.
I really want that 1080/60--720/120. If they can keep the price under 1K w/weather-sealing, that would
be very impressive. I am also waiting for the next version of the 7-14 w/threads....please.

[Orangenz]

Wasn't there a release date hinted at in September/October? In which case there isn't enough time to act on any suggestions received now?

[jrappold]

Amateur here in USA, so a different perspective from most of you. I've had my GH2 for a year. My other DSLR is a Nikon D90. I want to be able to replace the D90 with the GH3. I shoot stills and vid about equally. Stills IQ definitely needs improvement, as does the JPEG rendering engine. I only shoot RAW for special occasions.

Of course, really satisfied with video both normal and hacked. Looking forward to 1080 60P.

Ergonomically, maybe just a smidge larger. When I'm using the EVF, instead of pressing the Fn2 button I constantly hit the edge of the LCD. I've even practiced trying to get it right to no avail. If those keys could only be moved slightly more to the right. Must keep the fully articulating LCD.

Better capacity battery preferred rather than an additional grip.

I use the grid a LOT, because it really helps me concentrate on composition. It needs to be more pronounced, as it's difficult to view in bright light. Also, a grid to help me compose for 2:35 when I want to crop to 1920x810. I'll never be able to afford anamorphic stuff.

More color/gamma profiles with more adjustment latitude.

I'm not a megapixel whore, so  the multi-aspect with ETC at 18mp is great. A new sensor only needs to improve on that.

Built-in USEFUL intervalometer and HDR modes. I would use these a lot, and neither would preclude me from using my hardware intervalometer or bracketing shots for HDR if I want to do further post processing.

3.5mm jack, and agree with Andrew on MP4 instead of MJPEG.

Last, I don't get the hate for AVCHD. The directory structure isn't rocket science, and you can get to your files in just a few clicks. And yes, I copy the PRIVATE folder to optical disc as my 2nd backup. Pop it in my PS3 blu-ray player, and can view the files on my HDTV and use a remote control to navigate. I can also plug the SDHC card into the PS3 and do the same thing.

Seems to me, rather than bitching about a format that is now around 4 years old, you should complain to the maker of your NLE for support. I'm on the PC side and can directly import the files without having to create any sort of intermediary file.